I think you are unnecessarily complicating the issue Brother Nick, to "Love our Neighbour as ourselves" and "To treat others as we would want them to treat us" is a basic formula for the application of Justice and Compassion in our dealings with others , especially the poor and Oppressed. The God we serve is a God that has a marked Bias for the poor and oppressed and a marked bias against the Rich and Powerful, as such, it is relatively easy to apply Christs commandments in those situations of injustice and suffering which hundreds of millions of men, women and children find themselves in. Those enduring injustice and oppression need to have the yoke of bondage lifted from them, the hungry need to be fed, the thirsty supplied with water, the homeless housed, the stranger welcomed and the root causes of the burden of poverty and suffering that encompass so many needs to be addressed and as far as possible in this Evil world, corrected. I think we need to remember that in the main Christ delivered his message to ordinary, relatively simple folk and as such was easy to understand, indeed we are told that unless we accept the Kingdom of God as little children we will in no way enter into it. Let us not get too tied up in matters that i believe were intended for relatively uncomplicated applications.
I suppose i cant Brother Nick, i can only do what i believe is the best course of action in any given situation using the words of Christ to guide me. As to whether i would follow that road if it led to hardship and danger for myself and my family, thank God i havent yet been tested in that, i hope that i would stay true to my beliefs and convictions, to what i believe is the will of God, but until any of us are in that situation we cannot say in all honesty how we would act.
I believe that my Bias, should always be to the poor and the oppressed, as i believe God commands us to be, as such my actions in the application of Christs commandments should always reflect that bias unless there are specific teachings to the contrary. And we will have to agree to disagree on Acts 5:29 Brother Nick, i see it as telling us to follow the law of the Land only in as much as it doesnt conflict with the teachings and Commandments of our Faith. You i believe see it as a blanket acceptance of the Laws of the land even if by following them you contravene Christs teachings. I hope ive got that right, except in the matter of the Freedom to propagate the Gospel. I must admit i am somewhat confused as to the validity of Earthly Governments. On the one hand you have the Devil offering Christ "All the Kingdoms of the world because they are mine to give to whom i choose", which would imply ALL earthly kingdoms are in the Devils control, conversely we have St Paul saying we must obey Earthly Governments because they are put there by God.Are they indeed instigated directly by God or does God by allowing the Devil control of Earthly kingdoms use his power that way to bring about the destruction of this Earth through our own sinfulness.?
Thats true Brother Nick, no one is stopping me from spreading the word of God, but the actions of the US and UK Governments are, as i see it, directly contrary to Christs teachings on "welcoming the Stranger" and " Loving your Neighbour as yourself" and "treating others as you'd want to be treated". As such i must speak out and act against what i see as evil policies. To do any less would be an abrogation of the faith i profess to follow, and i believe that yes, every enforcement action in this respect is a violation of "Obey God rather than men", for when i see families being ripped apart, when i see people so desperate that they risk their lives to seek safety or a better life, when i see forced deportations and mass arrests, then that to me is a violation of Christs commandments and teachings on how we should treat the poor and oppressed.
I dont think "We can hold a wide range of good-faith views on immigration policy while submitting to the rule of law." Brother Nick, if submitting to the "Rule of Law" means going against the teachings of the saviour we profess to follow. His words in Matthew 25:31-46, "The Sheep and the Goats" go far further than saying "Love your Neighbour" and "Treat others as you'd want to be treated", for in that passage Christ says that in the form of the poor, the hungry, the sick, the STRANGER, you see him, and when you help them you help him and will be saved, but when you ignore them, you ignore him and will be condemned, how many Christs do you think we can ignore because the law of the Land says we must and not be condemned for so doing ?.
