Member
It is true even in Jewish tradition that if the marriage was never consummated then you weren't considered married. I heard that before, I don't remember the source. I hope it's not misinformation.
Divorce
Member
sorry to bring up and old topic but..
I have a question. I have been a christian all my life. Had several turn overs. born again or convictions if you may call it. Once at a Youth camp when I was 13 or something and then after messing up my life I turned to god once more at the age of 18. Then I fell again away from him ( partly). During my life I have had sexual relations with several woman between and after both my turn arounds.
I have turned away from that path however and aligned myself with Jesus again.
Question is this then:
Since I have comitted adultery and been one after I became a new person in Christ does this mean I can never marry because it would mean adultery?
I have a question. I have been a christian all my life. Had several turn overs. born again or convictions if you may call it. Once at a Youth camp when I was 13 or something and then after messing up my life I turned to god once more at the age of 18. Then I fell again away from him ( partly). During my life I have had sexual relations with several woman between and after both my turn arounds.
I have turned away from that path however and aligned myself with Jesus again.
Question is this then:
Since I have comitted adultery and been one after I became a new person in Christ does this mean I can never marry because it would mean adultery?
Member
Hello Chinaski,
The bible teaches us that "God did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" Men can only be saved from their sins through Jesus. You need to have a desire to follow Jesus, then you will be able to Overcome.
Just had a call......I have to go. But you are in my prayers brother.
Forget the past.......Press on in Jesus.
God Bless You
The bible teaches us that "God did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" Men can only be saved from their sins through Jesus. You need to have a desire to follow Jesus, then you will be able to Overcome.
Just had a call......I have to go. But you are in my prayers brother.
Forget the past.......Press on in Jesus.
God Bless You
Member
I don"t think,many understand the new birth.No sin ever touch the true us,once we are born of GOD!But,sins still have an affect on our flesh.it can suffer because of sin.But,if we ask our lORd to forgive us,HE will.and it will spare the flesh from more suffering.
The spirit once born of GOD,is protected fiorever more!1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
this is our spirit being!
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
we obey laws of this earth,for the LORDS SAKE!of course,the world will punish us,if we break there laws also,if the LORD does not protect us???
the things of the flesh are forv the flesh.the things of the spirit are for the spirit!
if we love our LORD,We will want to please HIM.But,by not walking in our spirits,The flesh will always sin.We must try too walk in our new creature,that we never sin again.Still,we live in liberty,and freedom.That is not too say?we can sin as the flesh wants.because,if we refuse to listen to GODS HOLY SPIRIT,after a time of rebellion,We may well be taken out iof the way.But,We do not lose our salvation ,Once BORN OF GOD!
The spirit once born of GOD,is protected fiorever more!1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
this is our spirit being!
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
we obey laws of this earth,for the LORDS SAKE!of course,the world will punish us,if we break there laws also,if the LORD does not protect us???
the things of the flesh are forv the flesh.the things of the spirit are for the spirit!
if we love our LORD,We will want to please HIM.But,by not walking in our spirits,The flesh will always sin.We must try too walk in our new creature,that we never sin again.Still,we live in liberty,and freedom.That is not too say?we can sin as the flesh wants.because,if we refuse to listen to GODS HOLY SPIRIT,after a time of rebellion,We may well be taken out iof the way.But,We do not lose our salvation ,Once BORN OF GOD!
Member
Hi There and God Bless
I know in my situation that I cannot leave my marriage, I was a sinner when we married but now I am born again, God tells me to stay where I am, If he chooses to leave I will be ok but If I was to leave that I would be repeating my same mistakes. God Bless You
I know in my situation that I cannot leave my marriage, I was a sinner when we married but now I am born again, God tells me to stay where I am, If he chooses to leave I will be ok but If I was to leave that I would be repeating my same mistakes. God Bless You
Member
Well,OUR LORD,understands,if the marriage has turned evil.then,we must leave.But,we are joined with our mate,spiritually.Some marriages,should not stay together,if evil things are taking place.But,we must [pray about it and seek HIS leading.Because,it is true,we are to stay,if it does not get too bad!because,marriage is for as long *** we live.But,we can judge it!
