End times doctrines

[Mark of Faith]

Hi all,

I am engaged in a ministry that focusses on the erosion of civil liberties (primarily in the UK), and I was led when setting this up to tie the developments in national and world politics with the formation of the end times Babylon.

So, I wanted to start this thread to discuss the various end times prophecies contained throughout the Bible (NOT just Revelation).

Firstly, let me start with some things that I am convinced on (feel free to discuss these, yet I am sure on them):

1. During the final period of time, there will be a One World Totalitarian State. This is generally called "Political Babylon", and is represented in Revelation as the "beast" with seven heads and ten horns. This will be the seat of the anti-Christ. Further insight into this is given in Daniel.

2. There will be a One World Church, which shall be false (i.e. it will not be the Body of Christ, but rather a counterfeit church deceiving the people of the earth). I firmly believe that this will be the Romanist church. This is the "*****" that sits on the beast. It will compromise its beliefs to influence (and be influenced) by the "beast". This is generally called "Ecclesiastical Babylon".

3. There will, once these two Babylonian structures are fully formed, be a time of severe and great persecution of true Christians, on a scale that is unprecedented in history.

Now, there are some things that I have views on, but cannot say that I have revelation about.

The first is the Rapture. I do believe Scripture says that when Christ returns, we shall meet with Him in the clouds. But will this be pre-, mid- or post-Tribulation?
One thing I am convinced on concerning this, is that the doctrine of a "secret rapture" is wholly false and contrary to Jesus' own teaching regarding His return.

The second is again regarding timing. I believe that we are fast approaching the "final act", as it were, but are not yet in the time of tribulation. One thing the Bible is clear about is that Christ's return will come suddenly and without warning (so to all, anyone who says He will come on such or such a date, or in such or such a year, is deceived and deceiving). Yet my question is can we take world events to suggest an approaching culmination of time?

Okay, that's enough for one post.

Thoughts and input welcomed.

Mark.

 

[Brother Mike]

Glory to God

Well some thoughts.......

there will be a One World Totalitarian State.

I am not sure Satan can pull this one off. We are not clear where the United states is in all this. The Anti-Christ points to a European Rule.
There is also a issue with the Muslim Nations that Satan is going to have to deal with. Satan has started a lot of programs that are going to bit him in the butt during the time the Anti-Christ is trying to gain power. The whole thing is not going to go very well for him. It will be his biggest failure.

The first is the Rapture. I do believe Scripture says that when Christ returns, we shall meet with Him in the clouds. But will this be pre-, mid- or post-Tribulation?

Well this will cause many post and a long thread..............
Common sense will tell us that We the church have to leave. We have authority over all demonic spirits in the name of Jesus and that won't change. God has to get us out of the way, or Satan will not be able to operate. People that have not cast out a devil, or understand the power and gifts of the Holy Ghost won't get it. There is a part of the body of Christ that do walk in extreme faith with a awesome anointing that Satan will not be able to operate in. So, we have to go before it all hits the fan.

Yet my question is can we take world events to suggest an approaching culmination of time?

Well, when the Gospel is preached all over the World and that temple is set up then the end comes. I am not sure were going to be here when that happens. One things for sure, before Jesus comes to take the church, those than know and listen to the Holy Ghost will know what season that will be.

Hilton Sutton has some awesome books on the End time events. He goes through each scripture very carefully. I would suggest checking it out.

Bible Prophecy, Hilton Sutton World Ministries

Be blessed and Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Boanerges]

Biblically speaking the anti-christ will be at war with other humans so while his control will be extensive it will not be complete.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

I am a pan trib man. I will wait and see how it pans out! Pre-Trib would be cool but if He leaves us here till the end we will not suffer His wrath with the world and He will be glorified through us.

Inside of 30 years Muslims will dominate the populations of all of Europe and in fact most of the globe. They are out reproducing most other groups (having kids) by about 6 to 1 and have recently surpassed the Catholic Church as the largest religious group on the planet.These could be the Kings of the East?? Their religion is certainly anti-christ in many aspects.

 

[Carico]

The first is the Rapture. I do believe Scripture says that when Christ returns, we shall meet with Him in the clouds. But will this be pre-, mid- or post-Tribulation?
One thing I am convinced on concerning this, is that the doctrine of a "secret rapture" is wholly false and contrary to Jesus' own teaching regarding His return.

