Did Satan bring One or Two gangs of fallen angels from heaven?

[Rhema]

You want me to do your homework for you?
It was either that reply or "You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"

It was your claim. So support YOUR claim. It isn't my homework.

I'm saddened to see you use such a pedestrian scheme to weasel out of the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE these "enough references" (or don't know them), and cannot prove your assertion. It's a crap move, Nick, and you know it. So just be honest and say you never had any "enough references" and just posted that to save face. It's just one more drop that adds to my PM.

When it was written.

No. When it was said.

And Jesus said this long before Paul ever wrote anything.

The Emperor was pressing his own buttons and will be responsible for his own decisions. There is no Satan behind the puppets pulling the strings. That would make Jesus into a liar. Is your Jesus a liar?

One would hope not,
Rhema


What hope is there if even you don't believe Mat. 28:18 ?
(And you attack me for my other beliefs?)

 

[Christ4Ever]

It was your claim. So support YOUR claim. It isn't my homework.

I'm saddened to see you use such a pedestrian scheme to weasel out of the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE these "enough references" (or don't know them), and cannot prove your assertion. It's a crap move, Nick, and you know it. So just be honest and say you never had any "enough references" and just posted that to save face. It's just one more drop that adds to my PM.

They were both questions, and nothing that you wrote above answers them, and for the sake of humor, I'm not the one who is weaseling out of the homework assignment.

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.

No. When it was said.

And Jesus said this long before Paul ever wrote anything.

The Emperor was pressing his own buttons and will be responsible for his own decisions. There is no Satan behind the puppets pulling the strings. That would make Jesus into a liar. Is your Jesus a liar?

One would hope not,

I guess you are saying that they both can't be true, though said at different times by different individuals. Don't quote me on that... lol

My Jesus is not a liar, but I'm pretty sure you are, if even a repentant one and if my Jesus is not your Jesus then we are not brothers, brother.

Also, if you don't believe that Satan can influence the world/individuals then I'll be praying for your coverage/protection from it. Though I'm sure you believe you don't need it for that even though there are enough examples that God has allowed that to happen which I'm sure you know is true. Oh, and I'm not doing your homework for you with this either.

What hope is there if even you don't believe Mat. 28:18 ?
(And you attack me for my other beliefs?)

Yep, and I believe in 2 Corinthians 12:7 too, don't you?
(Attack or Protect?)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S.

 

[Rxlx]

Block Rhema off as a waste of time as bad as Tedious Dylan.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Block Rhema off as a waste of time as bad as Tedious Dylan.

Dear Sister,
That would be a no.
We all have our moments, whereby we try others.
Although I have blocked certain members on occasion, it is typically only for a brief period to prevent further conflict from arising.

Though I do thank-you for your input.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

They were both questions,

Sorry, those were statements made in the form of a question. I would be surprised that any reader would have taken these be legitimate straightforward questions.

In addition, it's a rather well accepted premise that someone who makes a claim should support their own claim. So at best, it would be a red herring to use the phrase "your homework" (to mean me) when I had merely requested you back up your own statement - to wit:

there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well

Which ones?

But maybe you were having a bad day, and just hadn't followed the flow of the conversation. So I'll ask again, what references might there be to equate Satan as "the god of this world" after Jesus said Mat. 28:18?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)

... because a god has power and authority over an actual domain.

Satan? The devil?

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​

(John 8:44 KJV)

And one of his greatest lies is perpetrated by the Church - that he is the "god of this world."

We had been speaking of context in another thread, and this passage shows the importance of such context. To the reader of Paul, who would have been "the god of this world"? Perhaps my mistake was to omit the sources for my claim that every reader would have known this to be a cunningly veiled reference to the Roman Emperor. So... I'll spend the time necessary to support my claim.

"Ultimately the Romans did advance one cult, which took on some of the characteristics of a universal religion and became a political tool in the interest of stability - a symbol of loyally to the state and its rulers. This was, of course, the imperial cult, the worship of the emperor-as-god.​

Augustus was officially deified at his death; this became the standard practice; there were only occasional exceptions, as when Caligula and Domitian in the first century, and Commodus in the second demanded recognition as deity in their lifetimes. The provincial councils made up of upper-class men, gave much attention to the imperial cult; as also did the Augustales, priestly college of freedmen; other priestly colleges included rites to the emperors in their regular observances; and the army made much of it, as in oaths and obervance of birth dates. The imperial cult thus touched the lives of many persons in all the social strata. As in the case of other state cults, the proper observance of its ceremonies became a symbol patriotism, as well as piety."​