Member
I feel like in my situation it would be wrong to leave, I am more spiritual than my husband this is the hard part of our marriage, I just became a Born Again Christian this Year and I am still learning, I know I was a sinner when we married and was the whole 5 yrs we were together, He has a hard time understanding this new transformation in my life in my thinking in my character. He feels he has to work all the time this was our problem before I was a Christian. His Timing and my Timing are just not in sync. I let God Guide my decisions. His Will be done. God Bless You
Member
Well I read somewhere recently that divorce with christians are rampant these days and they are remarrying which is really interesting.
Cause from all I ever heard and understand is that a christian can divorce for only sexual immortality/unfaithrulness.
So if this is the case and say the injured party is a christian she/he must keep herself/himself to himself cause if they remarry they are then a adulterer/adulterous??????
So I'm surprised that born again christians are divorcing and re-marrying and seeing it as not a issue.
Now I know of people who are divorced and don't think they are now allowed to get saved which is of course not true cause once you get saved all your pass sins are wiped clean and God never remembers then again.
Cause from all I ever heard and understand is that a christian can divorce for only sexual immortality/unfaithrulness.
So if this is the case and say the injured party is a christian she/he must keep herself/himself to himself cause if they remarry they are then a adulterer/adulterous??????
So I'm surprised that born again christians are divorcing and re-marrying and seeing it as not a issue.
Now I know of people who are divorced and don't think they are now allowed to get saved which is of course not true cause once you get saved all your pass sins are wiped clean and God never remembers then again.
Member
My concern and frustration is that My husband cant see the inner me well this is what he said when I asked him.
People use to see the outer me because I protrayed the outer me. Now I want people to see the inner me, He gets so aggervated when I try to get him to see.
I was baptised May 3rd 2006 to be for Christ all the way, No Matter what the Journey is gonna be about, Its just sad that I cant get people to see what I see.
I told my husband I wasent budgeing that as a christian I have to go the distance, If he chooses to leave I cannot stop this, but my part as a christian is to try and show him the path to rightiousness. The walk is hard and painful but well worth it for the man that died for our sins.
Every since I was baptised I notice the satan knows he lost my soul he tries to work through my husband. Thank God Jesus saved me because satan lost.
Christ won my soul. With Gods guidence I will perservere knowing God knows my heart.
I pray for Gods Will to be done through me.
God Bless You
People use to see the outer me because I protrayed the outer me. Now I want people to see the inner me, He gets so aggervated when I try to get him to see.
I was baptised May 3rd 2006 to be for Christ all the way, No Matter what the Journey is gonna be about, Its just sad that I cant get people to see what I see.
I told my husband I wasent budgeing that as a christian I have to go the distance, If he chooses to leave I cannot stop this, but my part as a christian is to try and show him the path to rightiousness. The walk is hard and painful but well worth it for the man that died for our sins.
Every since I was baptised I notice the satan knows he lost my soul he tries to work through my husband. Thank God Jesus saved me because satan lost.
Christ won my soul. With Gods guidence I will perservere knowing God knows my heart.
I pray for Gods Will to be done through me.
God Bless You
Member
How about me?
Divorce is horrible. No doubt about that. But I have a question. I have a similar situation. I was a believer and married and un-believer. I had a massive crisis of faith and left the Lord for 10 months. It was the most horrible time of my life.
Anyway, now my husband has decided he doesn't love me and wants to divorce me. We've been separated, then tried to make a go of it, then he told me again that he doesn't love me, is still mad at me for some mistakes I made when we were dating and that he wants a divorce.
I've asked God's forgiveness for the way I treated my husband while I was turned away from the Lord. I have done everything I can to maintain my temper, not to push him away with preachiness, and to love him. I know that since he's the unbeliever, I'm free to marry whoever I want should he leave.
PROBLEM IS, he won't finalize the divorce. He submitted the papers to do it, then didn't sign them so the tribe (we're American Indian) sent them back. He said he didn't know he needed to sign. He wants sex from me all the time, but whenever I ask if he still wants to divorce me he says yes. Time and again I'm reminded he doesn't love me. He brings up old hurts just to torment me.
