Does it matter what day we keep the Sabbath?

[jiggyfly]

Sorry for the delay.
But the way I see 2Cor3 Paul devotes most of this chapter explaining the important difference in the administration of some of the laws written in the Old Testament. I dont see it as saying the Laws are abolished. But the application of their text sometimes has to be applied in a way that is compatible with the New Covenant.
what do you think Jesus meant in Matrthew 5:17 when He said
" Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil " ?

I think He meant exactly what He said, came to fulfill the law and He was successful. The contract of the old covenant which includes the law and ten commandments was fulfilled by Christ completely and nothing lacking. God is now satisfied.

Not sure how you came up with "some of the laws" when Paul clarifies that the old covenant includes even the laws that were carved in stone, which by the way includes keeping the sabbath.

 

[judge not]

I think He meant exactly what He said, came to fulfill the law and He was successful. The contract of the old covenant which includes the law and ten commandments was fulfilled by Christ completely and nothing lacking. God is now satisfied.

Not sure how you came up with "some of the laws" when Paul clarifies that the old covenant includes even the laws that were carved in stone, which by the way includes keeping the sabbath.

Fulfil means to make full, expand, enhance, to fill up.
In Luke 16:17 we read Jesus saying " And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the Law to fail "
Following that in verse 18 we see Jesus quoting the Seventh Commandment and gives detailed instruction about not committing adultery"
Hardly doing away with God's Law. wouldn't you say?

 

[David777]

Hello Judge not.

I would consult a dictionary if I was you.

ful·fill also ful·fil tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils

1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.


From the online dictionary.

So we see that Jesus did fulfill the law.

Jesus did complete the law.

Jesus did bring to an end the law.

 

[judge not]

Judge not, you asked me for my take on;

1 John 2:3-5

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

Whose commandments, well that is straight forward what Jesus commanded us to do.

It is certainly not the Ten Commandments as the following passages demonstrate.

Romans 7 (NKJV)

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The true Commandments according to Jesus are as follows judge not;

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Here is another judge not;

Matthew 7:12

12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

And another;

John 3

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

See how the commandments of Jesus surpass the Ten Commandments.

I am not sure how many commandments Jesus gave but
I think there were three dozen or more.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law for the Jews.
That means the Law of Moses is obsolete.

God honored His side of the Covenant with Israel.

For us Gentiles that were excluded from the Old Covenant,
excluded from the Commonwealth of Israel and excluded
from the law of Moses.

We also have been granted Salvation in Jesus Christ, this
is the great revelation that Paul recieved. Both Jew and
Gentile are drawn equally through Jesus Christ.

That is why the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the
Gentiles which the apostles witnessed.

I believe as I hope many others do that in Matthew 22 Christ is directing us to understand that the commandments are organized into two categories. The first four commandments show us how to love God, and the last six show us how we should love one another.
What is the definition of Sin in the New Testament?
1John 3:4 " ..sin is the transgression of the Law "
It makes no sense to assume God, upon forgiving our sins, would do away with the Law that defines sin-the Ten Commandments-for if there is no Law, there is no sin and if there is no sin there is no need for remission of sins.Romans 5:13
The Ten Commandments are God's standard of righteousness.
We have been delivered from the penalty of the Law by our Redeemer for our past sins-but for future sins God is alive with us today if we should sin to hear our repentance and forgive us for our trespasses. His death wiped our slate clean and blotted out our inequities .
" and he that overcometh, and keep my works until the end, to him i will give power over the nations"

 

[David777]

Well....

John 16:7-8


"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away.
Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go,
I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of
guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment."

Still do not require the Old Testament law, judge not.

 

[David777]

Yo...

Acts 20

http://bible.cc/acts/20-7.htm7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together
to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day;
and continued his speech until midnight.

They are breaking bread on Sunday not the seventh(sabbath) day.

 

[jiggyfly]

Fulfil means to make full, expand, enhance, to fill up.
In Luke 16:17 we read Jesus saying " And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the Law to fail "
Following that in verse 18 we see Jesus quoting the Seventh Commandment and gives detailed instruction about not committing adultery"
Hardly doing away with God's Law. wouldn't you say?

Who said that the law failed? Do you know what was God's purpose for giving the law to Israel?

The law didn't fail, it was fulfilled. Do you understand what a covenant is Judge Not?

