Ex Christian?

[JWayne]

Question: "Is there such a thing as an ex-Christian?"

This is a question for which there is definitely a clear and explicit biblical answer.

1 John 2:19 declares, They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” This Scripture makes it abundantly clear—there is no such thing as an ex-Christian. If a person is truly a Christian, he/she will never depart from the faith, for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. If a person who claimed to be a Christian denies the faith, he/she was not truly a Christian. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us…their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” No, there is truly no such thing as an ex-Christian.

GotQuestions.org

 

[ImmanuelWithUs]

Very nice...from GotQuestions.org? I received that in an email today and, of course, I could not agree more. After He saves us, He keeps and sustains us. No one can pluck us from His hands.

 

[JWayne]

Very nice...from GotQuestions.org?

Yes it is, I'm sorry I forgot that [very important] tidbit of info. I will go back and add the link now that I have my 50 posts.

 

[redfox]

I agree with what you say, although I have always struggled to understand Hebrews 6:4-6 in light of that.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

This suggests that there are people who have been Christians and have fallen away....

What do you think??

 

[JWayne]

To me these are backsliders (if they fall away), and (to be brought back to repentance,)

We as Christians sin every day of our lives because we are human, and we must seek repentance for the sin we commit. We are not perfect and we will fall many times before we are taken home to be with God. We sould repent everyday, for we sin everyday.

Let's look at the context of the rest of the chapter...

Chapter 6
1 Therefore leaving the principlesa of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them byb whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. 10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. 13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, 14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it byc an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[jiggyfly]

One thing to be considered in this line of reasoning is the vast differences between the body of Christ (ekklesia) and the christian religious institution (church). One has a spiritual origin and the other has a carnal origin. One you can join the other you must be born into it.

 

[Coconut]

Question: "Is there such a thing as an ex-Christian?"

This is a question for which there is definitely a clear and explicit biblical answer.

1 John 2:19 declares, They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” This Scripture makes it abundantly clear—there is no such thing as an ex-Christian. If a person is truly a Christian, he/she will never depart from the faith, for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. If a person who claimed to be a Christian denies the faith, he/she was not truly a Christian. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us…their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” No, there is truly no such thing as an ex-Christian.

GotQuestions.org

I do not agree with the conclusion here.

First because the scripture text used, sounds pretty final and clear cut quoted by itself. Put it back into the context of which it was written..then keep reading.

1Jn 2:27 But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ.
1Jn 2:28 Yes, my children, remain in union with him, so that when he appears we may be full of courage and need not hide in shame from him on the Day he comes.

That tells me it is certainly possible to have union with Christ, and then leave that union.

Secondly, if there are no prodigals, who am I?


The theological world is full of "clear and explicit biblical answers" that were pulled out of the context in which they were written.

Context context context.

 

[JWayne]

I can appreciate your thoughts, but I firmly believe that one can not lose their salvation.

I do not see how the verses your offered, change 1 John 2:19 in any manner. What happens so many times is our own interpretations are added to fit our own beliefs.

If what you are claiming is true then that would lead us to believe that the Word, contradicts itself, which we all know is not possible. We as humans place too many what-ifs into the word.

If the scripture offered changes the one I gave then, John 3:16 becomes null and void, but again, God's Word in no manner contradicts is self.

I honestly believe that if one is a Christian, one is for eternity. If there is a such thing as an Ex-Christian, it is in name only, for they were never a true Christian.

 

[Coconut]

Interesting change of subject JWayne ...the OP is about the term ex-christian, not eternal security...unless that was an attempt at switch and bait, or bait and switch...


Firmly believing ...and honestly believing...and suggesting anyone who does`nt agree with your belief is using their own interpretation to fit their own belief...(and you are exempt to doing such a thing)...is trumpeting "belief" over the integrity of scripture...

It appears this is just mincing over words...but i`ll play along...

If it is possible for one to not remain in union with Christ...(no longer united to Christ) ...is he/she yet still with Christ?

or

If one is a Christian (follower of Christ) and is no longer following Him...is he/she yet still following Him?

There seems to be plenty of room for an "ex" in scripture, whether anybody likes the idea of an "ex" or not ...


If you want to discuss "losing salvation"...

How does this particular verse fit into your belief?

Mat 24:13

(ASV) But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

(BBE) But he who goes through to the end will get salvation.

(CEV) But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved.

(ESV) But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

(GNB) But whoever holds out to the end will be saved.

(ISV) But the person who endures to the end will be saved.

(KJVA) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

or this one:

1Th 5:9

(ASV) For God appointed us not into wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

(BBE) For God's purpose for us is not wrath, but salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

(CEV) God doesn't intend to punish us, but wants us to be saved by our Lord Jesus Christ.

(ESV) For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

(GNB) God did not choose us to suffer his anger, but to possess salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

(ISV) For God has not destined us for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

(KJVA) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

(the context does`nt change the meaning of either of those verses)

I cant seem to get my mind around "losing" anything I have obtained yet...

If what you are claiming is true then that would lead us to believe that the Word, contradicts itself, which we all know is not possible. We as humans place too many what-ifs into the word.