My question is, is it a sin for me to do the final paperwork? My husband has divorced me emotionally and except for wanting sex all the time, physically as well. He barely helps me with money for the kids. Is it a sin to finalize what he's started?
I don't believe in divorce, and I would never leave him. But he's already checked out in so many ways, and makes feel so used when he wants sex all the time. Then the other night he told me he feels used, because we had sex and I had quit my birth control after he had mailed those papers (which were bogus). I'm starting to get really depressed.
I don't want that! Any advice??? I know all the basic Scripture verses. Anybody have any insight. I want to be able to remarry someday. I don't know what to do.
Divorce is horrible. No doubt about that. But I have a question. I have a similar situation. I was a believer and married and un-believer. I had a massive crisis of faith and left the Lord for 10 months. It was the most horrible time of my life.
Anyway, now my husband has decided he doesn't love me and wants to divorce me. We've been separated, then tried to make a go of it, then he told me again that he doesn't love me, is still mad at me for some mistakes I made when we were dating and that he wants a divorce.
I've asked God's forgiveness for the way I treated my husband while I was turned away from the Lord. I have done everything I can to maintain my temper, not to push him away with preachiness, and to love him. I know that since he's the unbeliever, I'm free to marry whoever I want should he leave.
PROBLEM IS, he won't finalize the divorce. He submitted the papers to do it, then didn't sign them so the tribe (we're American Indian) sent them back. He said he didn't know he needed to sign. He wants sex from me all the time, but whenever I ask if he still wants to divorce me he says yes. Time and again I'm reminded he doesn't love me. He brings up old hurts just to torment me.
My question is, is it a sin for me to do the final paperwork? My husband has divorced me emotionally and except for wanting sex all the time, physically as well. He barely helps me with money for the kids. Is it a sin to finalize what he's started?
I don't believe in divorce, and I would never leave him. But he's already checked out in so many ways, and makes feel so used when he wants sex all the time. Then the other night he told me he feels used, because we had sex and I had quit my birth control after he had mailed those papers (which were bogus). I'm starting to get really depressed.
I don't want that! Any advice??? I know all the basic Scripture verses. Anybody have any insight. I want to be able to remarry someday. I don't know what to do.
Member
Hey Chad,
Excellent work on the subject of divorce. I agree. So many people take Matt 19 and try to take what was under the Law and apply it to the church and worldly people. When Christ died, he died for the sins of the world, abolished the Law and now we are all under the law of Love. Additionally, the church and the gentile world never were under the Law and it was for the Jews only until our Savior could be born into this earth. Once Jesus died and rose again, the law and all its demands were satisfied in Christ and the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is not under the Law period.
Divorce was covered in his death and people who have gotten a divorce do not need to live under condemnation any more. Like the contrast in Romans chapter 7 Paul was using marriage to illustrate that when the husband dies, the wife is no longer under the law of marriage. Well, like that wife, the church is dead to the Law and now we are not obligated to the rules and stipulations of the Law. We are now all in Christ and we are to live under the Law of love. Love fulfils the Law. If you really walk in Agape love you will do nothing to hurt your mate. It’s an unconditional love! However, we all know that people make mistakes, have been in bad marriages and if they are divorced they are not to be under condemnation about it. They should be restored, welcomed in the church and allowed to serve anywhere, or even fulfill a five fold calling if so. If they have had many divorces I would highly recommend they take the time to study and learn how to get along with someone else. They need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them to love.
God bless you and have a very happy New Year. I do not know where you go to church, but reading your post, you have a great pastor and you must study on a regular basis.
Excellent work on the subject of divorce. I agree. So many people take Matt 19 and try to take what was under the Law and apply it to the church and worldly people. When Christ died, he died for the sins of the world, abolished the Law and now we are all under the law of Love. Additionally, the church and the gentile world never were under the Law and it was for the Jews only until our Savior could be born into this earth. Once Jesus died and rose again, the law and all its demands were satisfied in Christ and the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is not under the Law period.
