Discussion on the afterlife.

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People that believe in the evolution theory are teaching from it that there is nothing after death as there is no God and therefore no consequences for their actions down here as we are all existing by random chance.

It is rather odd that this thinking that we feel nothing after death or even aware of anything after death has crept into Christian circles.

That is the whole point of Jesus referencing the rich man in hell and the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom as the rich man wanted someone to be raised from the dead to warn his family of this hell he was in to avoid it, but Jesus said that the living has the scripture and so if they do not believe God's words, they will not believe the words of one risen from the dead.

Hell in the afterlife exists for why Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners from it. As Adam did not believe God and His words but hearkened unto the woman in eating from the forbidden tree for why mankind fell, death by sin, so then is by believing Jesus Christ and His words that by believing in Him is how one receives eternal life.

Hello @GodB4Us,

Please 'stop', 'look', and, 'listen', and take note of what the Scriptures actually say: put aside what you have received by the traditions of men, and then you will be able to see clearly what the Lord Jesus Christ is saying to the Pharisees in that story, which is pure satire; and be able to believe the words of Scripture concerning hell, and the state of the dead.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

If man does not have an immortal soul, then there is no eternity for him. The gift of life is something that God gives to those who have believed on His Son the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. The redemption of that purchased possession, that Christ gave His life for, takes place at the resurrection from the dead, when the believer is effectively 'born again' into resurrection life.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I've heard of all that, no need to throw the book at me. The problem is that all of your statement hangs on that "if" at the beginning. Somebody mentioned in another thread that "soul" means "living being" in Gen. 2:7, God breathed His spirit into dust and gives life to Adam, by that definition, "immortal soul" is an oxymoron, because spirit is separated from the body and returned to God at death. I don't totally agree on that definition, though, just bringing it up.

 

[complete]

I've heard of all that, no need to throw the book at me. The problem is that all of your statement hangs on that "if" at the beginning. Somebody mentioned in another thread that "soul" means "living being" in Gen. 2:7, God breathed His spirit into dust and gives life to Adam, by that definition, "immortal soul" is an oxymoron, because spirit is separated from the body and returned to God at death. I don't totally agree on definition, though, just bringing it up.

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

Sorry if you thought I was 'throwing the book at you'.

There is no 'if' in regard to this in Scripture: for there is only One Who has immortality. ( 1 Timothy 6:16 )

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

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' For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 6:23)

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

Sorry if you thought I was 'throwing the book at you'.

There is no 'if' in regard to this in Scripture: for there is only One Who has immortality. ( 1 Timothy 6:16 )

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

Of course not, I just don't like the sounding of Christianese, you know. That's kind of putting God into a box. If you believe that the blood reaches to the highest mountains and flows to the lowest valleys, then it must be manifested in every facet of life. God is not God of the dead, but the living. His presence is not only in this mystic destination called heaven in another dimension, but in our every day supposedly secular life. You just need to have the eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Exodus 23, and Leviticus 19

You will find in the old testament that the Lord God commanded his people before they would harvest their crop(s), that they should go into the fields and gather only the best of that crop, and offer them unto God as “THE FIRST FRUITS”

Next, after they had done that, they were to go into the fields to gather all the crops (main harvest), except they were not to harvest the “CORNERS OF THEIR FIELDS”. The corners of the fields were to be left for the poor, and less fortunate who would “GLEAN” the fields for free. There are several accounts of this in scripture where women of faith went out to glean in the fields.

Every single Harvest had three separate phases to it, yet they are called “ONE” harvest. There is only one harvest when it comes to the resurrection of the just, but there are three separate phases to this one harvest (resurrection)

We have Jesus Christ who just so happens to be called the “FIRST FRUITS”
Remember Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life"

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: CHRIST THE FIRST FRUITS; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This should tell us something about the closeness of the next phase which would be the “MAIN” harvest which would be the “Rapture” or the “catching away of the wheat into his God's barns”

The Harvest already began more than 2000 years ago with the resurrection of Jesus Christ being the First Fruits!!!
The final “PHASE” of this “ONE” harvest would be the “GLEANING” (resurrection) of all the tribulation saints who missed the rapture but came to faith during the tribulation period. They will have to die for their faith, and this will happen at the end of the second coming of Jesus Christ to this earth to make war with the beast along with all of his saints coming with him.


The "Gleaning" completes the "first resurrection" One thousand years separate the resurrection of the just, from the unjust.

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

Matthew 27:50-53​

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King James Version​

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50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

The timing of the harvest of the firstfruits of Israel is also shown in the law right after the Passover lamb ( Christ) was killed, which happened before Pentecost ( 7X7 sabbaths.) 49 days

Leviticus 23:10-16​

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King James Version​

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10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.”(=Pentecost)

The “new meat” offering mentioned there is the prophecy of the offering of the Gentiles which began at Pentecost. (Day after 7th Sabbath)

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

Matthew 27:50-53​

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King James Version​

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50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

The timing of the harvest of the firstfruits of Israel is also shown in the law right after the Passover lamb ( Christ) was killed, which happened before Pentecost ( 7X7 sabbaths.) 49 days

Leviticus 23:10-16​

​

King James Version​

​

​

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.”(=Pentecost)

The “new meat” offering mentioned there is the prophecy of the offering of the Gentiles which began at Pentecost. (Day after 7th Sabbath)

First fruit was Jesus’s resurrection. Jesus was the first fruit. That mass resurrection of saints was a preview of the final resurrection when Jesus returns. Since Jesus was crucified on Passover, it wasn’t on the same date with First fruit.