Jesus tells us clearly in MT. 24 what the time line of the rapture is. "Immediately after those days..." But I think that many Christians want to indulge in wishful thinking so they ignore that passage and claim that they will be raptured out of the world before the trib. Scripture says no.

 

[Mark of Faith]

Some very interesting points.

Brother Mike:

I am not sure Satan can pull this one off. We are not clear where the United states is in all this. The Anti-Christ points to a European Rule.
There is also a issue with the Muslim Nations that Satan is going to have to deal with. Satan has started a lot of programs that are going to bit him in the butt during the time the Anti-Christ is trying to gain power. The whole thing is not going to go very well for him. It will be his biggest failure.

An interesting point, yet I would point to the "Image of the Beast" in that all who will not bow to it will be put to death. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that some will escape attention, yet that the anti-Christ will have the power to put all to death suggests a One World State.

I will also quickly make one other point (will reply in more detail soon). The Power to resist the anti-Christ can only come from Jesus. That some will refuse to bow to the "image" suggests that there will still be a True Church present. (Linking to Carico's point.)

Mark.

 

[Brother Mike]

um.... Ok......

Carico Jesus is Talking to the Jews. There will be 144,000 anointed by God to preach the Word of Truth. (The elect)

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This event far outweighs what happened during the Tribulation. Satan's fire from the sky, and all his weak power is not compared to God removing the very stars.

Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
This is the Lords Second coming. This one event is where men's hearts fail them. The Lord is also seen world wide coming in the clouds.

This all happens after Satan and his Anti-Christ had a shot at taking over.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until [c] he who restrains is taken out of the way.


The church must be removed before the Anti-Christ is revealed. Then we must wait until Satan is done with his goofy work and we come back with the Lord.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Satan can not operate if the Church who has all authority over him is still on the earth. It would not even be fair.

However, Like I said. If you don't understand the anointing or the Authority of a child of God, and believe in going though the tribulation, then you are still told not to be shaken in mind or even troubled by the tribulation period. So, it's not a issue in the first place.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Boanerges]

Satan can not operate if the Church who has all authority over him is still on the earth. It would not even be fair.

Hmm, sadly he seems pretty busy right now and the church is indeed on earth at the present.

 

[Brother Mike]

Satan's operation

Yes Boanerges, He is operating on earth, but it's because of the Chruch and prayer for those in power "So things go well with us"

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

If it were not for the Church and the many Churches that lift up the nations to God, then the planet would have been cooked by now.
This scripture will never fail, God's word can not fail. Thats why we have to leave before the Anti-Christ is revealed.

Mark of Faith:

An interesting point, yet I would point to the "Image of the Beast" in that all who will not bow to it will be put to death. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that some will escape attention, yet that the anti-Christ will have the power to put all to death suggests a One World State.

Remember that not the whole earth is effected by the Tribulation. I traded the Forex market. (U.S dollar V.S Euro's for example) What I can see is a big collapse of the U.S dollar as the Euro is getting stronger and stronger. China feels that their currency should get more recognition and is discussed a lot in the Markets. Right now the Japanese Yen is heavily traded and China thinks that should all change. The complete collaspe of the United States ecomony (Which looks like out White house is going to accomplish that goal.) Could lead to this world market. The issue is that China will never buy into that and may see an military advantage when/ if this happens.

Satan will have to deal with China, Russia and the Muslim nations. If We the Church are taken (I am pretty sure thats the case.) then there would be nothing holding the United States together. (LOT's as in Sodom) This would make a way for the U.S to also be subject to the Anti-Christ and money system.

I have to step out of this. I have been in way to many threads about Rapture or no Rapture. It did not get solved in those threads and I doubt one more on it will solve it.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Mark of Faith]

Just a quick word to you Mike, then off you go.

Brother Mike,

I fully understand your reasons for excusing yourself from this thread, but please permit a response to a couple of your points:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I agree that these verses tend to suggest a pre-tribulation rapture. In verse 3, the term "falling away" may in fact refer to the rapture (and not widespread apostasy as is often assumed). I can't, off-hand, remember the original Greek in this verse, but I am assured that it means a removal, and not necessarily apostasy.
In addition, Jesus' own teaching on His return mentions that "one will be taken and the other left" in each instance. These clearly shows that His return for His saints is before the final and total culmination of time.

