emerging church
- Thread starter ness
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rizen1
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Grace and Peace, Ness
How art thou.
I know the emerging group question the current denominations in hope for a new way.
An open mindness to spirituality is practiced.
What I'm not sure of, but I think practices such as Labyrinths, , mantras, and contemplative prayers are used.
Correct me if I'm wrong, " conversation" (emerging church ) is new to me
How art thou.
I know the emerging group question the current denominations in hope for a new way.
An open mindness to spirituality is practiced.
What I'm not sure of, but I think practices such as Labyrinths, , mantras, and contemplative prayers are used.
Correct me if I'm wrong, " conversation" (emerging church ) is new to me
Last edited:
Hi, umm are you saying you don't know much about it ? Ive never felt so alive in and with God since i became aware of emerging thought
pjnewman
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I had never heard of the emerging church before so I googled it... interesting hits and a fair wiki entry as well. Looks like a movement which traditional denominations will take issue much like they have and continue to do with the Word-Faith movement and Charismatics/Pentacostals.
God bless you on your spiritual journey.
God bless you on your spiritual journey.
Hi pjnewman i'm not sure of the wording you use word- faith and charismatics. Umm the emergent thinking is kind of postmodern whereas pentecostal ways of holding our faith is modern are you familiar with these terms its a new revelation so to speak
pjnewman
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Pray for discernment as you search. Personally, I see a lot of negative posts on the internet when seeking information on the Word-Faith (aka Word of Faith) movement or Charismatic in general. Last night I found the same to be true for the "emerging" church. I could not do justice to defining these movements so I'd suggest an internet search with, again, a call for discernment.
The Holy Spirit will lead you. Just ask.
The Holy Spirit will lead you. Just ask.
Hi
bit confused are you charismatic? i belonged to a pentecostal church for 15 years - no longer, to be honest i dont beleive in labels or denoninations but i seek the living god in my life a lot of evangelical theology wasn't really real to me, but 'just being' with God and conversing with 'emergent thinking' has wondered me and given me a sense of the awsomeness of God.
bit confused are you charismatic? i belonged to a pentecostal church for 15 years - no longer, to be honest i dont beleive in labels or denoninations but i seek the living god in my life a lot of evangelical theology wasn't really real to me, but 'just being' with God and conversing with 'emergent thinking' has wondered me and given me a sense of the awsomeness of God.
pjnewman
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I do not label myself. I guess if I did, then I'd fall close to the Charismatic spectrum. I believe in the Gifts of the Spirit. I attend a variety of churches, mostly Calvary Chapel, Vineyard, etc. But I also feel comfortable in the mainstream church (ie. Presbyterian).
Yes, our God is an AWESOME God. I am thrilled to read of your sensing just how awesome He is!
I just now put 2 and 2 together with your name and location. Ness and Wales...
Yes, our God is an AWESOME God. I am thrilled to read of your sensing just how awesome He is!
I just now put 2 and 2 together with your name and location. Ness and Wales...
I had some red lights going of in my mind about the question of ness in this threat and did some research. I will copy and paste one of the article I found for insight:
"Gibbs is Professor of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of several books. Their research took place over a period of almost five years.
One of the trends the authors examine in detail is evangelism. Evangelism, they say, in the emerging church “involves sharing the deep experiences of life with those outside the faith”. [5] Emerging church leaders are not impressed by those who defend the Christian faith by promoting definitive answers to convince those who doubt the faith.
In order to substantiate this trend, Gibbs and Bolger quote emerging church leader Pip Piper from Birmingham, UK, who states:
Evangelism or mission for me is no longer persuading people to believe what I believe, not matter how edgy or creative I get. It is more about shared experiences and encounters. It is about walking the journey of life and faith together, each distinct to his or her own tradition and culture but with the possibility of encountering God and truth from one another.
Pip Piper’s definition of evangelization sets off a biblical alarm. Are not Christians instructed to give reasonable answers to non-believers why they have faith? If not, then why did Peter write:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
What if someone who was “willing to walk the journey of life and faith” with someone who is committed to a faith that is in opposition to the Christian faith, lost their faith?
Wouldn’t this be evangelism in reverse? Where in the Bible are we instructed to join hands with pagans and consider their beliefs as a means of evangelism?
Apparently, Gibbs and Bolger believe the advantages of this style of evangelism outweigh the negatives. They write:
Christians can not truly evangelize unless they are prepared to be evangelized in the process. In sharing the good news, people are enriched by the spiritual insights, honest questions and depth of devotion demonstrated by those of other faiths. Including others involves listening to them, learning from them. Much of what exists in other faiths may not necessarily be hostile to the kingdom. Christians can learn a lot from other walks of life.