- (pgs. 270,271)​

Roman Society: A Social, Economic, and Cultural History

Ideal for a one-semester course in Roman civilization o…

www.goodreads.com

Indeed, the god of this world (the Roman Emperor) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, and the cult of emperor-as-god was ubiquitous in the Roman world by the time of Paul. Augustus reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14. The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult (Wiki-LINK). Caligula, was Roman emperor from AD 37 until his assassination in AD 41. Domitian was Roman emperor from 81 to 96. The Apostle Paul having a ministry from circa 31–36 AD until his death somewhere between 64 & 68 AD.

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.

"You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"

No.

I wanted you to actually provide support for your claim. (That's how discussions work.)

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

They were both questions,

Sorry, those were statements made in the form of a question. I would be surprised that any reader would have taken these be legitimate straightforward questions.

Now you know they were questions. Whether you realized it or not, you answered them anyway. However, based on your words, that was not your intent, as you did not recognize them as such.

there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well

Which ones?

But maybe you were having a bad day, and just hadn't followed the flow of the conversation. So I'll ask again, what references might there be to equate Satan as "the god of this world" after Jesus said Mat. 28:18?

Don't assume or you know what happens in my day. I'm actually having and had a few joyful days in the Lord! Today, is a bit more of a challenge. Maybe, you just need to change your perspective and ask the question where it reflects that Satan or someone other than God is the ruler of the world without introducing outside perspectives to it. (See below on Matt 28:18)

I'll not go down the rabbit hole you want to go down. I've told you many times I'm a simple man. You're the one who wants the layers upon layers, that accomplishes what you want (truth questionable here) and only frustrates the opposition to giving up. Best battle is the one you don't get into.

If you are satisfied that Satan has never in anyway had control or enough of an influence to dictate what happens in the world; then so be it. Be happy with your conclusion, but it doesn't change mine in the least. Now no name calling (from perspective not yours), or it will not happen on this thread again. lol

claim that every reader

Apparently not.
So, if you are wrong in that what else could you be wrong in? hummmmmm (just asking myself that's all) lol

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.

"You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"

No.

Yes to the first quote.
Amazing that you don't even realize that is what you do (2nd quote above).

Then again like a child (no insult here, Matt 18:2-5) likes to take things apart, out of curiosity, with no intent/thought of putting it back together, because as you leave it is sufficient unto itself. So, you do the with word association. You might not see the correlation here with this story, but I do for knowing you in part. I was once with a French Diplomat who I believe really was a spy in the Middle East. She told me that to truly understand the Arabic writing you had to know a bit about the author in order to understand any nuances included in their writings. I always found that an interesting observation, because I believe it takes the Holy Spirit to open ones understanding to His Word.

On Matthew 28:18. You need to dig deeper. Maybe, along the lines of freewill. Only a suggestion on the last, because there are other ways of seeing this, which I do. Of course doing so gives other references on this subject a meaning that might not be seen if only viewed through this as a standalone verse. Job, is a good one, because if you think about it, a little differently, and Job would be dead, and what kind of learning experience would that have been then.... clearly a much different one then what we get from it now.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rxlx]

We as humans are the uppermost of God's Creation in Adam. We could choose. And we see that Adam and Lucifer is the same person. Both were created Good. Both got the choice to be a Child of God and really grow up by the Tree of Life in the Life of the Real God to enjoy it. Or choose the tree of knowledge by which they can become the "opposite god" or "anti Christ" which is anti Word. And we know that Adam and Eve wanted to be "God" too. And they got it. Thus one third of the angels which God created for the purpose of Adam life entered their "job" in assisting Adam to be Adam. Thus Adam has for his live good and bad angels. Good angels which guides him in doing good things and bad angels for him to do bad things. They were all created by God for Adam's existence.

Wow! What a load of Satanic tripe!
Good luck when Jesus returns to seek out all sinners!
And don't expect to find your name in the Book of LIfe!

 

[Rxlx]

That is just an accusation of Lucifer, Brother.

Rev. 12:
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This Scripture said we overcame Lucifer's accusations by our Testimonies where we died as humans and where raised as His Child in the Name of Jesus. So condemning me to being still dead in sin is no "Judgment" that can have any influence on me whatsoever, Brother. It only shows you don't have this Revelation yet and are still dead in sins. We got to assist you with Revelation on sin being eradicated by the Sacrifice of the Living God. Then you will not misuse it to "threaten" others.