 

[*Lavender]

His presence is not only in this mystic destination called heaven in another dimension, but in our every day supposedly secular life.

Of course and just because we are here, discussing the bible , and spiritual aspects, that doesn't mean we don't experience God in our every day life.

I've expressed that before but not here. In art with children.
We have a life offline and perhaps many would be surprised over how different we may appear to be

It's like stepping in and out into another world and other worlds with so much variety of His presence.

I feel most like me feel closer to God that way and in the every day life. That's how I was drawn to God. Not in a church.

It was a variety of things walking to school each day, thinking about God, but not knowing that I was until years later.
Experiences with the family, friends, music sounds. Traveling every day.

Seeing God's beauty in nature. With a growing awareness of the need for Him. So much and so many ways.

Also we still need to be awake to what's going on and see how the world is changing. Not conforming to the pattern of society but having a renewed mind in Christ. Knowing how to live in the world but not of the world.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

First fruit was Jesus’s resurrection. Jesus was the first fruit. That mass resurrection of saints was a preview of the final resurrection when Jesus returns. Since Jesus was crucified on Passover, it wasn’t on the same date with First fruit.

Christ is the first of the first fruits, but those who were raised with Jesus after his ressurection were the firstfruits of Israel.

Romans 2:10​

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King James Version​

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10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Jeremiah 2:3
Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the Lord.

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Curtis]

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

The same "reasoning" that the Jews saw. They thought when the messiah would come he would destroy the wicked and set up his Kingdom. They were absolutely correct, but that would only happen at his "second" coming. They did not see the scriptures as telling their messiah would come "first" as the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

The resurrection has the same problem where most people do not see and understand the three phases of the one resurrection.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The same "reasoning" that the Jews saw. They thought when the messiah would come he would destroy the wicked and set up his Kingdom. They were absolutely correct, but that would only happen at his "second" coming. They did not see the scriptures as telling their messiah would come "first" as the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

The resurrection has the same problem where most people do not see and understand the three phases of the one resurrection.

Yes, many do not see how prophetic the law is, or else they would study it carefully so to know what is fulfilled, and what is yet to be fulfilled concerning the 3 feasts of the Lord.

Exodus 23:14-17​

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King James Version​

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14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty
16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord God.”

Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:”

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Christ is the first of the first fruits, but those who were raised with Jesus after his ressurection were the firstfruits of Israel.

Romans 2:10​

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King James Version​

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10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Jeremiah 2:3
Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the Lord.

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

No, they’re not. The first fruits of Israel are the 144000 in Rev. 14. You’re confused.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

No, they’re not. The first fruits of Israel are the 144000 in Rev. 14. You’re confused.

Same firstfruits of Israel. Notice the words of God say they WERE redeemed already.

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Same firstfruits of Israel. Notice the words of God say they WERE redeemed already.

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They WERE redeemed because they were sealed previously. That has nothing to do with the saints resurrected at the crucifixion day.

Also, "to the Jews first" just means God built His relationship with the Jewish people first, then from them and through them, to the other nations. They were the first to meet Jesus, but they will be the last to accept Jesus, for "the first will be last and the last first."

 

[*Lavender]

I like the way the resurrection in Matthew 27 was mentioned. That is a very fascinating passage and must have really pinpointed who Jesus was, after He was crucified.That was so powerful as well as Jesus resurrection, with the empty tomb, the angel and all the people He appeared too, including Saul/ Paul who had a powerful conversion.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared. Matthew 27:50-54

That seems to be fulfilling this in Isaiah 26:19
“Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

They WERE redeemed because they were sealed previously. That has nothing to do with the saints resurrected at the crucifixion day.

Being sealed does not mean you are already redeemed, as it is written above the first fruits of Israel WERE already redeemed.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The first fruits of Israel means they were the first to be resurrected with Jesus.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Notice WHERE the 144,000 are, and WHERE they WERE redeemed from…

Revelation 14:1-5​

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King James Version​

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14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

They are not on earth, they WERE redeemed FROM the earth, and are now before the throne of God in heaven.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The first fruits of Israel means they were the first to be resurrected with Jesus.

Look, there were a couple of resurrection accounts in the NT such as Lazarus, but those were just given a second chance of this mortal life. Jesus was the only one who had conquered death and lived forever.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Look, there were a couple of resurrection accounts in the NT such as Lazarus, but those were just given a second chance of this mortal life. Jesus was the only one who had conquered death and lived forever.

Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, being the first of the firstfruits. But those saints who were raised with Jesus are the first fruits of Israel.

I know some denominations and doctrines of men like to fancy themselves as the firstfruits of Israel, but the words of God I posted prove otherwise.

I tend to believe in the words of God over the opinions of men.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, being the first of the firstfruits. But those saints who were raised with Jesus are the first fruits of Israel.

I know some denominations and doctrines of men like to fancy themselves as the firstfruits of Israel, but the words of God I posted prove otherwise.

I tend to believe in the words of God over the opinions of men.

You just keep repeating the same line without any proof text. Those saints were not raised “with” Jesus, quite the opposite, they were raised when Jesus yielded his last breath, and three days later on the FEAST of first fruits, Jesus was raised.