Does God cause sickness as a test?

[Brother Mike]

S.I.E

Yes, I read Lioncub's post... You will also find the same Affirmation in Deut 28:

God will cause... God will send.. I (God) will smite you with boils. Deut 28...

I did not respond because I already went over this...

Not that we need to get into Hebrew to understand the Word... The Word is very clear on sickness, and what brought it to the Earth..

Adam's Sin......
There was no sickness on the planet until this time....

For by one mans sin death reigned. Rom 5:17-21
Rom 5:21 states that sin can even be unto death.........

This is a Law.... the curse part of that Law.. or refereed to as the Law of sin and death.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


The Curse part is still in operation over the whole earth... It effects everything. Being a Curse it can and will take hold, even if one deserves it or not...For all have sinned and fall short the glory of God. We are told our faith can overcome this in the World, and fight the good fight of faith...

Jesus did something about this Curse that Adam brought...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Because we are told this curse came to us through disobedience...Gal 3:10..........
We need to look at some of the things this curse included...for disobedience...

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee


Deu 28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

Deu 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

Sickness, sore joints, mold, hemorrhoids, Adultery, loss of family, Poverty, the list is long and are part of that curse....
Curse was designed for one thing..........

Until thou be destroyed or perish...... to take away quality of life, to depress, and oppress. To steal, kill and destroy you.......

It was never designed to help us in any positive way.... It was meant to kill us if it can....and that is why we should resist with full force anything in our lives that are part of that curse.....

Jesus:

Jesus destroyed the works of the devil.. He made a way.. and he took that punishment we deserved, and by his stripes we are healed... Just like being saved through grace by FAITH.... It's gonna be that same grace and faith that grabs the victory for healing... All the word is the same, and things just don't drop in our lap like ripe cherry's off a tree.. We have to believe..... just like we did to get born again..

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

God causes this or that.





Any Student of the Hebrew knows the issues with the Hebrew causative and passive tense verbs.. It has been well documented by Young and other scholars.. When the OT was translated only the Causative was used... This is most apparent in the first few books... Latter we see a transition from "God turns his back" God said... "I will Allow" God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked and so forth....
In the NT, It is mans choice or those that believe..... but God has never changed..
Don't take my word for it.. study it out yourself..

Even if you believe God causes sickness.
Obedience and faith in God, and Jesus who took the punishment for sickness on our behalf.... would be more than enough to overcome anything....

If sickness is the Will of God... and God uses it to help us.. then what caused the sickness must also be the will of God, and that was disobedience to His Word.......... Think about it...


Jesus Is Lord.

 

[s.i.e.]

Jesus did something about this Curse that Adam brought...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Here's the thing: you're right...we are free from the law of sin and death, but we are will still sin, and we will still die. We sin, and we die. We are saints, who sin. That is what we are. We pray, we try to do right, we try to be good...but even that is filthy rags to God! ONLY THROUGH JESUS can we be holy.

Sickness, sore joints, mold, hemorrhoids, Adultery, loss of family, Poverty, the list is long and are part of that curse....
Curse was designed for one thing..........


Until thou be destroyed or perish...... to take away quality of life, to depress, and oppress. To steal, kill and destroy you.......



It was never designed to help us in any positive way.... It was meant to kill us if it can....and that is why we should resist with full force

Well...it would depend on what you consider to be "stealing, killing, and destroying". The thing is, you're talking a lot about physical illnesses, or financial woes, etc. I'm not too worried about that stuff. Or, at times, I should better say: I would like to not be worried about that kind of stuff!

How does Matt 10:28 fit into your theory? "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus destroyed the works of the devil..

Yes, He did. At least, ultimately, He did. But...for a time, the devil is still very much at work. On this Earth. In this "holding tank" that we live on. So, yes, He destroyed Satan's ultimate plans...but Satan has a period of time why which he works, still...to fool you and me. You know that Brother Mike!

If sickness is the Will of God... and God uses it to help us.. then what caused the sickness must also be the will of God, and that was disobedience to His Word.......... Think about it...