 

[judge not]

David777

Jesus did bring to an end the law.[/QUOTE]

The thing you have to look at is the origin of the word-the Greek word pleroo, was translated " fulfill', which means to fill up.
Look at the same Greek word in John:15:11 -" these things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full" Just like a turkey dinner, being full doesn't mean it brings an end to eating forever.
Even in Acts 2:2, we see the word being used "and suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled all the house where they were sitting" Like loud music filling all the room you might be in-it doesn't bring an end to the noise.
in Matt 5: 21-28, Christ was expounding the principle and extent of the Law, which made it even more binding and comprehensive than before.
He extended the physical "keeping of the Law" into the realm of our thoughts.
A far cry from bringing an end to the Law

 

[judge not]

They are breaking bread on Sunday not the seventh(sabbath) day.
[/QUOTE]

David777

A lot of people are easily confused by scripture like this.
This term does not denote a religious service but just the dividing of loaves of bread for eating a meal.
Remember the Ist day of the week at this time started at sunset Saturday night-just as the Seventh day Sabbath started at sunset on Friday evening.
The official Breaking of Bread and wine commemoration in the New Testament only occurs once a year at the festival of Passover.
In addition to verse 7, afterwards in verse 11 Paul spoke and broke more bread.and ate.
You see after speaking all night Paul walked almost 20 miles to Assos the next morning-hardly a day of rest and worship for him.
jn

 

[David777]

In reply to your previous post judge not.

Hello Judge not, you did state in your last post,

"The thing you have to look at is the origin of the word-the Greek word pleroo,
was translated " fulfill', which means to fill up."

Lets defer to Strongs Lexicon.

4137. pleroo play-ro'-o from 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net),
level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy,
execute (an office), finish (a period or task)

If you notice judge not in Matthew 5:17,

King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

It is a mission or a task that Jesus is performing hence "pleroo" will mean finish or complete.

That is why the translators of the Bible use the English translation of "fulfill" for the greek word "pleroo".

Now we check the meaning of "fulfill".

Source Dictionary.com

ful·fill
verb (used with object)
1.
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
2.
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
3.
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.): a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
4.
to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time: He felt that life
was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

Synonyms, notice the words below that are similar judge not.

1. accomplish, achieve, complete, realize. 2. execute, discharge, observe.
3. meet, answer, fill, comply with. 4. end, terminate, conclude.

We are not talking about a turkey dinner judge not, but the koine greek "pleroo".

Perhaps you would like to explain the following.

Matthew 9

16 “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”

 

[David777]

In reply to your last post judge not.

I said,

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together
to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day;
and continued his speech until midnight.

They are breaking bread on Sunday not the seventh(sabbath) day.

Judge not said, "A lot of people are easily confused by scripture like this."

Yes, especially when it says "when the disciples came together to break bread".
They may not be confused judge not, they are right.

Matthew 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave
it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”27 Then He took the cup,
and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hence we find in the early Church that the practice of breaking the bread was not yearly but daily.

Read the following two verses.

Acts 2:42
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread,
and in prayers.

Acts 2:46
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,
they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

Now look at your next line judge not,

"This term does not denote a religious service but just the dividing of loaves of bread for eating a meal."

This was no meal, this was the celebration of the New Covenant signified by the breaking of the bread.

 

[faithfulservant]

Couple things:

People who follow Jesus don't need to "keep" the sabbath. Jesus, who is absolutely everything in every way for us, actually is our sabbath rest. We observe the sabbath every single day, as we rest from our works and rely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross in faith.

You will find scriptural support for this at the end of Hebrews 3 and the beginning of Hebrews 4 (the chapter and verses aren't breathed out by God like the actual scriptures are).

Next, if a Jewish person accepts Jesus as their Savior, they may continue to keep the sabbath as a matter of tradition, but they should be fully persuaded that Jesus' sacrifice is the only thing that saves them.

Finally, it doesn't matter what day someone observes the sabbath, as all these things are simply a shadow of what was to come: Jesus Christ, in Whom lay all the substance of what God had ordained for His children unto salvation.

 

[judge not]

I said,

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together
to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day;
and continued his speech until midnight.

They are breaking bread on Sunday not the seventh(sabbath) day.

Judge not said, "A lot of people are easily confused by scripture like this."