Yet, I agree with Boanerges:

Boanerges Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Mike
Satan can not operate if the Church who has all authority over him is still on the earth. It would not even be fair.

Hmm, sadly he seems pretty busy right now and the church is indeed on earth at the present.

And would also, in your references to "Satan dealing with China, Russia, Islam etc.", point out that these are already under his authority. That doesn't detract from God's Supreme Authority. If God says something must happen, it will, whatever protestations the devil may make.

Now, unless there are further insights into the Rapture, I would like to focus on the extent of the anti-Christian rule. I believe that this will be world wide, in an "official" capacity, with those who belong to God (whether the believing Jews or the True Church, depending on your pre, post trib rapture beliefs) being the only ones not under the devil's sway (which in fact is how it is now in these pre-trib days).

Yet Brother Mike seems to be suggesting differently.

Any insights?

Mark.

 

[Carico]

There is no justification for claiming that the "elect" (the saints) will be out of the world before the tribulation. In fact, MT. 24 explains they will be in the world as does Revelation 13. Rev. 13 also says that the anti-Christ will be given power over the saints.

Revelation 20 also says that those who had not worshiped the beast will be rewarded. Why would anyone be rewarded for not worshiping the beast if he wasn't here when the beast ruled?:shock:So the pre-trib rapture is not biblical...just wishful thinking.

But what we should really be concerned about is the mark of the beast. The KJV explains that the mark will be IN the right hand or forehead. Nothing describes that better than gps chips which are now being manufactured as we speak. They are the perfect "solution" by the secular world to identity theft and will thus be easily accepted as a gradual "evolution" of technological answers to the problem of theft and it will not be long before they are implemented. And in the not too distant future they will be considered mandatory. So I for one, will never consent to a computer chip being placed in my hand or forehead.

 

[Boanerges]

I have to agree with Mike about this; I have been in at least one hundred discussions with folks (all with solid biblical backgrounds) and they rarely reach consensus and even more rarely change anyone mind. I make it a general habit of staying out of these discussions but will continue to read your thread.
Many blessings in His Name, brother Larry.

 

[Carico]

Carico Jesus is Talking to the Jews. There will be 144,000 anointed by God to preach the Word of Truth. (The elect)

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This event far outweighs what happened during the Tribulation. Satan's fire from the sky, and all his weak power is not compared to God removing the very stars.

Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
This is the Lords Second coming. This one event is where men's hearts fail them. The Lord is also seen world wide coming in the clouds.

This all happens after Satan and his Anti-Christ had a shot at taking over.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until [c] he who restrains is taken out of the way.


The church must be removed before the Anti-Christ is revealed. Then we must wait until Satan is done with his goofy work and we come back with the Lord.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Satan can not operate if the Church who has all authority over him is still on the earth. It would not even be fair.

However, Like I said. If you don't understand the anointing or the Authority of a child of God, and believe in going though the tribulation, then you are still told not to be shaken in mind or even troubled by the tribulation period. So, it's not a issue in the first place.

Jesus Is Lord.

Wrong. The "elect" are those chosen before the creation of the world whether Jew or Gentile. Look at MT. 24:39-49. "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man; two men will be left in the field..."

That describes the rapture. Notice that it happens after the tribulation that Jesus describes in the previous verses.

So once again there is zero reason to say that the church won't go through the rapture because it contradicts that verse. It again is just wishful thinking.

 

[Mark of Faith]

Suffering Church

Thank you to all who are inputting into this thread.

In response to Bro Mike and Boanerges, I agree that idle talk regarding the end times is unproductive. There are many different takes on this, and often, it seems, each denomination has differing beliefs.

I personally have, until now, avoided much end times talk. It scared me, to be honest. Hence this thread is fresh to me, but I understand that it is not to you.

I am gaining a lot from this thread. I don't want it to be merely rapture discussion but to encompass other areas too, but the pre/post trib issue does pertain to my Rabel ministry, as part of it is to prepare the saints for persecution.

It is also worth noting that in a very large number of countries Christians are already facing death and torture for their belief in Christ.

In the West we have, I believe, largely forgotten the suffering part of being a Christian. With the jolility and good vibe feeling of much of the western Church, it is neglected that Jesus said that that we, as His followers, would experience sorrows.

