Eternal Security

Eric E Stahl · Jan 22, 2012

gdemoss · Jan 22, 2012

Eternal Security

If a person asks Jesus to come into their heart and asks God to forgive their sins and tells others

that they have accepted Jesus as Lord because He died for their sins and rose from the grave,

that person is saved from going to hell when they die.

You have erred from the beginning. This is false teaching.

But what happens if that person sins later

in life?

Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. KJV

Once you are saved God imputes Jesus righteousness to you forever and will never impute or charge sin to you again.

The problem you face with your ideas is the when it is imputed part.

Rom 7:19-20

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. KJV

Paul tells us that it is not you, the spirit, that sins but you the old nature and flesh, that is charged

with the sin.

Chapter 7 of Romans must be understood within the context of the first 6 chapters of the letter. It in no way is giving you license to sin and blame it on your flesh. You err.

1 Cor 15:50-54

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. KJV

For those who are in the kingdom and do not offend will this take place.

1 Cor 3:10-15

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KJV

Notice in verse 15, that even if you lose all your rewards you yourself will go to heaven and not hell.

Here you have made a grave error in your exegesis of the text that is common. Lets look at the complete passage.

<< 1 Corinthians 3 >>
King James Version
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Paul begins by explaining to these believers that they are yet carnal. To be carnally minded is death. To be carnal is to walk in the flesh which leads to eternal death. This whole epistle is a grave warning to the Corinthian believers that they are not going to make it if they don't repent. See 2 Corinthians "terrify you by letters" for understanding.

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Paul distinctly separates himself and Apollos from the Corinthian believers here. They are the ones who are fellow laborers with God. The Corinthians are the product. They are the temple in this instance. Paul and Apollos are the builders.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It is quickly pointed out that Jesus Christ is the foundation of the temple of God. Other believers are merely built upon that foundation into a holy temple. But there will be those that are gold, silver and precious stones which are worthy and others that are wood, hay and stubble which shall be burnt up. The builder who is the fellow worker with God is saved as he himself is gold or silver but the wood, hay and stubble that he produced in the gospel is destroyed. He shall suffer loss because he has put so much care and time into people who end up in hell. To love someone so deeply and watch them be destroyed will be devastating to the one who worked to father them in the gospel.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This final warning is clear. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

More about gold and silver, wood and hay:

2 Timothy 2 sheds light upon this.

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Paul begins by explaining the effects of false doctrine upon Gods people. They are subverted. He instructs us to study so that others will see us as one that God himself would approve of as we divide the word of truth. He states that false doctrine eats as a cancer. The end result is that God knows according to a man's works who is his. His do not partake in iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Continuing his theme on heresy, Paul declares that the church is to be full of different vessels. Some unto honor and some unto dishonor. We are instructed to rid ourselves of the false doctrine that we may be useful to God as a vessel of honor.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Finally he caps it off with instruction about continuing in meekness and explaining these truths to others that they might be given repentance by God and have life who are ensnared by the devil in heresy.

According to Galatians 5, heresy is a work of the flesh. It can be identified by the trademark that it always seems to allow the believer to error in his ways without fear of final condemnation by God. Those who follow it will not enter into the kingdom of God. Teaching others that they have nothing to worry about when they sin as a Christian is heresy. Their eternal security is directly tied to their faith that produces works that are acceptable to God and are not works of the flesh. Many Christians today are but carnally minded and will, in the end, be rejected by Christ for being workers of iniquity who did not resist sin unto blood or even unto death but instead chose to believe that God has overlooked all of their sin.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

judge not · Jan 22, 2012

Hebrews 6:4-6 - " For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy spirit..........if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance........"
the writer of the Book of Hebrews is stating that loss of salvation is a very real possibility even after receiving the Holy Spirit.
Beware of those that say once you have received the HS you cannot lose salvation.
Also nowhere in the Bible are we promised to go to Heaven- the Gospel of Jesus preaches His kingdom is to be here on earth out of Jerusalem. as the Bible teaches nobody has ascended to heaven so far and our promise from Jesus is to rule on earth with Him.
Man has interpreted clear teachings from God into misconceptions that are leading believers down the wrong path.
Prove all things from the Bible itself.