Oh yes...I have thought about it. Much. And I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this...but I actually do think that this was and is His plan.

In other words, I believe free will was God's plan. And within that context, knowing He made us in His image...I believe God knew full well that ultimately, it was inevitable that we would have eaten of that God-forsaken apple!!

If that wasn't God's plan...I don't think He would have put the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil smack dab in the center of the Garden, equipped with a serpent to sell the idea, who by the way, was the "craftiest of all" creatures.

Satan thought he won that day, when we ate the apple...but he was fooled. God relentlessly scandalized satan's plan by throwing down a trump card. Then, God put through the Knock-Out punch by throwing us out of the Garden so we couldn't live in this fallen state forever and ever.

Holy macaroli. Satan must still be reeling from that move. Who would have seen that coming? Not satan, that's for sure.

So, I have thought about it. Have you thought about it?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Brother Mike:

This was not a simple prayer... but something that took time and preparation, and Job did this continually..... meaning he did not believe that he received..

Yes,absolutely and all your study to learn the exact right thing at the exact right moment did not take time or preparation?

I have been doing this for a few Years S.I.E

I have learned.... If I don't get my healing, if things are not working, if things don't turn around, then it has to be me.... It has to be something I don't know, or have learned in the Word

If we see loss as a sign we are not following God then at what point did Jesus accept the loss of his life without feeling he was disappointing God.Some things we can change but if our love is true we will welcome the cup he has for us.Whether it includes victory or sacrifice.

The fact that "fasting" MAY be an embellishment does not change my point of bringing that story up.Jesus stayed saturated in the Spirit because he constantly fasted and prayed.So saturated that rivers of living water poured forth from him.

Nevertheless,thy will be done is not ALWAYS a cop out.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you everyone..

Thank you everyone for your response.. agree or not, we have seen things to think on and consider...

Don't forget Rizen1's post.. it's really good......

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Don't forget Rizen1's post.. it's really good..

.

Yes,rizen1,I am adopting your outlook.
I am never alone and that's more important than what I'm facing.
Thank you..

 

[s.i.e.]

Thanks for sharing your personal testimony of this, rizen1. It was interesting to read, and I found myself relating to quite a lot of it. For most of what you say, and the perspective you've walked away with after this chapter of your life, I would agree with and live with the same perspective. That said, a couple things you said stood out to me, for whatever reason...

There are many factors to why bad things happen to us, wrong place at the wrong time, our disobedience, pride , greed, selfishness, us not meditating on the word of God, us not being still and waiting on the Lord, our ignorance of what the bible is saying, neglecting his commandments and ignoring the Holy Spirit who is here to reveal all truth to us and comfort us when we make mistakes.

Telling myself I'm happy and not focusing on myself but on others and spending time with God saved me.

I'm curious, rizen1...do you believe in coincidence?

You sound like a man who believes that suffering is part coincidence, and the other part due to our "missing it" or "screwing up". That's curious to me, as I felt I related to so much of the other things you said here.

For your second quote, your "telling yourself your happy" sounds very Tony Robbins'ish to me. Self-help...pull yourself up by your bootstraps, etc. Again, curious how that meshes with the other stuff you said.

I'm not saying that's "right" or "wrong"...but I just wonder about it. It seems to me that even your "self-help" stuff, to the extent that works (hey...you say it did, so I'll take it at face value), can only be allowed if God wills it. You know, He can change our hearts, or redirect our thoughts, etc. Faith, in and of itself, is a gift given to us by God. I don't mean to sound too calvinistic here...but I don't believe we have much ability, in our own right, to simply "pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps". I think there's a lot more going on behind the scenes.

I don't believe in coincidences. If you have any verses that would back up the fact that coincidences happen...would love to hear them.

 

[rizen1]

Every action have a reaction, and some come with a price. We give man to much credit. I have no idea of that guy you spoke of and i can assure you he is not the first to think it. My knowledge is from the bible i dont trust man whose heart is decietful. These motivational speakers and author are frauds, they mix common sense and their nonsense and call it a formula. Everything man needs to know is in the bible.