Divorce was covered in his death and people who have gotten a divorce do not need to live under condemnation any more. Like the contrast in Romans chapter 7 Paul was using marriage to illustrate that when the husband dies, the wife is no longer under the law of marriage. Well, like that wife, the church is dead to the Law and now we are not obligated to the rules and stipulations of the Law. We are now all in Christ and we are to live under the Law of love. Love fulfils the Law. If you really walk in Agape love you will do nothing to hurt your mate. It’s an unconditional love! However, we all know that people make mistakes, have been in bad marriages and if they are divorced they are not to be under condemnation about it. They should be restored, welcomed in the church and allowed to serve anywhere, or even fulfill a five fold calling if so. If they have had many divorces I would highly recommend they take the time to study and learn how to get along with someone else. They need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them to love.
God bless you and have a very happy New Year. I do not know where you go to church, but reading your post, you have a great pastor and you must study on a regular basis.
Member
Being one flesh does not mean you are permenantly joined to that person. It means you are joined together as a couple at the time you are married. Once you divorce or separate, you are no longer one flesh or joined in Spirit with that person. Anyway, there is no marriage in Heaven so it would not make a difference once you get there.
I have been married 31 years and I do not advocate divorce, but it happens and God does not beat you up for the rest of your life if you divorce. Once it’s over, it’s over. Now, divorce brings complications, such as children, money problems ect, and it negatively effects everyone, but the church world as a whole has put to many people in bondage over legalistic ideas, down right spooky teachings and over spiritualizing our life here on earth. Yes, I understand that the divorce involves the tearing apart of a union, but to think you are united forever is not true. God is a whole lot more compassionate than that toward us.
I have been married 31 years and I do not advocate divorce, but it happens and God does not beat you up for the rest of your life if you divorce. Once it’s over, it’s over. Now, divorce brings complications, such as children, money problems ect, and it negatively effects everyone, but the church world as a whole has put to many people in bondage over legalistic ideas, down right spooky teachings and over spiritualizing our life here on earth. Yes, I understand that the divorce involves the tearing apart of a union, but to think you are united forever is not true. God is a whole lot more compassionate than that toward us.
Member
it is a question of the spirit.we are joined spiritually when married.
Marriage is holy too GOD!
Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1Co 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
You see?It will not afect our spirits but it will afect our flesh. many are sick because of remarrying .i know been married 3 times.
Marriage is holy too GOD!
Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1Co 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
You see?It will not afect our spirits but it will afect our flesh. many are sick because of remarrying .i know been married 3 times.
Member
Ok everyone...brace yourselves!!
Good afternoon to all of you from a very chilly and windy London!
I have just been reading the thread on divorce, I guess, trying to get some clarity and/or guidance on the subject - which is very close to my heart at the moment. I have read and re-read Jesus' teachings in Mark 10, and listened to the sermon at church, and talked with the vicar, whom I get along with and like very much. He has been a great friend to both myself and my kids.
I am 34 years old, currently seperated from my husband, Max, whom I love very much. He left the family home back in July, but we agreed not to apply for a divorce. I will try briefly to explain the reasons for this as I go on.
I was first married when I was 20, and my dad had to give consent to the marriage! My husband and I had a great time, the marriage was based on a mutual love of booze! Then I got pregnant with our son, so the boozing stopped on my part. I guess I had to grow up! After a difficult pregnancy, we were blessed with a baby boy, called Richard (now a big boy of 12yrs!) My husband's interest in other women increased, and after two affairs that I knew of and a sexual assault on a babysitter, I moved out with Richard and divorced him.
I then met my second husband, Roy. He was a lot older than me, had custody of his four children and had also divorced due to his wife's adultery. I fell head over heels in love with him, and we were married within a year. I thought he was my true soulmate. However, the violence and verbal abuse escalated over 3 1/2 years, I suffered many injuries including broken fingers, I was set on fire and repeatedly sexually and psychologically assaulted. Naturally, I lost custody of my son, I couldn't even protect myself, let alone a child.