What does have Power is your Truth you think you have which will be a Judgment to what I said, Brother. Only Real Truth can Judge anyone and assist anyone to see his mistake. That is what God use in Power to bring change. So just link us to your Truth on this or if you have not yet given it then you can give it now, Brother. That is how Jesus and all our Brothers with their Apostolic gifts in the Bible did it. Here is an Example from Brother Paul. Where He presented the Truth next to the lies of Peter and Conquered his lying lifestyle to the Spiritual Growth of everyone.

Gal. 2:
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

I'm a sister not a brother so I have clearer thinking than you.
The rest of your reply is just drivel.

 

[Rxlx]

Adam sure ain't Lucifer.
Adam lived and died while your friend Lucifer/Satan is still very much alive and we will see him in the Last Days being captured by Jesus and his angel army.

Get a Bible and read Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

99.999% of Christian accept Satan was an angel who became jealous and decided to trick the new humans into disobeying GOD.

How you think Adam is Lucifer is a mystery that only Lucifer can explain.

 

[Rxlx]

Everything I said is based on the bible what book are you reading?Oh you made it up yourself show me this in the bible :


The Second Gang being spirit have the ability like Jesus and the holy angels to be independent of Earth's physical limits. This is how they can enter locked and closed homes and missile silos, to travel great distance quickly - Philip was quickly transmitted away from the Ethiopian eunuch? - they can travel through space and time, they can make solid objects appear and disappear, they can instantly materialise and dematerialise themselves and UFO crafts of all shapes and sizes.
It is they who have been appearing in UFOs and abducting humans and animals - especially cows that have blood and tissues amenable to human - to crossbreed hybrids just as they were doing before The Flood.
They have bases on and in the Moon which is empty having lost the water it was created from in creation week.

You can't because its not there you made it up I am not interested in your falsehoods and dilutions you can't make it up as you go along you get outed right away because it makes no sense.
The watchers are not mentioned in the bible tell me where it tells you all about them in the bible they are only mentioned as the sons of God in one line. - you can't because it doesn't it only talks about them in the Book of Enoch.
I know the bible very well.I called you on it and now I am a idiot and with Satan I am dealing with a child.

The Watcher had children who were their children answer me that if you know who they are which you don't.I can tell you.Tell me all about the watchers what did they do why did God send them how do you find out about them?Then I will believe you know who the Watchers are.

Get a good KJV Study Bible instead of that Catholic (word deleted) one you have.
Then maybe all will become clear.

 

[Bill]

If you could see Angels, this particular topic about gangs of demons going with Satan, you would see the Angels rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. It's all quite amusing honestly

 

[Rhema]

If you are satisfied that Satan has never in anyway had control or enough of an influence to dictate what happens in the world; then so be it.

Not what I said. And you know it.

Since the words of Jesus, when he said:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)

That's when and why one knows that Satan is not the god of this world, and has NO power/authority in heaven and in earth. He was a liar from the beginning, and it's sad to see Christians (most all of them) buying into this lie.

Rhema

 

[Rxlx]

If you could see Angels, this particular topic about gangs of demons going with Satan, you would see the Angels rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. It's all quite amusing honestly

You need to get a Bible and read Genesis 6 and stop amusing Satan.

 

[Peter1]

Well I didn't make any of it up its all in the Book of Enoch which none of you have read and claim to know all about.Go ahead read it and tell me where I made it up.No one is saying you have to believe it and can laugh it all away as nonsense.This can't be discussed here no one has even read the books how can you discuss it without knowing the material.This is ridiculous and amusing.Read the books.

The Book of Enoch Index

The Book of Enoch, by R.H. Charles, [1917], full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

 

[Christ4Ever]

there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well

Which ones?

But maybe you were having a bad day, and just hadn't followed the flow of the conversation. So I'll ask again, what references might there be to equate Satan as "the god of this world" after Jesus said Mat. 28:18?

Don't assume or you know what happens in my day. I'm actually having and had a few joyful days in the Lord! Today, is a bit more of a challenge. Maybe, you just need to change your perspective and ask the question where it reflects that Satan or someone other than God is the ruler of the world without introducing outside perspectives to it. (See below on Matt 28:18)

I'll not go down the rabbit hole you want to go down. I've told you many times I'm a simple man. You're the one who wants the layers upon layers, that accomplishes what you want (truth questionable here) and only frustrates the opposition to giving up. Best battle is the one you don't get into.