Donnie Ducati · Jan 22, 2012

Here we go again...............................:regret-animated:

jari · Jan 22, 2012

judge not said:
Hebrews 6:4-6 - " For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy spirit..........if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance........"
the writer of the Book of Hebrews is stating that loss of salvation is a very real possibility even after receiving the Holy Spirit.

Can I ask you a question? A question that no one of heb 6 posters has been able to answer yet.
The question is: What kind of Christian is impossible to be renewed to repentance?

i think christians can always repent. But correct me if i'm wrong.

it really stresses my mind to think why some one cannot repent?

if you don't have the answer.. the i hope you understand it doesnt talk of christians who HAVE the holy spirit but who have only TASTED it.
..and because when they fall from faith there's no way to convince them better if they truly reject Holy spirit. Thinking that they did no experience HS of grace but of works and thus fall away to recrucifying son of God afresh for them self.

gbu

judge not · Jan 22, 2012

If it is impossible for a saved person to fall from a right standing with God, then he need not be concerned about falling-yet Paul warns " Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest HE FALL " 1 Cor 10:12
Peter warns us also " Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, Fall from your own stedfastness " 11 Peter 3:17
Peter and Paul was not speaking to people who had no knowledge of salvation. They were converted members of God's church.
There are more warnings than I can put in here right now.
But on the positive side there are more words of assurance of salvation than warnings.
we lose out when we choose to do so. We can return unto repentance at any time if we fall away-God doesn't want anyone to perish and doesn't turn anyone away if truly sorry

jari · Jan 22, 2012

judge not said:
If it is impossible for a saved person to fall from a right standing with God, then he need not be concerned about falling-yet Paul warns " Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest HE FALL " 1 Cor 10:12
Peter warns us also " Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, Fall from your own stedfastness " 11 Peter 3:17
Peter and Paul was not speaking to people who had no knowledge of salvation. They were converted members of God's church.
There are more warnings than I can put in here right now.
But on the positive side there are more words of assurance of salvation than warnings.
we lose out when we choose to do so. We can return unto repentance at any time if we fall away-God doesn't want anyone to perish and doesn't turn anyone away if truly sorry

brother falling and falling away are two completely different things.
Other one is falling to sin and falling from steadfastness.
Other one in hebrews is leaving the right kind of faith and thus fall away back to the jewish law and sacrafices.

most often in the bible fall means committing a sin. But in hebrews the people are completely giving up God because they dont believe the Holy spirit came because of God's love but they think they need to do something to be justified and fall away - to do so.

judge not · Jan 22, 2012

If a person could not resist the power of grace drawing him to the faith then surely grace would not allow him to depart from the faith once he arrived - yet, Paul warned of Apostasy- " Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the Latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils " 1Tim 4:1
Some people will try to explain the meaning of scripture, but when the Apostles use plain ordinary language in order to convey the truth as clearly as possible we should have no difficulty in understanding the truth of the matter.

David777 · Jan 22, 2012

Hello Jari.

My brother in Christ, this pains me no end.

This is what you said;

Can I ask you a question? A question that no one of heb 6 posters has been able to answer yet.
The question is: What kind of Christian is impossible to be renewed to repentance?

There is and has only ever been one definition for "Christian".

A person who believes in Jesus Christ.

That is the only definition that I can find Jari. I answered your question, you can no longer make that claim.

As for "falling": verb, to drop or come down freely.

Let's look at the full verse and not the edited one.

Hebrews 6:4 (NKJV)

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

So, it is not difficult to see that fall means to fall from a position or even a height. This is the meaning and it is clear.

They were enlightened Jari.

They had the Holy Spirit.

They were once repentant.

Look and read the verses.

There is no doubt they were formerly Christian.

What possible other conclusion could be gained from these verses?

jari · Jan 23, 2012

David777 said:
They had the Holy Spirit.

it doesnt say they did. they had become partakers.

that's the problem.