In regards to the rapture question, I would like to refute the belief that "God would not let His people suffer" through the tribulation. Suffering is part of being a believer. We endure it for the sake of future glory.

Mark.

 

[Carico]

Thank you to all who are inputting into this thread.


In the West we have, I believe, largely forgotten the suffering part of being a Christian. With the jolility and good vibe feeling of much of the western Church, it is neglected that Jesus said that that we, as His followers, would experience sorrows.

In regards to the rapture question, I would like to refute the belief that "God would not let His people suffer" through the tribulation. Suffering is part of being a believer. We endure it for the sake of future glory.

Mark.

The only ones who have forgotten are those who don't stand up boldly enough for Christ to be persecuted. I have suffered horrendous persecution here in America. I'd much rather be tortured in some foreign country because I at least have the prayers and support of believers here in the West. But when I am litterally hated by all of my family (except my husband) and lost most friends for speaking the Word of God, for me, there is nothing worse.

But we never hear about the cost from the pulpit because most pastors and teachers never pay that cost. They are largely revered and respected which is what they want. And that is one of the biggest reasons there is so much FALSE TEACHING; the desire to be popular.

Rarely do we hear fire and brimstone any more.
Rarely do we hear from the pulpit that we will be HATED by the world and many times our families will be divided.
Rarely do we hear that we are not in control of the hearts of our children but only God is.

Those things aren't what itching ears want to hear so they're rarely spoken of.

Instead, what we hear is the enormous joy we'll have being a Christian.
If we aren't happy, then something's wrong with us or we're not a Christian.
That if we raise our kids right, they'll grow up to be loving Christians.
And you are correct; rarely do we hear that Christians will suffer in the tribulation because that's not what itching ears want to hear.

So the fear of not being accepted by the world and instead wanting to BELONG TO THE WORLD IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON THAT THE CHURCH STRAYS FROM THE BIBLE. IT'S WHAT LEADS ANY CHURCH TO REFUTE LEVITICUS 18:22 AND 20:13 GENESIS 2:7 AND ADOPT THE BELIEFS OF WORLDLY SCIENTISTS AND WORLDLY PEOPLE WHO ARE RULED BY SATAN.

 

[MelechYisrael]

I have to agree with Mike about this; I have been in at least one hundred discussions with folks (all with solid biblical backgrounds) and they rarely reach consensus and even more rarely change anyone mind. I make it a general habit of staying out of these discussions but will continue to read your thread.
Many blessings in His Name, brother Larry.

Yes. Too often I find that discussions on such topics as this can become quite heated and many times anger comes into play as one tries to prove his point to the other.

 

[Mark of Faith]

The only ones who have forgotten are those who don't stand up boldly enough for Christ to be persecuted. I have suffered horrendous persecution here in America. I'd much rather be tortured in some foreign country because I at least have the prayers and support of believers here in the West. But when I am litterally hated by all of my family (except my husband) and lost most friends for speaking the Word of God, for me, there is nothing worse.

But we never hear about the cost from the pulpit because most pastors and teachers never pay that cost. They are largely revered and respected which is what they want. And that is one of the biggest reasons there is so much FALSE TEACHING; the desire to be popular.

Rarely do we hear fire and brimstone any more.
Rarely do we hear from the pulpit that we will be HATED by the world and many times our families will be divided.
Rarely do we hear that we are not in control of the hearts of our children but only God is.

Those things aren't what itching ears want to hear so they're rarely spoken of.

Instead, what we hear is the enormous joy we'll have being a Christian.
If we aren't happy, then something's wrong with us or we're not a Christian.
That if we raise our kids right, they'll grow up to be loving Christians.
And you are correct; rarely do we hear that Christians will suffer in the tribulation because that's not what itching ears want to hear.

So the fear of not being accepted by the world and instead wanting to BELONG TO THE WORLD IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON THAT THE CHURCH STRAYS FROM THE BIBLE. IT'S WHAT LEADS ANY CHURCH TO REFUTE LEVITICUS 18:22 AND 20:13 GENESIS 2:7 AND ADOPT THE BELIEFS OF WORLDLY SCIENTISTS AND WORLDLY PEOPLE WHO ARE RULED BY SATAN.

