Do some believers "habitually" sin by their own admission?

[regibassman57]

Does scripture teach that believers sin habitually or not?

This question is asked to confirm or discredit the words of those that believe Christians "do not" habitually sin.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God does not sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
Scitprures teach that Paul sinned habitually. Paul asked God three times for help.

Rom 7:15 “For you see, I habitually produce what I by no means understand because I by no means habitually practice the very thing that I habitually desire to do. On the contrary I habitually commit the very thing that I do hate.”
Rom. 7:16 “However, if, and let us assume that it is true for the sake of argument I habitually commit the very thing that I by no means habitually desire to do as I’ve already admitted to. Then, I do agree with the Law. I do testify that it is, as an eternal spiritual truth perfect.”

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

 

[bibleguy]

@Life,
Scitprures teach that Paul sinned habitually. Paul asked God three times for help.

Rom 7:15 “For you see, I habitually produce what I by no means understand because I by no means habitually practice the very thing that I habitually desire to do. On the contrary I habitually commit the very thing that I do hate.”
Rom. 7:16 “However, if, and let us assume that it is true for the sake of argument I habitually commit the very thing that I by no means habitually desire to do as I’ve already admitted to. Then, I do agree with the Law. I do testify that it is, as an eternal spiritual truth perfect.”

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

Hello,

You are wrong! Paul did not routinely habitually sin!

If Paul routinely habitually sinned, then WE would be commanded to do likewise (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9) which, of course, would be absurd and untrue.

Romans 7 is simply describing the PROCESS by which a person can become more fully aware of the nature of good, evil, sin, the law, the Spirit, and freedom in Christ.

Was Paul already "set free" 10 minutes before he wrote Romans 7? Of course he was!

Thus, Romans 7 is a description of a process, not a confession that Paul routinely habitually sins.

The process results in a person being "set free" (Rom. 7:24) through Jesus (Rom. 7:25).

You've misunderstood the communication style Paul is using in Romans 7.

By the way, when Paul is "set free" (Rom. 7:24), then guess what happens? Paul CONTINUES to obey TORAH (Rom. 7:25).

And Paul goes on to describe the FLESH and the SPIRIT (Rom. 8).

The FLESH disobeys Torah (Rom. 8:7). Thus, as Paul lives by the Spirit, he OBEYS Torah.

We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9) and likewise be set free from the law of sin and death so that we may live by the Spirit in obedience to the Torah of blessing and life.

After all, Paul applies Dt. 30 to YOU (Rom. 10:8).

And what does Dt. 30 declare? Answer: You must CHOOSE to obey the Torah of blessing and life!

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
You can address the person that wrote his interpretation of Romans 7:15, 16.
What I know without interpretation is you and every other Christian who are babes in Christ habitually "sin" (according to your own adminssion and others that say they sin). Until you learn and are delivered from that habitual sins you commit, you will habitually sin unil you are delivered. You sin unintentionally and intentionally by your own admission. If you sin three times a month you are a habitual sinner.

Another problem with your interpretation of 1John 3:6 and 9; it is not specific to one, many or the same sins when it speak in the habitual sense. A believer sins often the same sin after being tempted, (it doesn't matter if you ask for forgiveness or not) but they often sin in a variety of ways until they learn. Those that say a born again believer does not commit habitual sins are not truthful themselves and are in unintentional sin by their own admission; sometime the same sin in thoughts or in deeds; intentional or unintentional..

Scritpures teach many of the members in the churches at that time habitually sinned. The Corinthian Church and the Galatians Church specifically says, if members continue to do certain sins, which are habitual, they will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.So, the point i'm making is 1John 3:6 and 9 is not saying a believer "does not' and "cannot" habitually sin.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
You can address the person that wrote his interpretation of Romans 7:15, 16.
What I know without interpretation is you and every other Christian who are babes in Christ habitually "sin" (according to your own adminssion and others that say they sin). Until you learn and are delivered from that habitual sins you commit, you will habitually sin unil you are delivered. You sin unintentionally and intentionally by your own admission. If you sin three times a month you are a habitual sinner.

Another problem with your interpretation of 1John 3:6 and 9; it is not specific to one, many or the same sins when it speak in the habitual sense. A believer sins often the same sin after being tempted, (it doesn't matter if you ask for forgiveness or not) but they often sin in a variety of ways until they learn. Those that say a born again believer does not commit habitual sins are not truthful themselves and are in unintentional sin by their own admission; sometime the same sin in thoughts or in deeds; intentional or unintentional..

Scritpures teach many of the members in the churches at that time habitually sinned. The Corinthian Church and the Galatians Church specifically says, if members continue to do certain sins, which are habitual, they will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.So, the point i'm making is 1John 3:6 and 9 is not saying a believer "does not' and "cannot" habitually sin.

Hi!

You wrote: "So, the point i'm making is 1John 3:6 and 9 is not saying a believer "does not' and "cannot" habitually sin."

My response: So you now agree that believers sometimes sin?

I thought you oppose that idea?

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
You didn't read what I wrote in my last post. Read what's in red which you missed in the post you replied about without reading.

You can address the person that wrote his interpretation of Romans 7:15, 16.
What I know without interpretation is you and every other Christian who are babes in Christ habitually "sin" (according to your own adminssion and others that say they sin). Until you learn and are delivered from that habitual sins you commit, you will habitually sin unil you are delivered. You sin unintentionally and intentionally by your own admission. If you sin three times a month you are a habitual sinner.

You wrote: My response: "So you now agree that believers sometimes sin?"

