Devil rebelion

[Sargento]

Hello to all...

There is a myth in the world that claims that the DEVIL was once good but than he became evil starting a rebellion against GOD... This myth is also many times used to prove the existence of free will, but the truth is that in no place on scripture we find that... in fact we find the opposite when Christ says:

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."
John 8:44


And not only Jesus but John says it too:

[My] little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:
he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:7-8

And as we know GOD is perfect, and if HE had created the Devil to be good but then he'd became bad than GOD would have failed just like HE would have failed if he had came for Israel (by flesh terms) and been rejected... because HE promised Abraham that HE would save his descended , and if Israel (in flesh terms) were his sons than HE would have failed has Paul teaches us ...


"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.""
Rm 9:5-7

If HE made a plan that could fail than HE would not be perfect... so if if HE intnded that the Devil was ever good and he became bad HE failed with the Devil... can this be???

But even HE says:

"See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc;"
Is 54:16

... about the wicked he says the same:

"Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Pv 16:4


All scriptures shows this... and nowhere we see the opposite... so what reasons exists so that one could resist this giving glory to the devil?

So even the Devil has its own end and purpose in GOD's plan... he is not an accident or a rebellion, he is what he was made for.
The other option would result in "GOD failed"... and that is not possible.

 

[B-A-C]

Of course, the third option is... he simply had a choice.
I'm fairly sure God knew in advance this would. I doubt he was surprised. But even when "we" fail. It doesn't have anything to do with God failing.
I'm not sure where this notion of how well we do morally determines how powerful God is.
When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, 100% of the human race was in sin. Did God quit being God during this time?
Now I believe that perhaps hundreds of millions of people will be saved. But even if they aren't... does it mean God made a mistake? Will God quit being God?
Why do keep trying to make God adhere to our ideas of "how things should be", instead of us adhering to his ideas.
It seems to me, God knows many won't choose him.
Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
But even if 99% get thrown into the Lake of fire, does that mean God failed? I'm pretty sure he will still be God.

 

[B-A-C]

There is a myth in the world that claims that the DEVIL was once good but than he became evil starting a rebellion against GOD

Eze 28:12; "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Eze 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

 

[spirit1st]

satan was indeed a perfect made angel . but thought he could be equal with GOD and tried to take over the earth and rule over mankind as god

1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

That was satan . now he might have taken over the mind of this man ? I do not know. But just as God rebuked satan for putting those bad thoughts in Peters mind . he was telling that it was satan ,He was talking too and about .


Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

You understand ? satan is not the creature GOD Created . Sin has changed this being into a vile evil creature . Nothing like GOD had made. Just as this planet and everything on it has changed . Nothing here is How the LORD made it . That we see .


Sin destroys it changes everything . That Why we must be BORN _Again . Made a New Creature.

Sarg are you a J.W. You seem to have a lot of misunderstandings ?

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Listen to me ? God plan from the beginning was to get a family made like the LORD JESUS CHRIST to share His vast kingdom with.

That what He saw HE could do and is doing it even now.

The New Creature , New Spirit He gives each of us Born of God is just like our LORD JESUS and that why JESUS is not ashamed to call us brothers and allows us to judge the world and the fallen angels and has made us joint heirs with HIM .

Looking at it all from the carnal thinking? We will Never see it clearly .

1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

he hates mankind and is doing all he can to deceive people and try to keep them from gaining GOD FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE.

GOD would not share HIS throne with him. Now HE sharing it with us .

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

In the old testament , GOD was dealing with mankind in the flesh . Now in the New Testament , He dealing with mankind Spiritually .

 

[B-A-C]

Isa 14:12; "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15; "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

 

[james1523]

Hello to all...

There is a myth in the world that claims that the DEVIL was once good but than he became evil starting a rebellion against GOD... This myth is also many times used to prove the existence of free will, but the truth is that in no place on scripture we find that... in fact we find the opposite when Christ says:

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."
John 8:44


And not only Jesus but John says it too:

[My] little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:
he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:7-8

And as we know GOD is perfect, and if HE had created the Devil to be good but then he'd became bad than GOD would have failed just like HE would have failed if he had came for Israel (by flesh terms) and been rejected... because HE promised Abraham that HE would save his descended , and if Israel (in flesh terms) were his sons than HE would have failed has Paul teaches us ...