In spite of such clear warnings from Scripture, Gibbs and Bolger provide a further example of what is believed to be successful emerging church evangelism:
However, the Christian tradition could hold to an inclusive model, not an exclusive one. We have a community hermeneutic. We read other sacred writings, then get back to the Scripture and decide together how to interpret what we have read from the literature that other religions hold sacred.
Burke’s community is prepared to learn from faith traditions outside the Christian fold. There is a Buddhist family in their church. As a community, the church visited a Buddhist temple. They participated in a guided meditation with this family. Burke celebrates the many ways God is revealed. He recognizes that the Spirit has been with these people all along. The community celebrates other traditions. They reach out to other traditions, and see them as beloved children of God. With a focus on kingdom rather than on church, people find that their relationship with other faiths changes.
It should be apparent what is occurring as the emerging church evangelization program unfolds. Walls that once separated biblical Christianity from pagan religious belief systems are being demolished. Instead of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ that saves sinners from hell, the gospel has been redefined and totally nullified. The narrow pathway that Jesus proclaimed leads to heaven through faith in Him alone now has been broadened to permit open access for the sake of establishing the “kingdom”.
Worse yet, the command by Jesus that we are to be “His witnesses” has been reinterpreted to mean the very opposite of what Jesus proclaimed. As Karen Ward has stated (from the Church of the Apostles, Seattle, Washington):
We do not do evangelism or have a mission. The Holy Spirit is the evangelist, and the mission belongs to God. What we do is simply live our lives publicly as a community in the way of Jesus Christ, and when people inquire why we live this way, we share with them the account of the hope within us. We are to love one another, and that creates its own attraction. Taking care of the sick and the needy - creates all the evangelism we need.
The new evangelization program being promoted by the emerging church, while it may be in the name of Christ, is antichrist. A formula has been established to provide a bridge that has the potential to unite all religious beliefs in the name of Christ, by circumventing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In the future we will see all faiths join together based on a common mystical experience accompanied by “lying signs and wonders”. The apostasy the Bible warned would be apparent in the Last Days is now fully underway. Only those who hold firm to God’s Word will be protected and delivered. This remnant of faithful believers will be viewed as old-fashioned narrow-minded holdouts who are a hindrance to the establishment of the “kingdom.” As Paul wrote to Timothy, in the Last Days:
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."
I further quote some disturbing things that I've read:
"The emerging churches seemed to be attempting to relate to pomo culture where people had some focus on new forms of mysticism. I was really excited to discover that some emerging churches consciously or unconsciously were based on Trinitarian What God models as the sacred community is what church is called to reflect. These values of inclusivity, justice, incarnation, unity in diversity and focus on fluidity as community are key to being emerging church. It is deeply mystical and hugely exciting...."
"Ian Mobsby talks to Jonny Baker about his research dissertation for his MA at Kings College London.
I think our context (certainly in London anyway) is shaped by different ethnic groups, nationalities, cultures and religions. Part of the challenge for Christian faith in postmodern times has to include some sense of how to negotiate this plural context."
"Jim Gilmore (The Tribe, Los Angeles) interviewed by John Drane
I saw things I didn't think normal people could do, engineering and performance and artistic marvels, out in the middle of nowhere, and this community of commitment and joy and mirth surrounding it. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things out there I don't really vibe with - I don't do drugs, I don't get naked, I'm really not much of an idealist, believe it or not - but there's this underlying thing, what Victor Turner would describe as communitas, that brings everyone together. The artists, the Mad Max aggro types, the punks, the hippies, the greenies, and even cynics like me - we all drag our butts out to the desert once a year and party together and celebrate together and think deep thoughts together. Honestly, I've experienced more church at Burning Man than I have at a lot of churches I've been a part of."
There is much more than this but I think this will give you an idea on this subject.
I personally can't associate myself with this kind of church.
I would like to hear from my other brothers and sisters on how they feel reading this article.
Blessings!
"Gibbs is Professor of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of several books. Their research took place over a period of almost five years.
One of the trends the authors examine in detail is evangelism. Evangelism, they say, in the emerging church “involves sharing the deep experiences of life with those outside the faith”. [5] Emerging church leaders are not impressed by those who defend the Christian faith by promoting definitive answers to convince those who doubt the faith.