As a man thinketh in his heart so is he Proverbs 23:7

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6

I dont see this as self help but following scripture. A man who does not have a relationship with the father it would be self help for him.

Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. Romans 12:2
Don't allow the world to confuse you, if you meditate on scripture you'll be able to discern what is holy and acceptable from what is a new age imitation of scripture.

When we stop using the bible to prove what we believe is right, and use it to test what we believe we will find the answers to our many questions. The bible is not complicated humans are.

(I'm curious, rizen1...do you believe in coincidence? )

No i do not. You reap what you sow.

 

[Brother Mike]

coincindence

S.I.E

.but I don't believe we have much ability, in our own right, to simply "pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps". I think there's a lot more going on behind the scenes.

That is one of the problems S.I.E... believers do not want to take responsibility for what happens to them... It's all let God, and let God. God just works everything out for the good somehow... (Ya, only those who are in the place and called according to God's purpose or on the right path, in the will of God)

If I stay sick.. not my fault.... if I loose a loved one.. then God must have taken them under his own divine will...

Faulty doctrine is one that rips the power away from the Word... and believes natural things.

There are Laws of the spirit that God has set fourth so that you and I can have the victory... He sent his word, and healed us.. and delivered us from our own destruction. If we choose to ignore those laws and rules.. then it's to our own destruction, or something we did our self.

I have seen tons of post where people base their belief on things that have happened.. Yet they never considered or even did what the Word said to do... It's disobedience that causes the problems...

Just in these threads someone posted...

yet my depression, anxiety, and paranoia still is with me after many years.

It's MY depression, It's MY anxiety, and MY paranoia.. and it's still with me.......

by the way people talk, the way they write.. you can pinpoint exactly what they really believe... for out of the abundance of the Heart... your mouth is going to speak.... What you really believe will come out..

He claimed it's His.. He as taken ownership of it... What is God to do, when we are not in line with what he said???

We are told we have the mind of Christ... We are told we were Given the spirit of a sound mind... Not a mind of anxiety, not a mind of depression...

Yea... but that is nitpicking......!!!!

NO..... that is what you actually believe..... It's idle words.. Words that just come out. You will have to give an account of those words...

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth (not speak out) good things............

Death and life are in the power of the tongues.. It's our mouth that agrees with God or does not agree.... We are ignorant of the fact we are created in the image of God, and just like God, what we say really matters....

Mark 11:23 ................. but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

You believe your scared, you believe your depressed, it's "MY depression." Then Jesus told you.... You will have what you have said.... to ignore scripture is to one's own hurt.. to take lightly things and say they don't matter is going into your own destruction...

Num 14:20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:

Num 14:28 Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you:

Num 14:29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Israel Got exactly what they murmured and complained about...........What they said, is exactly what happened to them... it produced their death...

So, instead of just saying things happen... That it must be the will of God I continue to go through these things....that God must be teaching me something or using this for his greater purpose.... Why not do and say what the Word tells us to. Why not do that instead??
Instead of accusing God... Instead of looking at others that did not make it... Instead saying it did not work for me....

Do what the Word says.... Mediate day and night on the scriptures so that your belief begins to grow over what your going through..... Get your mouth in subjection to the Word and Spirit of God, or else you will not control what comes out of it..

Resist the devil.... with faith... speaking the word only... and not your circumstances.....after doing all... Stand!!! never to be moved... If fear comes on you... take control....SPEAK!!!! "I will not have fear in my life.. but that of peace, power and sound mind... MY God will see me through without fail.."

Don't go writing books on how God does not answer all prayer and it's his will to keep you sick.......... Try obedience first.....