I turned to drugs then, and, thank the lord, I became pregnant with my daughter, although it was a very, very bad idea at the time. I got sober (the lord touched my life then, for sure) but the assaults continued, and he even pointed a gun at my stomach when I was 7 months pregnant. I had finally had enough when he refused to let me breastfeed the baby in the night and threatened to 'punch her lights out'. He told me that if I ever left, he would letter-bomb my parents' house and find me and kill me. Now, I wholeheartedly believe in the sacred state of marriage, and he had comitted no adultery, but I still feel guilty about the divorce and my subsequent remarriage in 2003. Surely, in The Lord's eyes, I could not be expected to live like that, and condemn my daughter to that life too? These days, I have a great relationship with my son, although I didn't see him for a long time.
I moved from my native Manchester with my baby daughter 250 miles away, five years ago. It was a good move! I immediately joined a church and began searching for Christ...I can truly say that He found me five years later and I became a true believer. I talk to God all the time (He must be sick of me whining!! ) But I feel 'stained' by my divorces, and my current seperation - my husband was getting very moody, shouting a lot and we never saw him. He made me feel inferior to other, more attractive women. He never, ever had time for us. I'll be honest - I just wasn't prepared to live like that again, not at all, ever! And he didn't like my son. I became a Christian after he left, and it's the best thing I ever did - I feel real peace, something I never knew before. I have asked for forgiveness for my own actions, and I forgive the actions of my first two husbands. But I don't know - am I 'damaged goods' in the sight of the Lord?
My daughter was baptised in September last year, I felt I had to come clean with the minister about my past. My husband was too busy racing boats to come at stand at our side during the ceremony - he is the only dad she's ever known! Oh yes...and he is involved with the church of Scientology, his personal choice, and that's fine. But I want a Christian upbringing for my girl. There has already been some friction there!:lightning
So, I just don't know. I feel better getting it all out, and if Christ can forgive me, perhaps I should forgive myself...Anyway, thank you so much for listening, and God Bless all of you.
Love from your friend, Rachel xx
Good afternoon to all of you from a very chilly and windy London!
I have just been reading the thread on divorce, I guess, trying to get some clarity and/or guidance on the subject - which is very close to my heart at the moment. I have read and re-read Jesus' teachings in Mark 10, and listened to the sermon at church, and talked with the vicar, whom I get along with and like very much. He has been a great friend to both myself and my kids.
I am 34 years old, currently seperated from my husband, Max, whom I love very much. He left the family home back in July, but we agreed not to apply for a divorce. I will try briefly to explain the reasons for this as I go on.
I was first married when I was 20, and my dad had to give consent to the marriage! My husband and I had a great time, the marriage was based on a mutual love of booze! Then I got pregnant with our son, so the boozing stopped on my part. I guess I had to grow up! After a difficult pregnancy, we were blessed with a baby boy, called Richard (now a big boy of 12yrs!) My husband's interest in other women increased, and after two affairs that I knew of and a sexual assault on a babysitter, I moved out with Richard and divorced him.
I then met my second husband, Roy. He was a lot older than me, had custody of his four children and had also divorced due to his wife's adultery. I fell head over heels in love with him, and we were married within a year. I thought he was my true soulmate. However, the violence and verbal abuse escalated over 3 1/2 years, I suffered many injuries including broken fingers, I was set on fire and repeatedly sexually and psychologically assaulted. Naturally, I lost custody of my son, I couldn't even protect myself, let alone a child.
I turned to drugs then, and, thank the lord, I became pregnant with my daughter, although it was a very, very bad idea at the time. I got sober (the lord touched my life then, for sure) but the assaults continued, and he even pointed a gun at my stomach when I was 7 months pregnant. I had finally had enough when he refused to let me breastfeed the baby in the night and threatened to 'punch her lights out'. He told me that if I ever left, he would letter-bomb my parents' house and find me and kill me. Now, I wholeheartedly believe in the sacred state of marriage, and he had comitted no adultery, but I still feel guilty about the divorce and my subsequent remarriage in 2003. Surely, in The Lord's eyes, I could not be expected to live like that, and condemn my daughter to that life too? These days, I have a great relationship with my son, although I didn't see him for a long time.