"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.""
Rm 9:5-7

If HE made a plan that could fail than HE would not be perfect... so if if HE intnded that the Devil was ever good and he became bad HE failed with the Devil... can this be???

But even HE says:

"See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc;"
Is 54:16

... about the wicked he says the same:

"Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Pv 16:4


All scriptures shows this... and nowhere we see the opposite... so what reasons exists so that one could resist this giving glory to the devil?

So even the Devil has its own end and purpose in GOD's plan... he is not an accident or a rebellion, he is what he was made for.
The other option would result in "GOD failed"... and that is not possible.

God does not create evil and everything He creates is good, He is not the author of evil. Therefore the devil must have been good originally and became evil.

 

[clark thompson]

The devil and fall of man is part of God's plan. God's plan from the beginning was to send Christ, it was not somethimg He did because His first plan of man living perfectly in the garden failed, He knew they would fall by the snake's influence and because of this it was planned to let them fall and send Christ for them to be brought back to glory.

 

[spirit1st]

YES, He saw it all . But also saw ,He could test us and try us and make us brand new Beings , just like our LORD Jesus who would never sin and only want to please our LORD JESUS 100%
The New spiritually beginning is a new creature that cannot sin.
This is very hard to see for mankind.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The New Creature He makes us is in the image of our LORD JESUS.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Many only see by there sight. They cannot understand the new spirit God gives us is Very different from what we see with our flesh mind and understand with our carnal thinking.

This is our Spirit being ,He talking about .

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


This is what is in the flesh .
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


this is what is in the New creature ,He makes those few willing to give themselves and follow only HIM

. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We walk in our own Spirit ,just as we walk in our own flesh.

1Co_15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Of course many only judge what they see with there carnal eyes. When we must be able to see with our spiritual understanding.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This is where many disagreement start ? One seeing the carnal Only and the Other seeing the Spiritual and carnal . Judging First from the Spiritual . The other judging only the carnal .

Many argue and argue trying to get the other too see the Spiritual side which is Impossible for us to do.
Only the Holy Ghost to cause others to see the Spiritual and only if that person truly wants to see the Truth .

 

[Brighthouse]

Sargento, It is not the first part that I pay attention so much is the second part!! No free will you say? Believing is having free will, here is a scripture concerning free will. rom 10:10 for with the heart a PERSON!!!! BELIEVES!! Mark 5:35-36 Jesus said only believe!! God cannot do the believing for the believer!! WE must believe! Free will! The myth is that God does the believing for us,and if this were true, he would never have needed to die and rise again for us to believe. Unbelief is the only sin not covered by the blood of Jesus in the New Covenant.Rev 21:8 Some reformed doctrine teaches that faith and belief are they same, they are not.For one can have faith yet have unbelief!( mark 9:23-24) Faith is perfect, given by God( to all the very same measure( rom 12:3),but our BELIEF in HIS faith must come from us.Hope that helps you.Remember Adam and Eve? The sin was not eating from the tree of good and evil, the sin was not believing God!!Adam choose to listen to Eve!!( gen 2:17!!!) Same with the enemy he believed he was equal or even greater then God. LOL His 5 I wills came from his free will.Isaiah 1413-14) Blessing bro

 

[spirit1st]

Yes , We have the choice of which to serve. We are going to serve one or the other . Some try to serve both ?

Rom_14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

That what most do not understand.
We were Created to serve . So many think ruling is LORD over others . When Serving is just what it says ,

The Creator of all that was ever Created came to serve . We get our great joy and peace from serving.
Only then ,Does our LORD JESUS reward us , With JOY, and peace and take care of whatever we need?

Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

It listening to HIM. Not what some one else says GOD wants from you .

So many want to be the go between . Jesus is the Go between , no one else!

Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The disciples followed JESUS . When they followed each other ? They got in trouble.

It a relationship ONE on One . Man wants to make HIM self the focus . when It all about our LORD and Master KING JESUS LORD of LORDS King of KINGS our Great High Priest . The Savior and Creator .

Many are building there own little kingdoms in HIS name . Not His KINGDOM .

He thinks in the Eternal , many think only in the Now?

This is just the way I see it. Many might not agree ? I do not mind. Only the LORD can change a heart [Spirit]
It all for His glory or it worthless.