In order to substantiate this trend, Gibbs and Bolger quote emerging church leader Pip Piper from Birmingham, UK, who states:
Evangelism or mission for me is no longer persuading people to believe what I believe, not matter how edgy or creative I get. It is more about shared experiences and encounters. It is about walking the journey of life and faith together, each distinct to his or her own tradition and culture but with the possibility of encountering God and truth from one another.
Pip Piper’s definition of evangelization sets off a biblical alarm. Are not Christians instructed to give reasonable answers to non-believers why they have faith? If not, then why did Peter write:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
What if someone who was “willing to walk the journey of life and faith” with someone who is committed to a faith that is in opposition to the Christian faith, lost their faith?
Wouldn’t this be evangelism in reverse? Where in the Bible are we instructed to join hands with pagans and consider their beliefs as a means of evangelism?
Apparently, Gibbs and Bolger believe the advantages of this style of evangelism outweigh the negatives. They write:
Christians can not truly evangelize unless they are prepared to be evangelized in the process. In sharing the good news, people are enriched by the spiritual insights, honest questions and depth of devotion demonstrated by those of other faiths. Including others involves listening to them, learning from them. Much of what exists in other faiths may not necessarily be hostile to the kingdom. Christians can learn a lot from other walks of life.
In spite of such clear warnings from Scripture, Gibbs and Bolger provide a further example of what is believed to be successful emerging church evangelism:
However, the Christian tradition could hold to an inclusive model, not an exclusive one. We have a community hermeneutic. We read other sacred writings, then get back to the Scripture and decide together how to interpret what we have read from the literature that other religions hold sacred.
Burke’s community is prepared to learn from faith traditions outside the Christian fold. There is a Buddhist family in their church. As a community, the church visited a Buddhist temple. They participated in a guided meditation with this family. Burke celebrates the many ways God is revealed. He recognizes that the Spirit has been with these people all along. The community celebrates other traditions. They reach out to other traditions, and see them as beloved children of God. With a focus on kingdom rather than on church, people find that their relationship with other faiths changes.
It should be apparent what is occurring as the emerging church evangelization program unfolds. Walls that once separated biblical Christianity from pagan religious belief systems are being demolished. Instead of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ that saves sinners from hell, the gospel has been redefined and totally nullified. The narrow pathway that Jesus proclaimed leads to heaven through faith in Him alone now has been broadened to permit open access for the sake of establishing the “kingdom”.
Worse yet, the command by Jesus that we are to be “His witnesses” has been reinterpreted to mean the very opposite of what Jesus proclaimed. As Karen Ward has stated (from the Church of the Apostles, Seattle, Washington):
We do not do evangelism or have a mission. The Holy Spirit is the evangelist, and the mission belongs to God. What we do is simply live our lives publicly as a community in the way of Jesus Christ, and when people inquire why we live this way, we share with them the account of the hope within us. We are to love one another, and that creates its own attraction. Taking care of the sick and the needy - creates all the evangelism we need.
The new evangelization program being promoted by the emerging church, while it may be in the name of Christ, is antichrist. A formula has been established to provide a bridge that has the potential to unite all religious beliefs in the name of Christ, by circumventing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In the future we will see all faiths join together based on a common mystical experience accompanied by “lying signs and wonders”. The apostasy the Bible warned would be apparent in the Last Days is now fully underway. Only those who hold firm to God’s Word will be protected and delivered. This remnant of faithful believers will be viewed as old-fashioned narrow-minded holdouts who are a hindrance to the establishment of the “kingdom.” As Paul wrote to Timothy, in the Last Days:
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."
I further quote some disturbing things that I've read:
"The emerging churches seemed to be attempting to relate to pomo culture where people had some focus on new forms of mysticism. I was really excited to discover that some emerging churches consciously or unconsciously were based on Trinitarian What God models as the sacred community is what church is called to reflect. These values of inclusivity, justice, incarnation, unity in diversity and focus on fluidity as community are key to being emerging church. It is deeply mystical and hugely exciting...."
"Ian Mobsby talks to Jonny Baker about his research dissertation for his MA at Kings College London.
I think our context (certainly in London anyway) is shaped by different ethnic groups, nationalities, cultures and religions. Part of the challenge for Christian faith in postmodern times has to include some sense of how to negotiate this plural context."
"Jim Gilmore (The Tribe, Los Angeles) interviewed by John Drane
I saw things I didn't think normal people could do, engineering and performance and artistic marvels, out in the middle of nowhere, and this community of commitment and joy and mirth surrounding it. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things out there I don't really vibe with - I don't do drugs, I don't get naked, I'm really not much of an idealist, believe it or not - but there's this underlying thing, what Victor Turner would describe as communitas, that brings everyone together. The artists, the Mad Max aggro types, the punks, the hippies, the greenies, and even cynics like me - we all drag our butts out to the desert once a year and party together and celebrate together and think deep thoughts together. Honestly, I've experienced more church at Burning Man than I have at a lot of churches I've been a part of."