I agree....and right back at cha :wink:

 

[Trishann]

Definitely is possible, but as long as there is a new day, it is possible one can repent of turning away from God and God will forgive them.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[JWayne]

It is important to distinguish between a true Christian and an “in name only” Christian.

A true Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

A true Christian is a person who understands what the Bible says about sin, sin’s penalty, who Jesus is, what Jesus did for us, and how that provides for the forgiveness of sin.

A true Christian is a person who has received Jesus Christ as personal Savior, has been made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), and is progressively being transformed into the image of Christ.

A true Christian is a person who is kept a Christian by the power of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:13, 30; 2 Corinthians 1:22). This true Christian can never become an ex-Christian.

No one who has truly and fully trusted in Christ as Savior could ever deny Him.

No one who truly comprehends the evil of sin, the terror of sin’s consequences, the love of Christ, and the grace and mercy of God, could ever turn back from the Christian faith.

There are many in this world who claim to be Christians, but are not.

Being a Christian does not mean being an American or having white skin.

Being a Christian does not mean recognizing that Jesus was a great teacher or even seeking to follow His teachings.

Being a Christian means being a “little Christ” (the meaning of the word Christian) and a servant of Christ.

There are people who have had some connection to a “Christian” church and then later renounced that connection.

There are people who have “tasted” and “sampled” Jesus Christ, without ever actually receiving Him as Savior.

However, there is no such thing as true ex-Christian.

A true Christian will never, and could never, renounce the faith. Any person who claimed to be a Christian, but later rejects the Christian faith, was never truly a Christian.

 

[Trishann]

Yes if they continue to "abide" in Jesus Christ.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[Coconut]

A true Christian will never, and could never, renounce the faith. Any person who claimed to be a Christian, but later rejects the Christian faith, was never truly a Christian.

Do you have any Scripture to back up that statement?

These Scriptures contradict you:

GNB Rom 11:22 Here we see how kind and how severe God is. He is severe toward those who have fallen, but kind to you---if you continue in his kindness. But if you do not, you too will be broken off.

2Pe 2:15 They have left the straight path and have lost their way; they have followed the path taken by Balaam son of Beor, who loved the money he would get for doing wrong and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.


2Pe 2:21 It would have been much better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than to know it and then turn away from the sacred command that was given them.

 

[JWayne]

I am not getting into an argument with you. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Why do you insist on using God's word to contradict itself. As you well said your self, It does not. So the only differences here are those of our own interpreations.

I respect that you have your opinions and I expect the same in return.

 

[JWayne]

Acts 2:21
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.

Mark 16:
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.




John 10:
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Acts 16:30,31
30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”



1 John 2:25
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Titus 1:2
2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began

1 John 5:9, 20
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Becoming a Christian is only through acceptance of Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior, and once accepted, the fact never changes that we are Christian now and forever, therefore, how could there be such a thing as an ex-Christian? Salvation is everlasting, eternal, so just is being a Christian.

John 3:1-3
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Galatians 4:4,5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 whois the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Coconut]

Becoming a Christian is only through acceptance of Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior, and once accepted, the fact never changes that we are Christian now and forever, therefore, how could there be such a thing as an ex-Christian? Salvation is everlasting, eternal, so just is being a Christian.

The scripture you have offered speaks of the promise of salvation, but where does any of those same scriptures say there can be no turning back? The scripture I`ve posted state very clearly that it is possible to turn back from following Christ, so which is it?

For some strange reason, when you quote the scripture, your added interpretation is fact, and when I quote it, i`m trying to make Gods Word contradict itself. Yet the scriptures i`m posting show the contradiction to your interpretation, (without any added interpretation from me) and you refuse to acknowledge them.

ESV Heb 10:35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
Heb 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Heb 10:37 For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
Heb 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[JWayne]

Life goes own. Still opinion vs opinion, no need to further discuss a stalemate issue. Let go and Let God.

 

[carlos marquez]

You cant loose something you never had,
you are either in or your out.
You can't force somebody to be saved
God does the drawing
and the keeping
so why cant we all
just keep
blieving.
God came to save,not confuse
God knows those that are His
and no theological arguement
or opinion can change that.

 

[carlos marquez]

Don't take the amazing out of the grace.
Let's face it, even yourse and my desire to
to dive into the things of God come from
Him.
So,if He really saved us,then that means
He intends to keep us,we are His babies.
And if you know of anyone who has
walked away from his/her faith,then I
am of the opinion,that we should go
shasing after them ,to be sure their
not runaway sheep.
When Jesus said,I give them eternal
life,He meant,eternal,always,forever.
And nothing can snatch us out of
His hands.
Philippians 2:13.
[Not in your own strength]
for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you
[energizing and creating in you the power and desire],both
to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction
and delight.

Im only saved because of His keeping power,and those
whome He chose He also foreknew.God is not shocked
if someone quits christianity and starts his own religion
Thats why John says,they depart to show us their not
of us.

 

[Gracealone]

Heb 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. <!-- / message --> <!-- sig -->

Dear coconut, don't you see little one that the very vrs. you have posted says we are not of those who shrink back, my Bible says ,draw back, unto perdition, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The first part of the chapter clearly says in vrs. :14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.