 

[Brighthouse]

And Brother Sprit1st makes another excellent point as well!!! This comment I am about to make, could cause others to get sore a bit,but I am going to say it anyway, and show scripture to consider as to why I am saying this.You cannot mix the law with grace! They do not mix! A good brother I know has been sick now for a year,and wants our prayers for his healing, but he will never receive his healing because he believes that the law is still to be followed! He says the Ten Commandment we not disolved by the new Covenant,but as most of you already know, the Ten Commandment have been disolved! Hebrews 8:5-13 look close at verse 9!!!That is talking about the Ten Commandments. Rom 13:9!!!LOVE fulfills the WHOLE LAW!!

If one wishes to be under the law for any reason, then they have fallen from grace.For the dispensation of the law is based upon the works of man,not the grace of Jesus! Grace cannot be earned! I believe in all Jesus did! BY HIM!!! through faith and my belief in this saves me.I could do nothing to earn my way into heaven.( eph 2:8-10) Rom 1:5 say"Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith(BELIEVING!!!) among all the gentiles for HIS name sake,verse 6 among whom YOU!!! ALSO!!! are the called of who?? YOUR WORKS??? NEVER!!! Jesus Christ!!! amen!

So I told my dear brother when you believe this you will recieve what Jesus already died and rose for you to have! This may sound a bit strong brothers and sisters,I of course did not say it the way you are reading this, believe of else!! LOL But I in my life have sure have found great peace and rest by believing what Jesus has already done for me,and I ask you only to consider this in your own life! The brother so far still thinks he is right in what he is believing and wonders why he cannot recieve what Jesus did,not what we ever can do! Paul himself had great problems getting this through to the people back then!

Look at galatins chapters 3and 4!!See for yourself! Abraham in himself produced Ishmael God produced Isaac!!!( gal 4:21-31!!) WE are not children of bondwoman Hagar!!!WE!!!! Are the children born of a FREE woman!! Sarah! ( 2 cor 3:5-18!!!) Moses put the veil over his face because he did not want the people to see the end of which was fading away! heb 8:12 is that end! No condition anymore under the law,only believe!!Praise God!! I DO!!! BELIEVE!! So you judge for yourself,for your belief is not based upon my words, but rather upon our Jesus who made such a wonderful New Covenant, he even swore upon himself!! because he cannot lie!( hebrews 6:13-19!!!) It is not that the law was not perfect!!! It was!! But no man could keep it!God knew this!! He knew the people needed a true savior hence why Jesus came!! To fulfill!!! Which he did! And from the only man who ever could fulfill it, came his sons and daughters!! US!!! To HIS!!!! Most wonderful New Covenant!! Thank you Jesus!!

 

[Sargento]

I'll answer to all in this post... I answer to each of you separately but hope that all of you read all and understand.

James...

God does not create evil and everything He creates is good, He is not the author of evil. Therefore the devil must have been good originally and became evil.

You made a statement but have not taken into consideration what I said... but it's ok for now... I'll show you more.

Of course everything HE creates is good ... but is good because it serves the purpose for what it was created for, not because it's saint ...
When HE ended the world didn't HE say that everything was good? And wasn't the serpent there also?
And the tree that killed man... wasn't it there also?
But GOD said that it was good... and it was... and it is.

For him there's no evil or good, darkness or light, life or death for HE his everything ... however he hates that evil just like we do it ... but HE made it for a reason.

For the weed a sickle is a bad thing because it can cut them, but for the farmer a sickle is good because it serves his purpose... and just like the farmer HE is above good or evil for all is HIM and HIS will ... but for the weed or wheat it is real and affects them... however for the wheat that understands everything even evil becames good for is the will of good... the weed in the other end, thinking that GOD is carnal and not understanding HIM, cannot accept that GOD creates evil because that would mean (in the eyes of who judges by works - who justify or "unjustify" by works) that GOD is unjust in his eyes ... so he cannot accepted it, otherwise he would have to admit that he does not accept GOD and the mask would fall of.
But don't forget my friend, one thing is ignorance and another is rejection.... not accepting something because of lack of knowledge (which all regenerated once did) is not the same hearing the truth and rejecting it (which no elect can do in his heart because the elect reacts to the truth).