There is much more than this but I think this will give you an idea on this subject.
I personally can't associate myself with this kind of church.
I would like to hear from my other brothers and sisters on how they feel reading this article.
Blessings!
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Is something wrong with the Word itself that you are not satisfied and need to go with some man made ideology?
Why not just stick with the Word of GOD instead of "emerging church" or any other man made ideas, paths, etc?
I'm sorry that you interpret my correspondance and me in the way you do the emerging church experience is still the word of God! I hope ann and chad that you may be able to converse at some point with those around you without insult and defense.
Although i all to well understand how you feel, i too have felt at times like it. The catholic fathers of Martin Luther, felt angered and he too was frightened when God started to transform his thinking.
This is where Grace is really real for me i think
i hope we can be friends
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And where exactly is this "insult" you claim? I think you made this foolish comment just because the truth struck a chord in your heart and you cannot deny it.
GOD transform His thinking? I think not.
The Bible teaches that "Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." (Hebrews 13:8)
I'm hoping you'll be able to answer my very simple question without making false claims about others insulting you just because you do not agree with their truth.
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ness
I am sorry if you feel insulted by my post, it was not meant as one.
As a born again Christian believing in God and the Word of God which is the Bible, I only investigated the issue and quoted what I found, to inform others, who may be ignorant about the emerging church.
"1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
Regarding me, I quote you - (you may be able to converse at some point with those around you), I don't think so, I love the word of God and will do anything within my power to obey only God.
I pray that you would, for your own salvation, compare the doctrinal of the emerging church with the Word of God and that the Spirit of God reveal the truth to you.
Chad thank you for making the link available it will help to settle this issue.
Blessings!
I am sorry if you feel insulted by my post, it was not meant as one.
As a born again Christian believing in God and the Word of God which is the Bible, I only investigated the issue and quoted what I found, to inform others, who may be ignorant about the emerging church.
"1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
Regarding me, I quote you - (you may be able to converse at some point with those around you), I don't think so, I love the word of God and will do anything within my power to obey only God.
I pray that you would, for your own salvation, compare the doctrinal of the emerging church with the Word of God and that the Spirit of God reveal the truth to you.
Chad thank you for making the link available it will help to settle this issue.
Blessings!
Ness forgive me for this comment, I misinterpreted the word converse and replied wrongly. I had the word convert in my head when I replied.
Fortunately the Spirit of God touched me and said: "Ann apologise you were wrong ness meant talking not converting."
I'm very sorry.
With Love.
Blessings!
Hello again
yes thats fine ann communication is sometimes flawed between us all, as you know " we only see in part ...........
Hi Chad i was hoping more for an answer on " i hope we can be friends". I worship the creater God, i am learning to listen, learn and serve on a theology course with South Wales Baptist College (Cardiff), here i've learnt of 'Jesus and that i carry his spirit', through the bible scriptures. What i have learnt to discard is a 'worship of the bible and scriptures' in itself.
I don't think you want to be friends so i'll sign off
Jesus Grace be yours and mine
yes thats fine ann communication is sometimes flawed between us all, as you know " we only see in part ...........
Hi Chad i was hoping more for an answer on " i hope we can be friends". I worship the creater God, i am learning to listen, learn and serve on a theology course with South Wales Baptist College (Cardiff), here i've learnt of 'Jesus and that i carry his spirit', through the bible scriptures. What i have learnt to discard is a 'worship of the bible and scriptures' in itself.
I don't think you want to be friends so i'll sign off
Jesus Grace be yours and mine
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Sister, your on my site. Welcome aboard as the body of Christ which is more than "friends". You STILL did not answer my simple question, instead you childishly want to "sign off". I see this happen too many times. Yet you claim your willing to learn and listen. Then why are you not listening? Because you know the answer will expose the fact that the 'emerging church' is wrong and you are clearly not humble enough to admit so.
This is the 2nd time now that you've purposely disregarded my simple question. That's a shame to be honest. Is it too difficult to answer a simple question? No one asked you to worship the Bible itself, however the Bible is the Word of GOD and is ALL you need to know what GOD has to say to you, by the power of the Holy Spirit who gives understanding to all who have ears that listen.
Are you listening? Clearly you cannot even answer a simple question without childishly accusing me of something, twice so far.
pjnewman
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