If you are satisfied that Satan has never in anyway had control or enough of an influence to dictate what happens in the world; then so be it. Be happy with your conclusion, but it doesn't change mine in the least. Now no name calling (from perspective not yours), or it will not happen on this thread again. lol

On Matthew 28:18. You need to dig deeper. Maybe, along the lines of freewill. Only a suggestion on the last, because there are other ways of seeing this, which I do. Of course doing so gives other references on this subject a meaning that might not be seen if only viewed through this as a standalone verse. Job, is a good one, because if you think about it, a little differently, and Job would be dead, and what kind of learning experience would that have been then.... clearly a much different one then what we get from it now.

Not what I said. And you know it.

Am I misquoting what you said above and because I do not want to go down the rabbit hole with you, please don't attempt to drag me into one. I'm pretty well anchored to resist attempts to do so.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rxlx]

Not what I said. And you know it.

Since the words of Jesus, when he said:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)

That's when and why one knows that Satan is not the god of this world, and has NO power/authority in heaven and in earth. He was a liar from the beginning, and it's sad to see Christians (most all of them) buying into this lie.

Rhema

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jesus does have the power but until GOD says GO! he can't exercise that power to destroy Satan the present ruler of the world.
That is why Satan was able to offer Earth to Jesus.
Matthew 4:8-11 Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and all their splendor. The devil said, “If you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things.” Jesus said to the devil, “Go away from me, Satan!

You really do have problems accepting what the Bible says.

Read this:
1 Corinthians 12:7; But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8;For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9;To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10;To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11;But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

It really is amazing how many Christians lack these gifts.

 

[Bill]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jesus does have the power but until GOD says GO! he can't exercise that power to destroy Satan the present ruler of the world.
That is why Satan was able to offer Earth to Jesus.
Matthew 4:8-11 Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and all their splendor. The devil said, “If you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things.” Jesus said to the devil, “Go away from me, Satan!

You really do have problems accepting what the Bible says.

Read this:
1 Corinthians 12:7; But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8;For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9;To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10;To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11;But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

It really is amazing how many Christians lack these gifts.

Satan is also the father of Lies, (probably where the Democratic party got there Philosophy from)
So Satan didn't have the world to offer to Jesus in the first place. Much like the LGB community stealing June and calling it theirs. They don't own that month.

Where exactly in the scripture does it say that Satan owns all the cities and Kingdoms in the world. It's just a claim.

There's another problem that you're having also, it has to do with Jesus and God. You believe that they are two separate and I mean completely separate characters. And although Jesus is himself, and God is himself. The two are one

 

[Rhema]

Well I didn't make any of it up its all in the Book of Enoch which none of you have read and claim to know all about.

I've read it. (Or rather the English translation.)

And the author(s) made it all up.

(I gather you're referring to 1st, 2nd and 3rd Enoch, yes? No?)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Am I misquoting what you said above and because I do not want to go down the rabbit hole with you, please don't attempt to drag me into one. I'm pretty well anchored to resist attempts to do so.

This chinwag is pretty simple to dissect, Nick.

there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well

Which ones?

You don't know of any references? Fine. Just say so.
You don't have the time? Fine. Just say so.

But there's no rabbit hole. It's just you realizing that you can't address the topic.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jesus does have the power but until GOD says GO! he can't exercise that power to destroy Satan the present ruler of the world.

One doesn't have power if one cannot use it.
And Jesus flat out told the disciples that they too would be granted power.
But Christians don't believe this, so nothing gets done.

Satan the present ruler of the world.

So you bought into the lie too.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​

(John 8:44 KJV)

When Paul said "god of this world" he was speaking about the Roman Emperor. I provided source material above to support this truth.

That is why Satan was able to offer Earth to Jesus.

Why would you accept what a liar says? (That seems rather foolhardy.)

You really do have problems accepting what the Bible says.

What I KNOW, is that Matthew 4:8-11 came BEFORE Matthew 28:18.

It might help you to keep track of the time line. (@Christ4Ever seemed to have had that problem too, since the event recorded in Matthew 28:18 comes BEFORE Second Corinthians 4:4.)

I find it astonishing that Christians just don't believe what is written in Matthew 28:18.

It really is amazing how many Christians lack these gifts.

Pot - Kettle, Sister.

Rhema