B-A-C
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- Dec 18, 2008
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There are a great many ideas about what dispensation is. Dispensationalism for example is the idea that God work's by different rules at different periods of time.
(i.e. the Old testament times had the old covenant, the New Testament and current times have the new covenant).
But for the sake of this thread, I'm just talking about the forgiveness of sins.
Even that definition can become somewhat muddled, for example the Roman Catholic church believes that they (the church) have the ability to decide when a sin is forgiven.
For example, a minor sin might simply require a confession, but a major sin requires several hail Mary's, and perhaps a lot of money given to the church (called indulgences), do a few good deeds (help an old lady across the street) then maybe they will forgive you.
All that aside for a moment.
At the moment we accept Jesus, we are forgiven of all our past sins. I think very few here on TalkJesus would dispute that.
The traditional sinners prayer taught by many churches requires three parts, typically this is just called the A B C principle. Ask (for forgiveness) - Believe (in Jesus) - Confess (your sins).
Not always necessarily in that order, or any specific order at all.
I've heard this done many different ways. Some people don't seem to have a lot of past sin, or else the sins were so few, they can recall them all in one prayer of confession.
Other people seem to have a lot of past sin in their life, and some feel compelled to confess them all to the Lord, perhaps the Holy Spirit moves them to do so. I have heard some say it took
days, weeks, or even months to confess their past sins.
Some people believe that once you are saved that not only includes all of the sins of your past, but all of the sins you will commit in the future as well.
Luke 7:47; "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."
Luke 7:48; Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven."
Some people believe that Jesus meant not only her past sins, but also any she might commit in the future.
Yet, I really don't see this in the Bible.
In John 5, Jesus healed a lame man, the lame man found him again a little later.
John 5:14; Afterward Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."
In John 8, Jesus forgive the woman at the well of her sins, but then he told her....
John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."
"sin no more".Apparently she could have sinned again if she wanted to.
.Again in John we see Jesus washing the disciples feet.
John 13:8; Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
John 13:9; Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
John 13:10; Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.
Now maybe Jesus was talking about the disciples physical hygiene here. But maybe he was also talking about their spiritual condition.Apparently he had already "washed" them.
But he still said "you need have your feet washed" every now and then. What did mean by that? Why would need our feet washed if we are already clean? Maybe he meant we need
to confess our sins before God again every now and then.
Further, in the Lord's prayer, when Jesus was teaching the disciples how to pray...
Matt 6:12 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgive those who sin against us.
Why would Jesus tell us to ask forgiveness when we pray if we are already forgiven for all our sins in the future? Maybe the point is, we still need forgiveness sometimes.
Peter asked how many times should we forgive a fellow Christian who sins against us.
Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:21; Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Of course we can all quote the answer Jesus gave him. Seven times seventy. The point being, people still need forgiveness.
John 20:23; "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
James said we need to confess our sins to each other, so we can be healed.
Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
This is similar to what David said.
Psa 32:3; When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away Through my groaning all day long.
Also John says "if we confess our sins" he will forgive us. But what if we don't confess them?
1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So I suppose the question might be.. when if I get run over by a train before I can ask for forgiveness? Well then, that's too bad.
I'm just kidding, of course there is grace. This is what grace is all about. It covers the things we forget about from time to time.
But that is different from just saying.. it's all good. I'm already forgiven for everything.
Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Maybe crucifying our old self, is sometimes a daily thing.
Could it be that every time we sin, it requires a little more grace?
Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
(i.e. the Old testament times had the old covenant, the New Testament and current times have the new covenant).
But for the sake of this thread, I'm just talking about the forgiveness of sins.
Even that definition can become somewhat muddled, for example the Roman Catholic church believes that they (the church) have the ability to decide when a sin is forgiven.
For example, a minor sin might simply require a confession, but a major sin requires several hail Mary's, and perhaps a lot of money given to the church (called indulgences), do a few good deeds (help an old lady across the street) then maybe they will forgive you.
All that aside for a moment.
At the moment we accept Jesus, we are forgiven of all our past sins. I think very few here on TalkJesus would dispute that.
The traditional sinners prayer taught by many churches requires three parts, typically this is just called the A B C principle. Ask (for forgiveness) - Believe (in Jesus) - Confess (your sins).
Not always necessarily in that order, or any specific order at all.
I've heard this done many different ways. Some people don't seem to have a lot of past sin, or else the sins were so few, they can recall them all in one prayer of confession.
Other people seem to have a lot of past sin in their life, and some feel compelled to confess them all to the Lord, perhaps the Holy Spirit moves them to do so. I have heard some say it took
days, weeks, or even months to confess their past sins.
Some people believe that once you are saved that not only includes all of the sins of your past, but all of the sins you will commit in the future as well.
Luke 7:47; "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."
Luke 7:48; Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven."
Some people believe that Jesus meant not only her past sins, but also any she might commit in the future.
Yet, I really don't see this in the Bible.
In John 5, Jesus healed a lame man, the lame man found him again a little later.
John 5:14; Afterward Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."
In John 8, Jesus forgive the woman at the well of her sins, but then he told her....
John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."
"sin no more".Apparently she could have sinned again if she wanted to.
.Again in John we see Jesus washing the disciples feet.
John 13:8; Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
John 13:9; Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
John 13:10; Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.
Now maybe Jesus was talking about the disciples physical hygiene here. But maybe he was also talking about their spiritual condition.Apparently he had already "washed" them.
But he still said "you need have your feet washed" every now and then. What did mean by that? Why would need our feet washed if we are already clean? Maybe he meant we need
to confess our sins before God again every now and then.
Further, in the Lord's prayer, when Jesus was teaching the disciples how to pray...
Matt 6:12 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgive those who sin against us.
Why would Jesus tell us to ask forgiveness when we pray if we are already forgiven for all our sins in the future? Maybe the point is, we still need forgiveness sometimes.
Peter asked how many times should we forgive a fellow Christian who sins against us.
Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:21; Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Of course we can all quote the answer Jesus gave him. Seven times seventy. The point being, people still need forgiveness.
John 20:23; "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
James said we need to confess our sins to each other, so we can be healed.
Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
This is similar to what David said.
Psa 32:3; When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away Through my groaning all day long.
Also John says "if we confess our sins" he will forgive us. But what if we don't confess them?
1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So I suppose the question might be.. when if I get run over by a train before I can ask for forgiveness? Well then, that's too bad.
I'm just kidding, of course there is grace. This is what grace is all about. It covers the things we forget about from time to time.
But that is different from just saying.. it's all good. I'm already forgiven for everything.
Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Maybe crucifying our old self, is sometimes a daily thing.
Could it be that every time we sin, it requires a little more grace?
Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
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