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Brother Mike I sure would like to talk to you 20 years from now and see if you change your beliefs at all.In the meantime I would keep all the hurting people I know away from you because I care about them.
I don't see a speck of love in the law you are delivering.
You are just swapping bondage.
I'm not sure if you can see my signature but let me tell you friends are for comfort and enemies are for perfection.Sickness is just one more enemy to practice perfection on.I don't imagine you being very comforting to me at all.But if I wanted my perfection tested I would call you for sure.
You surely would have sided with Peter to prevent our Lord from going to the cross."No Jesus,we can make the law perfect I know we just need a few more jots here and there and maybe one more tittle".

There are Laws of the spirit that God has set fourth so that you and I can have the victory.

I agree and Jesus got that victory by ignoring Peters "because we can" doctrine.

 

[Brother Mike]

Love the Key to victory..

Thiscrosshurts

Brother Mike I sure would like to talk to you 20 years from now and see if you change your beliefs at all.In the meantime I would keep all the hurting people I know away from you because I care about them.
I don't see a speck of love in the law you are delivering.

Have you ever pastured a Church??
Ever watch people die you have prayed for??
Ever waste hours of your time with people that would rather wallow in misery than to do something about??

Do we say everything is going to be OK, and tell them God is working this out, knowing full well they are not even taking heed to scripture??

Did I not use scriptures... Should the scriptures be ignored?
Did I not give an example of answers?

Do what the Word says.... Mediate day and night on the scriptures so that your belief begins to grow over what your going through..... Get your mouth in subjection to the Word and Spirit of God, or else you will not control what comes out of it..

Resist the devil.... with faith... speaking the word only... and not your circumstances.....after doing all... Stand!!! never to be moved... If fear comes on you... take control....SPEAK!!!! "I will not have fear in my life.. but that of peace, power and sound mind... MY God will see me through without fail.."

15 years... now.. and I am more convinced than ever the Word is correct, and it's people that refuse to take heed and believe...

Now if I were going through things (and have lots) I would be thankful for someone pointing things out to me that I needed to change..
Lot's of people don't want to change... they want excuses to point out that it's not their fault...... they want to say what they want, pray the way the want, and behave the way they want.. they want to hold on to fear, and lay in bed night after night in worry.

That is not God's fault..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I don't understand why there's a need or want to believe God causes bad things...but if this makes my brothers and sisters happy, I'm not trying to change anyone's position.

In Is 45:7 God proclaims bluntly "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things."

"And we know that in all things (bad things included) God works for the good of those who love Him..." (Ro 8:28)

It's very difficult for us to wrap our minds around this, but it's still true: Because "God is Love" (1 Jn 4:8b), every decision He makes and every thing He allows is done in love for the benefit of His children, whether we understand what's happening or not.

SLE

 

[sojourn4Christ]

The Lord creates evil (but your choice to sin or not)

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isa 45:7)

Does God cause sickness as a test? what do you think?

No scripture that would indicate God would do that, or send the devil to do that.....

Of course God tests/tries/tempts us. For example,

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. (Gen 22:1, 2)

And of course satan also tests/tries/tempts us. For example,

Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. (1 Cor 7:5)

 

[Brother Mike]

God Test us..

sojourn4Christ

Of course God tests/tries/tempts us. For example,

The topic was sickness...... Was Abraham sick?? Did not Abraham not say him and the boy would return, knowing the outcome?

Jesus was taken by the Spirit to be tempted in the desert..
Did God make Jesus sick??

Israel was tried.... It took 40 years for a 11 day journey...
Did God make the sick??

Does anything God ask us to do not require faith??

Of course God tests/tries/tempts us. For example,
And of course satan also tests/tries/tempts us. For example,

Once again.. the Topic is sickness. So God and the devil are making us sick.. Working together as a team...God allows Satan, or tells Satan how to mess us up.... then God takes a few cases on the side himself, and brings the pain..



Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

God can not be tempted with EVIL..................
You think being sick is a good thing??


Tempted..... Greek peirazō
Thayer:
1) to try whether a thing can be done
1a) to attempt, endeavour
2) to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself

sojourn4Christ

We have already established in this "LONG" topic that every choice we make, how we treat others is important to God, and essential to spiritual Growth...