I moved from my native Manchester with my baby daughter 250 miles away, five years ago. It was a good move! I immediately joined a church and began searching for Christ...I can truly say that He found me five years later and I became a true believer. I talk to God all the time (He must be sick of me whining!! ) But I feel 'stained' by my divorces, and my current seperation - my husband was getting very moody, shouting a lot and we never saw him. He made me feel inferior to other, more attractive women. He never, ever had time for us. I'll be honest - I just wasn't prepared to live like that again, not at all, ever! And he didn't like my son. I became a Christian after he left, and it's the best thing I ever did - I feel real peace, something I never knew before. I have asked for forgiveness for my own actions, and I forgive the actions of my first two husbands. But I don't know - am I 'damaged goods' in the sight of the Lord?
My daughter was baptised in September last year, I felt I had to come clean with the minister about my past. My husband was too busy racing boats to come at stand at our side during the ceremony - he is the only dad she's ever known! Oh yes...and he is involved with the church of Scientology, his personal choice, and that's fine. But I want a Christian upbringing for my girl. There has already been some friction there!:lightning
So, I just don't know. I feel better getting it all out, and if Christ can forgive me, perhaps I should forgive myself...Anyway, thank you so much for listening, and God Bless all of you.
Love from your friend, Rachel xx
Member
I have to say that it is hilarious to me that people still hold to the "Betrothal View". The idea that matt 5:32 and matt 19:9 are talking about a broken betrothal and not a divorce.
The idea that Jesus went from talking CLEARLY about a "Writting of Divorcement" to talking about betrothal, with no note of it, is HILARIOUS! I seriously have to laugh when people hold that view, and I'm sorry to anyone who does, but you need to study harder.
12 different Greek lexicons say the word porneia means adultery in this context. The idea that "fornication" means only sex before marriage is laughable. Any study in etymology will show that Jesus chose this word because its actually broader than adultery. It's to save a person when their spouse has sex with another adult, animal, child, any kind of sexual sin. It is always used in a general sense meaning sexual sin in the bible, and to take it to mean strictly "sex before marriage in a betrothal period" does violence to the scripture.
The idea that marriage absolutely can not be broken is equally ridiculous. Jesus did not say "What God joins together no one can separate." He said LET NO man put asunder what God has joined together, giving a clear indication it was possible.
Thirdly, and lastly, the idea that divorced can not remarry is impossible to backup with scripture. In the bible remarriage after divorced was ALWAYS assumed. Give me one verse that doesn't indicate that. If you try to bring up John the Baptist preaching against Herod and Herodias please make sure you first study harder. Herod was Herodias Uncle for one, and for two so was her ex-husband (her uncle)! They were brothers. In Leviticus it is clear (and this is indicated in Mark strongly) that this was preached at Herod because he took "His Brothers Wife", not because he married a divorced woman.
In conclusion, I think anyone struggling with the issue should see John 4:18-21 in the original Greek or any bible. I'll throw the exact literal translation up here for reference if anyone wants it.
17. Well sayest thou a Husband I have not (indicating she was not lying when she said she had no husband)
18. For FIVE HUSBANDS THOU HADST , (there is punctuation here in the Greek) and now he whom thou hast is not of thee husband (again indicating she was living with or seeing someone she was not married to, this is not even possibly indicating that Jesus was saying that her new husband was not her husband because of the punctuation) This truly thou hast said.
It should be fairly obvious that a Samaratin would require MUCH more information about divorce if it was impossible, and Jesus would have indicated more than what he did, because as a Samaratin it is obvious that her reaction would be to go get married so she could stop living in sin. He didn't command her to remain single, he didn't explain that God doesn't recognize divorce. It is all VERY clear when you simply read this passage and understand it's context. Feel free to argue against my position, but this is something I think I have probably studied for more than 100 hours total. I think it is so important to study this because so many churches have different views on the subject and that can severely damage someones faith when they see people who are "lead by one spirit" disagree. It almost killed my faith for a while, but instead it brought me to study the word harder than I ever have.
The only way you get views like the betrothal view and etc are when you open the bible and you want it to say "no divorce, no remarriage". Ridiculous.