But that again opens up a Pandoras Box of Subjectivity Brother Nick, for we can each believe we are being guided by the Holy Spirit and that our contraventions of Christs teachings are based on Divine inspiration, and again, as illustrated here, we all have our different interpretations of Scripture and what it means, Acts5:29 is just one example, and i know that "loving your neighbour as yourself" and "treating others as you'd want to betreated" are also highly subjective, but nearly all of us, probably ALL Christians if they were honest, would want to be fed if they and their families were hungry, would want shelter if homeless, would want water if thirsty and would want to be welcomed if fleeing, persecution, violence or poverty. Some may say differently, and i wish i could take them and their families and make them live in those situations of suffering, poverty and destruction for a year, and then see what take they have on Christs words, i'd imagine it could be a lot differnt.
But what of my question Brother Nick, do you believe its right to take off someone, perhaps unwillingly, they may disagree on moral or religious grounds, in the form of taxation, for spending on Defence or the Police, if that taxation is duly implemented through a democratic process?. And if you do, then whats the difference in taking money off someone in the form of taxation, for the spending on Social security, welfare and overseas Aid, provided that taxation is also implemented through a democratic process?
Yes i have amended my giving accordingly Brother Nick to more reflect my Christian values. To be honest there was always something lacking, something gnawing inside my head that what i was doing wasnt quite right, it took your prompting to finally make me see that, and many thanks for that
You misunderstand me Brother Nick, i'm not about "blowing up the Government", for i do not believe in violence, but that again is another very controversial topic, my attempts at change are limited to supporting Campaigning groups that go about their work in a peaceful and mainly legal manner. I do believe there are times when peaceful but illegal protest is justified, Christ was crucified because he went against the powers that be, and as in the moneylenders in the Temple, his actions were not always peaceful, but sit ins, and demonstrations, non violent in Nature are justified when facing unjust and evil laws and situations. In my youth i was involved in violent actions, not against people, but property, but i see now how wrong those actions were, both from a moral and practical view, morally they contravene the teachings of Christ and could easily have escalated into something more destructive, practically, they enabled others to paint us as nothing more than mindless vandals intent on destruction, so yes, i see the wrong in violence and do not wish to see anything "blown up", well not in the societal structures i live in atm, but if i had had the chance to blow up the train lines leading to Auschwitz, or the gas chambers themselves, would i have pressed the trigger, yes i surely would.
Amen to that Brother Nick!
Again i think we will have to agree to disagree Brother Nick, unless you can show me specific Scripture in support of your position, the way i see it there are no man made limits, and yes i understand you see nation states as God created whereas i see them as evil entities under the control of Satan, but regardless of that, i believe our call to Compassion and justice encompasses ALL of Gods creation. What happens to that starving child in Sudan is as much importance as a child starving here in the uK, the only difference is there are millions of Children starving in Sudan and very few, if hardly none at all starving in the UK, the disproportionate effects of Poverty and suffering are felt mainly in countries far away from my rich and comfortable life here in the UK, as possibly your life is in the US, but the effects of policy decisions taken here in the uK and in the US have massive effects on those living in the poorest countries. As such i believe our call to Justice and Mercy must include not only the effects of evil ,but the causes of Evil, and i try to fight those causes wherever they may occur, be it the Uk, the US, China, the UAE, Iran ,or wherever in this world of suffering and death i can try to make a difference and bring Gods light of Justice and compassion into the darkness. For as the founder of Amnesty said, "There is not enough darkness in the world to put out the light of a single candle".
Time has caught up with me again Brother Nick, Sorry, but it has been fascinating and deeply challenging to read and reply to your points, and thats good, for it makes us think and question our own beliefs which over time can become more influenced by the culture/Politics/morality of the society around us than by Christs teaching. I will just say that on this issue. i dont believe that any system founded on Evil, as i believe Capitalism to be, as its motivated by greed and selfishness, should be supported by Christians whatever its perceived short term benefits, for that evil will ultimately consume those that implement it and those that are complicit in its application. but i'll have to stop here and if you could leave your reply until ive finished the second part which should be on Tuesday, God willing, that would be greatly appreciated.
With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick
Steve