Who made Hell?? Wasn't HE? Is Hell good? Not for the ones who are there suffering now...
Who made death? It made it self? If HE did not wanted to exist why would it still exist? And ate the end of times HE will end (death) it... however not before... why do you think that is? Because HE can't??

My friend, everything that exists is GOD's work not accidents or something that was out of HE's plans.... HE does not fail.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}.
Is 45:7

Like I showed before, the Devil was bad from the beginning, and when he sin's he's doing what is he's own nature... and no one can change his one nature .... I thought you know that since you say you believe in predestination!!!

Please James... think about it.



B-A-C...

Of course, the third option is... he simply had a choice.
I'm fairly sure God knew in advance this would. I doubt he was surprised. But even when "we" fail. It doesn't have anything to do with God failing.
I'm not sure where this notion of how well we do morally determines how powerful God is.
When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, 100% of the human race was in sin. Did God quit being God during this time?
Now I believe that perhaps hundreds of millions of people will be saved. But even if they aren't... does it mean God made a mistake? Will God quit being God?
Why do keep trying to make God adhere to our ideas of "how things should be", instead of us adhering to his ideas.
It seems to me, God knows many won't choose him.
Matt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
But even if 99% get thrown into the Lake of fire, does that mean God failed? I'm pretty sure he will still be God.

Third choice???
If HE knew it advance (and it's obvious HE did) and still created the serpent (the smartest animal) and the tree that killed them and man without understanding (they didn't even know they were naked - nor what it was sin) and joined them all in the same spot why did HE not do things in another way so that man was saved?
He knew what would happen that way, but still did everything that same way...

You create and join a forbidden temptation with desirable looks, with the smartest tempter that wants and needs to fool man, with man a creature that has no knowledge OF WHAT IS GOOD OR EVIL or even that he was naked and DESIRES that same temptation that the serpent need him to eat...
What do you think will happen?

If you join a naive creature whit the most astute creature who will prevail?

If there could be a small chance of Man no falling into temptation it would be to have the knowledge that the forbidden fruit gave him... for after he eating it he understood what he had done and felt shame (not before)... however even that knowledge was denied to them by it's creator.
Because before that knowledge telling man that he will die is like telling that to an animal ... he listen and IF HE UNDERSTAND (in this case an animal) he thinks "die? what is that? Ok... so I die..." because the CONSCIOUSNESS of good and evil was in that tree, not in man.

And just like any animal he would react to his instincts... when hungry eat, when desire anything he would just take, and so on... like a baby.
What prevents man to sin more nowadays it's that consciousness that tells him "that's right" or "that's wrong" and make him fell shame or vanity ... and having that in the same creature where sin habitats in turns him into guilty... before that it would be just sinner but without law, but now the sin is exposed by that law (consciousness).

Again the conclusion is obvious... it was HIS intention... not a third option... if it was not HIS intention, well, then HE failed and HIS plan were frustrated by the serpent.
However HE never does fail.

This is not what this topic it's about (so I will stop here about this) but we can create one for this discussion if anyone wants...




About Eze 28... he is talking for the future NOT THE PAST ... prophecys usually are for the future... and it was for the King of Tyre, NOT THE DEVIL.
However this is a prophecy about the Antichrist and what will happen in the last days... and watch how it ends:

"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never {shalt} thou {be} any more. {a terror: Heb. terrors}"
Ez 28:19

It is the Devil total annihilation which will happen in the day of the Lord.... if this is about a rebellion in the past, this would be wrong (has many other things in this chapter).

This does not say that Devil was ever good...
...however Christ did directly say that he was bad from the beginning... will you ignore this?




Luke 10:18 it's talking about the devil being expelled from heaven where he went to accuse us day and night (like we see in Job where he ask GOD's permission to hurt Job and GOD grant it)... that happened when Jesus sent the 70 disciples to preach the gospel and the heavens started to be purified (Yes, heavens where purified in Jesus like Paul says in Hb 9:23)

"{It was} therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these."
Hb 9:23

... and the first thing that happened before the heaven purification was that devil was expelled from there (this is also testified in Revelation 12:10-11) ...

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Rev 12:10-11

...by the preaching of the gospel ... that was what it happened that moment, not before...
...so that does not mean that he was ever good... or does it??