Of course I do not agree. You and other say you sin and are speaking on 1John 3:6 and 9, but you and the others are habitually sinning daily. 1John 3:6 and 9 (according to you) states believer do not continue to commit sin). I can read your post and see your pride and baseless anger. According to your interpretation of scripture you are sinning. You holding fast to the "whole law of Moses" are not able to keep the Mosaic Law perfectly. If you offend in one point of the law, you are guilty of all the law. You habitually break the law period; because you do not keep the keep the law perfectly.

You didn't address what i wrote here: Scritpures teach many of the members in the churches at that time habitually sinned. The Corinthian Church and the Galatians Church specifically says, if members continue to do certain sins (as they did), which are habitual, they will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. So, the point i'm making is 1John 3:6 and 9 is not saying a believer "does not' and "cannot" habitually sin. They do habitually sin.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
You didn't read what I wrote in my last post. Read what's in red which you missed in the post you replied about without reading.

You can address the person that wrote his interpretation of Romans 7:15, 16.
What I know without interpretation is you and every other Christian who are babes in Christ habitually "sin" (according to your own adminssion and others that say they sin). Until you learn and are delivered from that habitual sins you commit, you will habitually sin unil you are delivered. You sin unintentionally and intentionally by your own admission. If you sin three times a month you are a habitual sinner.

You wrote: My response: "So you now agree that believers sometimes sin?"

Of course I do not agree. You and other say you sin and are speaking on 1John 3:6 and 9, but you and the others are habitually sinning daily. 1John 3:6 and 9 (according to you) states believer do not continue to commit sin). I can read your post and see your pride and baseless anger. According to your interpretation of scripture you are sinning. You holding fast to the "whole law of Moses" are not able to keep the Mosaic Law perfectly. If you offend in one point of the law, you are guilty of all the law. You habitually break the law period; because you do not keep the keep the law perfectly.

You didn't address what i wrote here: Scritpures teach many of the members in the churches at that time habitually sinned. The Corinthian Church and the Galatians Church specifically says, if members continue to do certain sins (as they did), which are habitual, they will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. So, the point i'm making is 1John 3:6 and 9 is not saying a believer "does not' and "cannot" habitually sin. They do habitually sin.

Hi!

I still don't understand.

You said: "They do habitually sin." (referring to believers)

But then I'm pretty sure you previously stated that you do NOT believe that believers sin.

That's why I'm asking!

Have you changed your position on this issue?

Thanks....

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
You and many other Christians on this forum say that you sin. I said, "1John 3:6" and "1John 3:9" teaches a believer "does not" or "cannot sin." Your posts and those that agree with you say, "1John 3:6" and "1John 3:9" teaches, a believer "cannot" and "does not" habitually sin; I disagreed. I showed you believer, as well as yourself, habitually sins because you habitually break the law. You as well as other break the law over 15 times a year.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
You and many other Christians on this forum say that you sin. I said, "1John 3:6" and "1John 3:9" teaches a believer "does not" or "cannot sin." Your posts and those that agree with you say, "1John 3:6" and "1John 3:9" teaches, a believer "cannot" and "does not" habitually sin; I disagreed. I showed you believer, as well as yourself, habitually sins because you habitually break the law. You as well as other break the law over 15 times a year.

Hi!

Thanks for trying to clarify for me....sorry I'm getting confused!

Ok...looks like you're saying that I habitually sin because, for example, I break the law "over 15 times a year"

How do you know I break the law over 15 times a year?

Where does that idea come from?

blessings...

 

[Mechie]

Hi!

Thanks for trying to clarify for me....sorry I'm getting confused!

Ok...looks like you're saying that I habitually sin because, for example, I break the law "over 15 times a year"

How do you know I break the law over 15 times a year?

Where does that idea come from?

blessings...

Jesus said, "if you think something is a sin then it is a sin for you, even if God says it isn't a sin". Part of sinning is our beliefs, and then God's absolute, unchanging Law, the 10 Commandments. God says if you love Me, you'll obey me. God measures our love for Him by how we treat others.

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy, @Mechie (you can ask some question if you like and get in on this)
Let me clarify. There is no one on this forum that keeps the law of God perfectly in thought and actions daily. Without the Grace of God it is impossible.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in "one point," he is guilty of all.

Every person in this forum or even the world has been guilty of not keeping God's law perfectly; daily, weekly; monthly, etc. If a person desires, they can correct me in Christ. If you consistantly miss the mark by breaking the law (which every man does habitually) only God's Grace of non-imputation of sins can keep a man in a relationship with God.

Sin separates man from God. The punishment only chastened the people that they might learn obedience. It was sin that separated man from God the punishment is not sin. The separation ended when Jesus took away the sins of the world that caused the separation. The punishment didn't cause the separation..

 

[regibassman57]

@Mechie,
I didn't see your post before I wrote to bibleguy.

You said: Jesus said, "if you think something is a sin then it is a sin for you, even if God says it isn't a sin". Part of sinning is our beliefs, and then God's absolute, unchanging Law, the 10 Commandments. God says if you love Me, you'll obey me. God measures our love for Him by how we treat others.

Where did you get this? “even if God says it isn't a sin".

Yes part of sinning is our belief; but if God is not imputing sin unto a man, why would a man say they sin? I agree a believer must keep the 10 commandments and love is the character of Christ; which without no man shall live forever.

 

[this human]

If any of us say we do all things well we are a liar and the truth is not in us. Thanks be to God/Jesus who has done all things well and will.

 

[regibassman57]

@this human,
You do not understand what non-imputation of sin is neither what Jesus means by His term of unfruitful works; if you did you would not say what you have.
No person on this forum have ever said they do all things well.

Understand the conclusion of the whole matter otherwise if you do not you are not thinking or speaking well.