Yes, especially when it says "when the disciples came together to break bread".
They may not be confused judge not, they are right.

Matthew 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave
it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”27 Then He took the cup,
and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hence we find in the early Church that the practice of breaking the bread was not yearly but daily.

Read the following two verses.

Acts 2:42
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread,
and in prayers.

Acts 2:46
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,
they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

Now look at your next line judge not,

"This term does not denote a religious service but just the dividing of loaves of bread for eating a meal."

This was no meal, this was the celebration of the New Covenant signified by the breaking of the bread.

You are right Breaking Bread was done daily, probably twice daily. I'm talking about the last supper commemoration marks Jesus death when we observe this solemn annual occasion-read 1Cor, chapter 11

 

[judge not]

As interesting as this thread is, I'm getting prepared to go on Spring Break and won't be back until March 16-please continue it and I appreciate all the input from all contributors. I will participate when I get back and also afterwards start another thread that will be more thought provoking than this one.
Cheers,
jn

 

[james g]

Still in the first Adam.A fruitless vine.True to its Adamic nature.

 

[judge not]

Kind of a wrap up or summary so far from what I believe:

The Bible never commands anyone to observe Sunday rather it instructs us to work on the first day of the week

The seventh day Sabbath was kept in the New testament well into the 1st century. 40 years after Christ's death the Apostles were teaching gentiles in Corinth to observe even the Holydays like the passover.

God did not say the Sabbath was made for Jews but rather for man.

Revelation shows us the 7th day Sabbath will be kept in the future during the 1000 year reign of Christ when He returns.

The 7th day of the week was blessed by God-his divine favor put upon it.
No other day of the week was ever blessed and hallowed.

The 7th day of the week was given the distinction of being a sign between God and His people.

Were Israelites who became Christian told to forsake their perpetual covenant and keep and observe another day of the week?

Did Jesus keep the 7th day Sabbath and did He ask us to follow His example?

Here is what some others believe:

Archbishop J.C. Gibbons, the highest ranking Catholic in America in his time from his book Faith of our fathers " You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday "

Methodist Charles Buck from his theological dictionary of the meaning of
" Sabbath " -
" Sabbath in the Hebrew language signifies rest and is the 7th day of the week.....and it must be confessed that there is no law in the NT concerning the 1st day of the week"

Baptist Harold Lindsell, editor of Christianity Today
" There is nothing in scripture that requires us to keep Sunday rather than Saturday as a holy day"

Keeping the 7th day Sabbath is not the old fashioned way from the Old Testament, if anything it's the wave of the future.
As Isaiah, the prophet says speaking of God's coming Kingdom in the future " All flesh shall come to worship me(God) from one Sabbath to another"
It's never too late to change.
Better to keep the tradition of God, rather than the tradition of men.
jn

 

[Brother Mike]

Nice summery.

So, all these great scriptural post, and work of other members to conclude what you already thought to start with?

How bout that.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[judge not]

So, all these great scriptural post, and work of other members to conclude what you already thought to start with?

How bout that.

Jesus Is Lord.

If you mean keeping the 4th Commandment as God ordered - yes

 

[jiggyfly]

So, all these great scriptural post, and work of other members to conclude what you already thought to start with?

How bout that.

Jesus Is Lord.

A most excellent conclusion Mike.:wink:

 

[judge not]

A most excellent conclusion Mike.:wink:

It was disappointing to see most posts on this Christian site were anti-Sabbath in the fact they considered the seventh day observance obsolete or for Jewish people or that it didn't matter which day they honored God and rested. That is a man-made idea.
Some like David777 believe Jesus rose on Sunday, as most Christians do and therefore that was one reason Saturday was changed to Sunday.
That was a wrong assumption. Jesus did not rise back up on Sunday, nor was He crucified on Friday(good friday) according to scriptures. That is the subject of my next post coming up next.
The Roman catholic church transferred the obligation from Saturday to Sunday and the the Protestant churches followed Mother Rome later on.
Who gave us the right to change God's Commandments.
Some of the most famous theologians in the world couldn't find any direct order from God to sanctify Sunday and most of the posts on this subject failed to recognize that evidence.
There is still hope to find the truth if you prove all things yourself rather than just go along with the flow assuming it must be right because it's being around for so long.
All these churches can't be wrong can they?