About Isa 14... it talks about the day of the LORD again... and again it's the future not the past... because it says :

And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! {proverb: or, taunting speech} {golden...: or, exactress of gold}
Isa 14:3-4

This is what we are going to say about the Antichrist in the day that Jesus annihilates him ... when the oppressor ceases ... not what happened before... this is what well say in the day of the LORD when the Devil will be annihilated by the splendor of the appearing of our Lord.



Spirit1st...

Sin destroys it changes everything . That Why we must be BORN _Again . Made a New Creature.

Sarg are you a J.W. You seem to have a lot of misunderstandings ?

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

No, I'm not a J.W.... I'm an elect.

Before you say I have many misunderstandings you should be able to show me my flaws ... but I will answer you on this anyway.

About Ez I already show that is not about the past but the future... it's about the day of the Lord where it ends up with the Devil total annihilation... if that was in the past it would mean that the Devil was already been annihilated at the time the that was written... however that is a prophecy, and for the future.

Sin? Ok... and who created sin? Did it created it self on it's own???
See the answer in your quoting of Eph 3:9 and Rev 4:11.
That is why HE is worthy... because HIS WILL IS BEING DONE WITHOUT FLAWS.
That's how perfect HE is...

The rest of your post has nothing to do with the devil ever being good... now, if you wish to answer PLEASE do not ignore what I just shown... do not pretend that you do not see it.


Clark...
Hi... Clark..

The devil and fall of man is part of God's plan. God's plan from the beginning was to send Christ, it was not somethimg He did because His first plan of man living perfectly in the garden failed, He knew they would fall by the snake's influence and because of this it was planned to let them fall and send Christ for them to be brought back to glory.

Yes... that is the truth...

And do you understand this? Why did GOD do this? What are your thoughts about this?



Brighthouse ...

Hello...

Sargento, It is not the first part that I pay attention so much is the second part!! No free will you say? Believing is having free will, here is a scripture concerning free will. rom 10:10 for with the heart a PERSON!!!! BELIEVES!! Mark 5:35-36Jesus said only believe!! God cannot do the believing for the believer!! WE must believe! Free will! The myth is that God does the believing for us,and if this were true, he would never have needed to die and rise again for us to believe. Unbelief is the only sin not covered by the blood of Jesus in the New Covenant.Rev 21:8Some reformed doctrine teaches that faith and belief are they same, they are not.For one can have faith yet have unbelief!( mark 9:23-24) Faith is perfect, given by God( to all the very same measure( rom 12:3),but our BELIEF in HIS faith must come from us.Hope that helps you.Remember Adam and Eve? The sin was not eating from the tree of good and evil, the sin was not believing God!!Adam choose to listen to Eve!!( gen 2:17!!!) Same with the enemy he believed he was equal or even greater then God. LOL His 5 I wills came from his free will.Isaiah 14(13-14) Blessing bro

Well this is not the topic here, but I'll answer it for now...

About Rom 10:10... Free will? Where my friend? How does that mean free-will? Because we have to believe?
My friend, believing is a GIFT from GOD, not own virtue.... our capacity to believe comes from him for is HE who supports everything that exists including you and our live and thoughts and nature... or are you?

When Peter told Jesus that HE was the Messiah what did HE answer to him?

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed {it} unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
Matt 16:16-17

KNOWING Jesus as Messias (believing) comes from GOD, not for own virtue...

Tell me something Brighthouse...

Do you control what you believe in?
If I ask you to believe in me (that you have no free will) could you?
And I'm not saying to PRETEND or to ACT LIKE YOU BELIEVE (because that would be fake, not real belief)...I mean REALLY BELIEVE.
Can you?

Or a smaller example...
If you see a red car in the street do you have the power to believe that it is blue? Again, I'm not talking about pretending, I'm talking about genuinely believing... can you?
Do you have free will in what you believe in?
Do you CHOOSE what to believe?

If you do than believe in me now... just for 2 weeks so we can talk like brothers in faith... don't worry, after that time you can just choose to believe in something else again, so there's no risks.

Think my friend...

By the way, this weekend I will probably not be able to answer, so only Monday.