Carico,

I am saddened to hear of your own experience of persecution. I posted an article on my site regarding "blessed are you when people revile you", yet it is, I know, very hurting when those near and dear reject and speak ill of you, simply because you stand for Christ.

Be encouraged, "great is your reward in heaven".

I agree with what you say. A popular prophet/teacher has much reward...on this earth. Yet Jesus said, "so did your fathers to the false prophets." And there are strong temptations to be "popular".

Our security must be found, not in the acceptance by people, but in our eternal acceptance in Christ by God.

Mark.

 

[Carico]

Carico,

I am saddened to hear of your own experience of persecution. I posted an article on my site regarding "blessed are you when people revile you", yet it is, I know, very hurting when those near and dear reject and speak ill of you, simply because you stand for Christ.

Be encouraged, "great is your reward in heaven".

I agree with what you say. A popular prophet/teacher has much reward...on this earth. Yet Jesus said, "so did your fathers to the false prophets." And there are strong temptations to be "popular".

Our security must be found, not in the acceptance by people, but in our eternal acceptance in Christ by God.

Mark.

Yup. Galatians 1:10, "Am I now trying to win the approval of men or the approval of God?... If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ." If we receive our reward on this earth, then we've already received it in full.

The whole NT talks about the suffering, rejection, persecution and pain of the apostles. But again, it's not talked about much from the pulpit. So it's refreshing to talk to other Christians who understand it as well.

 

[Mark of Faith]

End time religious beliefs

I have had a look at the "Christian or Catholic" thread, and this greatly reinforced my belief that the Romanist church will be the "*****" that sits on the Beast.

But Brother Mike raised an important point about other religions, especially Islam.

If, as I believe, the political and ecclesiastical Babylons will have world wide coverage (which will be necessary for there to be "peace", albeit a false peace), how does Islam etc. fit in?

Interestingly, during my searching years I read a book by the last pope, and it shows that the papal authorities engage in quite a heavy degree of communication with other religions.

It seems to me that this will accelerate, and the Romanist church will syncrete other false religious systems into itself in order to extend its influence.
Note that the Romanist church has few qualms about altering doctrine to fit in with new requirements, as it has done numerous times in the past. It has now begun a relaxation on policy towards homosexuals, which will be necessary to subsume the new age movement.

Mark.

 

[Carico]

I have had a look at the "Christian or Catholic" thread, and this greatly reinforced my belief that the Romanist church will be the "*****" that sits on the Beast.

But Brother Mike raised an important point about other religions, especially Islam.

If, as I believe, the political and ecclesiastical Babylons will have world wide coverage (which will be necessary for there to be "peace", albeit a false peace), how does Islam etc. fit in?

Interestingly, during my searching years I read a book by the last pope, and it shows that the papal authorities engage in quite a heavy degree of communication with other religions.

It seems to me that this will accelerate, and the Romanist church will syncrete other false religious systems into itself in order to extend its influence.
Note that the Romanist church has few qualms about altering doctrine to fit in with new requirements, as it has done numerous times in the past. It has now begun a relaxation on policy towards homosexuals, which will be necessary to subsume the new age movement.

Mark.

I've thought about that many times myself, Mark. The 7 hills could absolutely signify Rome and the RCC. The false prophet could be Muhammed, the pope or of course someone we don't know. One can never be sure about future prophecies because none of us knows what tomorrow will bring. We are simply supposed to be careful to interpret the signs as correctly as we can.

 

[Mark of Faith]

I've thought about that many times myself, Mark. The 7 hills could absolutely signify Rome and the RCC. The false prophet could be Muhammed, the pope or of course someone we don't know. One can never be sure about future prophecies because none of us knows what tomorrow will bring. We are simply supposed to be careful to interpret the signs as correctly as we can.

I agree with the statement that "one can never be sure about future prophecies because none of us knows what tomorrow will bring".

Only God knows for sure what will happen. We are told to "watch" and "pray". I believe the indications and prophecies are given in Scripture so that we may be ready. Not for arguments about what will/won't happen. Jesus said that His coming would be at "an hour you don't expect", and note that this was said to His disciples, not to the world.

So, though we can see the signs, and know that the hour is approaching, we cannot give a blow by blow account of the future.

Nevertheless, I believe it worthwhile to look at these verses in order to "make ourselves ready". We want to be "wise virgins" and not "foolish virgins".

Mark.