And i think its absurd to say some christian cannot be made to repent.

if you read the whole hebrews the writer was actually saying how Jesus is one time sacrafice for us.And what they do? sacrafice him again to them self - and put Him to open shame.

i really dont understand the open shame part and unable repent. only possibility to me is that they never had the faith.

jari · Jan 23, 2012

judge not said:
If a person could not resist the power of grace drawing him to the faith then surely grace would not allow him to depart from the faith once he arrived - yet, Paul warned of Apostasy- " Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the Latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils " 1Tim 4:1
Some people will try to explain the meaning of scripture, but when the Apostles use plain ordinary language in order to convey the truth as clearly as possible we should have no difficulty in understanding the truth of the matter.

Yes but John says Born again christians dont "leave":

1Jn 2:18-19 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

So these people were too first believers, then they become anti christs.

David777 · Jan 23, 2012

Hello Jari.

The definition of partake: to take part in or experience something along with others.

Hebrews 6:4 is straight forward, and clear.

You want to provide another definition for Christian.

Oh Jari, they did have faith, they did partake.

That is what they fell from, please Jari.

"they crucify again for themselves the Son of God"

Are you saying that they did not crucify Jesus the first time.

What is it you are trying to say??

That is impossible, you are high and dry on this one Jari.

David777 · Jan 23, 2012

yo.

How Jari would it be possible to fall away?

What a difficult question that appears to be at first.

The answer is very simple;

"Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." (Acts 7:51)

Resisting the Holy Spirit Jari, this is what scripture says.

In fact, you will find this phenomenon all through the Christian world.

Jari, tell me you have never resisted the Holy Spirit!

jari · Jan 23, 2012

David777 said:
How Jari would it be possible to fall away?

What a difficult question that appears to be at first.

The answer is very simple;

"Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." (Acts 7:51)

Resisting the Holy Spirit Jari, this is what scripture says.

In fact, you will find this phenomenon all through the Christian world.

Jari, tell me you have never resisted the Holy Spirit!

the people in hebrews didnt resist they just fell away...

jari · Jan 23, 2012

David777 said:
The definition of partake: to take part in or experience something along with others.

Hebrews 6:4 is straight forward, and clear.

You want to provide another definition for Christian.

Oh Jari, they did have faith, they did partake.

That is what they fell from, please Jari.

yes partakers, not had the Holy spirit in them.

this scripture came in mind:

1Co 10:1-5 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

They all too tasted Holy spirit.. But God was not well pleased with them.

due to lack of faith.

"they crucify again for themselves the Son of God"

Are you saying that they did not crucify Jesus the first time.

What is it you are trying to say??

That is impossible, you are high and dry on this one Jari.

no one crucifies Jesus He was already crucified and rose again. But they crucify over again... whats up with that? Its not hard to imagine it puts christ in open shame when people seemingly recrucify Him to them self, afresh.
they must have held assembly like jewish do when they symbolically recrucify Him... the passover lamb.

David777 · Jan 23, 2012

Again Jari.

Is this your answer Jari?

the people in hebrews didnt resist they just fell away...

Will you stick with this answer or will you change your mind?

jari · Jan 23, 2012

David777 said:
Is this your answer Jari?

the people in hebrews didnt resist they just fell away...

Will you stick with this answer or will you change your mind?

two different concepts there David...... those acts vs heb verses

David777 · Jan 23, 2012

....

Galations 6:8 (NASB)
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

What possible profit would sowing to the Spirit derive?

Is it not true that the Hebrews who fell away were not doing the above.

They were resisting the call of Jesus Christ.

They were not responding to God's invitation were they, Jari.

It is not as though God was failing them.

Their lamps had gone out, extinguished.

David777 · Jan 23, 2012

Hello Jari.

I was just reading something I thought I might post here.

It’s very interesting that on every point on which CMI disagrees with much of modern Christendom, Calvin took our side. For example, Calvin believed that:

The earth is ‘young’:
‘They will not refrain from guffaws when they are informed that but little more than five thousand years have passed since the creation of the universe.’

Why would someone be concerned with how old the Earth is.

What difference does it make in the end how old it is.

John Calvin what were you thinking!

Eric E Stahl · Jan 23, 2012

Always owned by Jesus!

Romans 4:8

It is not possible to be lost because God will not charge your spirit with sin after you have accepted Jesus into your heart

If you own a dog but it runs away, you still own the dog.

Christians are bought with a price and we belong to Jesus.

We can not do anything to not be owned by Jesus.

Welcome!

Eternal Security

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