You have ignored everything else posted.....

The way I read your statement with your outlined quotes would indicate that God does cause sickness as a test, and so does the devil... You believe that two kingdoms can be divided As Jesus established they are not as Jesus was accused of using demonic power to heal... (Which has been covered)

Now, could you please give us the scripture where God causes sickness to test us....
I already posted Scriptures where God said he will send sickness, and in every case it was not to test, but destroy us..

Please produce the scripture.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Fraction]

I have chosen to delete my original post.

 

[agua]

Creation groans

We get sick because of the fall. We inherited the imperfection brought upon all creation. Possibly being unable to access the Tree of Life limits our health as well. The curse will be lifted in the new world.


Rom 8:20-22 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; (21) because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Gen 3:22-24 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"— (23) therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. (24) So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



Rev 22:2-3 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (3) And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

we have God's Word on it...

THE LORD CAN BRING SICKNESS/DISEASE:

Exodus 15:26, "...if thou wilt indeed hear the voice of the LORD thy God, and do things pleasing before him, and will hearken to his commands, and keep all his ordinances, no disease...shall I bring upon thee, for I am the LORD thy God that heals thee."

Every effect must have a cause. There is a reason why things happen in the body. Failure to live God’s way is the cause of most human miseries.

Exodus 23:25, "And thou shalt serve the LORD thy God, and I will bless thy bread and thy wine and thy water, and I will turn away sickness from you."


Deuteronomy 7:12,15, "And it shall come to pass when ye shall have heard these ordinances, and shall have kept and done them, that...the LORD thy God shall remove from thee all sickness."


Psalm 103:2-4, "Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all His praises. Who forgives all thy trangressions, who heals all thy diseases; He redeems thy life from corruption; who crowns thee with mercy and compassion."


Jeremiah 30:1, "For I will bring about thy healing, I will heal thee of thy grievous wound, saith the LORD."
​

 

[rizen1]

Does God cause sickness as a test ?

Is the question.

 

[Brother Mike]

God cause sickness as a test.

rizen1

Does God cause sickness as a test ?

Is the question .

Possible conclusion: (from all combined post)


1) God causes sickness. It was punishment for Sin, not for those that loved God.
Though I refuted that with studies in the Hebrew where it is proven that when translated only the Hebrew causative was considered. I also pointed out that later on in OT scripture and in the NT this was not that case but switched to Passive... (God allows, or God won't hear, God turns his back, no God, no hope) In other words, you reap what you sow...

If you just want to read the English and believe what it says, then God does cause sickness. Nothing Wrong with that stance. (Stay on God's "Good side".)


2) Does God use Sickness to test us.
Even though asked several times.. nobody has yet to produce a scripture stating that God uses sickness to test us. I did post several scripture that sickness was meant to kill and destroy us.. not test us.

3) Can a trail of faith also be sickness.
Any decision, any action we as Children of God make is important. How we respond to this world's junk is important. This includes sickness, and calamity. Do we stand in faith against the devil?? He is our adversary we are told. Do we put on the Armor of God?? Yes...
What overcomes the world... Our faith...
It's not God putting us through anything, but he sent his word to heal us, and deliver us from our destruction.... The Word delivers from, not puts us through evil things. We are told to believe, We are told we have what we say, We are told it's according to our faith. We are told not to fear, because our Lord has overcome for us.. Ignore these things to your own hurt.

4) Does God test us?

Yes!!! We have scripture that says he does.... Even though the scripture says God does not tempt any man (To try or test them, to put them through trials to check one's integrity) The scriptures says he does not do this with Evil........Sickness is evil...
All scripture stating God tried or tested was in connection to instruction to do something, to obey in something. Not some sickness put on you, or some horrible disaster to see how you would handle it.

God does not use sickness to test us!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[s.i.e.]

That is one of the problems S.I.E... believers do not want to take responsibility for what happens to them... It's all let God, and let God. God just works everything out for the good somehow...