P.S. Thanks Chad for the post I thought it was very good
The idea that Jesus went from talking CLEARLY about a "Writting of Divorcement" to talking about betrothal, with no note of it, is HILARIOUS! I seriously have to laugh when people hold that view, and I'm sorry to anyone who does, but you need to study harder.
12 different Greek lexicons say the word porneia means adultery in this context. The idea that "fornication" means only sex before marriage is laughable. Any study in etymology will show that Jesus chose this word because its actually broader than adultery. It's to save a person when their spouse has sex with another adult, animal, child, any kind of sexual sin. It is always used in a general sense meaning sexual sin in the bible, and to take it to mean strictly "sex before marriage in a betrothal period" does violence to the scripture.
The idea that marriage absolutely can not be broken is equally ridiculous. Jesus did not say "What God joins together no one can separate." He said LET NO man put asunder what God has joined together, giving a clear indication it was possible.
Thirdly, and lastly, the idea that divorced can not remarry is impossible to backup with scripture. In the bible remarriage after divorced was ALWAYS assumed. Give me one verse that doesn't indicate that. If you try to bring up John the Baptist preaching against Herod and Herodias please make sure you first study harder. Herod was Herodias Uncle for one, and for two so was her ex-husband (her uncle)! They were brothers. In Leviticus it is clear (and this is indicated in Mark strongly) that this was preached at Herod because he took "His Brothers Wife", not because he married a divorced woman.
In conclusion, I think anyone struggling with the issue should see John 4:18-21 in the original Greek or any bible. I'll throw the exact literal translation up here for reference if anyone wants it.
17. Well sayest thou a Husband I have not (indicating she was not lying when she said she had no husband)
18. For FIVE HUSBANDS THOU HADST , (there is punctuation here in the Greek) and now he whom thou hast is not of thee husband (again indicating she was living with or seeing someone she was not married to, this is not even possibly indicating that Jesus was saying that her new husband was not her husband because of the punctuation) This truly thou hast said.
It should be fairly obvious that a Samaratin would require MUCH more information about divorce if it was impossible, and Jesus would have indicated more than what he did, because as a Samaratin it is obvious that her reaction would be to go get married so she could stop living in sin. He didn't command her to remain single, he didn't explain that God doesn't recognize divorce. It is all VERY clear when you simply read this passage and understand it's context. Feel free to argue against my position, but this is something I think I have probably studied for more than 100 hours total. I think it is so important to study this because so many churches have different views on the subject and that can severely damage someones faith when they see people who are "lead by one spirit" disagree. It almost killed my faith for a while, but instead it brought me to study the word harder than I ever have.
The only way you get views like the betrothal view and etc are when you open the bible and you want it to say "no divorce, no remarriage". Ridiculous.
P.S. Thanks Chad for the post I thought it was very good
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Member
sigh
You know, every situation is different. Alot of divorces have involved abuse, such as mine. God never meant for women to be door mats. I left and divorced for the safety of my children and myself. Anyone that abuses their mate is not a christian to me.
God is way too important to me. I divorced and that's that. I look for a better life in Christ, and I know He has someone our there for me. When God thinks Im ready then I will be.
I always thot it was better for Christians to actually listen to a situation instead of condemning or throwing scriptures at a person struggling. But I've been in many chatrooms that do only that, and that to me is very sad.
God is first and always will be.
gbu.
You know, every situation is different. Alot of divorces have involved abuse, such as mine. God never meant for women to be door mats. I left and divorced for the safety of my children and myself. Anyone that abuses their mate is not a christian to me.
God is way too important to me. I divorced and that's that. I look for a better life in Christ, and I know He has someone our there for me. When God thinks Im ready then I will be.
I always thot it was better for Christians to actually listen to a situation instead of condemning or throwing scriptures at a person struggling. But I've been in many chatrooms that do only that, and that to me is very sad.
God is first and always will be.
gbu.
Member
God bless you upahigh...
The Lord knows what's in all our hearts!
Feel free to PM me.
Rachel x
The Lord knows what's in all our hearts!
Feel free to PM me.
Rachel x