BM: You sound like a man who has come to a conclusion that the way the world spins is very much dependent on what men do and don't do. You sound almost cynical about how far some Christians have taken that "let go / let God" motif. I get that, to a degree...but you sound as though you want to lean on the alternate explanation for things that happen: man's doing.

And that's where I'll separate from you.

Brother Mike I sure would like to talk to you 20 years from now and see if you change your beliefs at all.In the meantime I would keep all the hurting people I know away from you because I care about them.
I don't see a speck of love in the law you are delivering.
You are just swapping bondage.

Thiscrosshurts: right on. Totally agree. Would like to see that discussion (20 years forward) as well...and I also don't see love, but a swapping of bondage.

In Is 45:7 God proclaims bluntly "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things."

"And we know that in all things (bad things included) God works for the good of those who love Him..." (Ro 8:28)

Yep yep. Right on. Amen.

Have you ever pastured a Church??
Ever watch people die you have prayed for??
Ever waste hours of your time with people that would rather wallow in misery than to do something about??

I don't understand, BM. Are you saying this because you think it should somehow give you more credibility or authority, or something?

Wallowing in misery isn't the only option when faced with pain and suffering...but let's be clear: pain and suffering are unavoidable!

Unavoidable.

So, the question is, what do you do with it. And there's nothing in your repretoire of whatever you can dispense to folks, that would cause immunization from this. Because we're born into it. No matter what you want to think about your ability to rise "above the law" or whatever.

You prescribe denial. Some here, including myself, are prescribing a trusting, a leaning into, an accepting of grace and love through believing.

 

[s.i.e.]

2) Does God use Sickness to test us.Even though asked several times.. nobody has yet to produce a scripture stating that God uses sickness to test us. I did post several scripture that sickness was meant to kill and destroy us.. not test us.

Let's just do this -- at least for a second -- forget about the "test" proof. Let's just not take a position as to the why of sickness, or try to explain the meaning of it.

Ok: what do we know for sure? We KNOW sickness happens. We know it. It's a fact. And we KNOW that no one is immune from it.

Not only that, but let's now bring it to the WHO DONE IT question? As scriptures above clearly show, it is God. To not admit that is to live in denial, or under a false doctrine that allows for wild and wacky translation of the text.

So, for me anyways...I almost don't care about whether it's a test or not! That's almost trivial at this point, to me. We can speculate, or whatever...but it seems to me that as a potter shapes the clay, the potter has to do alot of crummy / bummer things (in the eyes of the clay) to get it looking like a masterpiece. It seems to me that to get the gold, you have to put it through the fire. So...make up your own conclusions on the why, if you like. But I don't think there should be any guessing as to the FACT of suffering, and the WHO as well.

What have you proved, BM, by trying to claim that the purpose of it is not to test us?

Do we stand in faith against the devil??

How about: do you stand in faith against God? (note the irony)

What overcomes the world... Our faith...

No. Wrong. "I"...as in Jesus...is what overcame the world. Not your faith in Him. He alone, has overcome the world. Our faith allows us to be on His team...but regardless, His overcoming the world HAS ALEADY BEEN DONE, and it was done unilaterally.

His victory did not require our participation or response.

John 16:33 "In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world"

oh...that's right...that's another verse where our Savior is pretty much assuring us that we will have trouble in this world.

The Word delivers from, not puts us through evil things.

Evil things, huh? So, you know what's evil and not, when it comes to things like sickness, death, and other "acts of God" (insurance speak, for natural disasters) that cause mass death?

Sickness is evil...

Hey...I don't like it either...but, again, evil? I have the flu, and it's evil? The devil caused cancer? The devil causes heart attacks, perhaps?

Wait a minute...the devil wants me to die?

Again, I think it the devil could have had it his way, he would have LOVED for us to have eaten from the Tree of Life, to live in this fallen world which he has dominion over forever and ever.

Think how much time that would have bought him? Revelation 12:12 explains that his short time is what has caused so much of his fury! "He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short"

Again, we might not like it, but sickness and death are ultimate grace, given to us by God, and free us into eternity.