 

[Brighthouse]

Hi Brother Sargento! A man who parked his car, came up to me and asked me where he parked at,because i knew, i told him where his car was,he had a choice to make.Whether to believe my words,or continue looking on his own,he choose to believe my words, and so found his car,as he was leaving he thanked me for telling him where he parked it at,and said I could never have found it myself with so many cars in the lot! But he choose brother.I only spoke the truth to him to choose from. Jesus has done this for us as well.His words were given for us to believe in,or not to.

Our actions speak as to what we truly do believe don't they? if we believe then we follow,and if we do not believe then we seek else where,Jesus asked Peter a question, not because Jesus did not know what Peter was going to say, he did know,but for Peter to believe upon the very words God gave him to speak! The belief I have personal brother comes from the words Holy Spirit encouraged me to believe in,God always does his part,our part is to believe in his words,and if we do believe then our actions follow. For 22 years before Jesus came into my heart, many people spoke of Jesus to me,but I did not believe them because of there own life,they had no fruits to me of even knowing Jesus as there own Lord and savior in there own life!! HEHE

They are going to tell me something they are not following?? One day 5 people were lined up,the one man said" jumping over this cliff I will find a great treasure,so he jumped,the other 4 followed him over the cliff, no one returned,would you believe that man and jump? Or would you believe that since none of them made it back to confim there words,you would choose not to follow them? The believing part rests upon the heart of each of us.We are what we believe. God himself could come to me and speak his truth,but I have to decide on whether or not to believe in his words.That is my freedom from him. I agree that Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ made the way for me to believe!!

But I had to choose in believing this.God did not make me like a train on the track. There are many who believe such.I have heard of so many believing Jesus gave us no choice.And to all who have spoken this to me,are still in some sort of bondage in there own life. So we can agree to diagree brother,it will sure not be the first time either of us have done this.LOL The risk of believing far outweighs the risk of not believing for me bro! If I am wrong, i lose nothing,but if they are wrong they lose eternal life,i am not willing to risk that brother, i choose Jesus because he first loved me, and showed me he loved me!

By what Jesus did for me he indeed choose me.( john 15:16) And from his love he first gave to me,I believe in him! But I made that choice brother, he did not.He showed me why I should follow,he promised me so much, and delievered on everything! I have to believe, because of what Jesus did, not just in what he said.( rom 10:17) We hear first,but if we do not see in what we hear,how can God force me to believe?( james 1:22) I see Jesus everyday here in so many,and I am so thankful for them as well! Jesus set me free,and freedom is a choice we all make to have, or not have to me bro.

In war i loved freedom so much I fought for our nation to preserve this freedom! I risked death on every turn in Vietnam during my two tours,but the price of freedom is never cheap,and sure was not cheap in Jesus who shed his own blood just to give me the freedom to believe upon his most Wonderful name!! amen If we have no freedom then we have no choice either.I believe in Christ jesus we do bro. ( gal 5:13-15)

 

[Shutterbug]

Sargento:

For reasons which are merely hinted at, Lucifer (Satan) wanted to do things his way. Whether he didn't get enough credit or became self-important is open to debate. Either way, he and 1/3 of the angels engaged in a rebellion against God. That was a choice they made knowing full well they would be doomed if they failed. The Bible does not say if they were given an opportunity to repent.

Can God create evil? He certainly can, and does if it suits his purpose. I do not believe for a moment Satan was created merely as an unfortunate and doomed pawn in a game to test us.

Satan's fall from Heaven was dramatic. In a flash, he went from the shining bright and morning star to being cast down to the earth with absolutely none of his former glory. All of it gone in a flash as if it had never existed; no different than a lightning bolt whose flash is bright, but fleeting.

His goal today, as he has done since the creation of Mankind, is to influence us to imitate him: do things our own way, and/or giving all of the credit to anyone but God. And the real rub is the acceptance of Jesus in our lives. Satan definitely does not want that to happen. Perhaps the problem, originally?

Cheers,
John

 

[B-A-C]

You cannot mix the law with grace! They do not mix!

In a way, you are right, but on the other hand, without the law, there would be no need for grace.
In my (ever so humble) opinion, every time we sin, we need grace.

 

[B-A-C]

When HE ended the world didn't HE say that everything was good? And wasn't the serpent there also?
And the tree that killed man... wasn't it there also?
But GOD said that it was good... and it was... and it is.

The garden was good, until the serpent (satan) rebelled against God.
The tree was neither good or bad on it's own right (it has no soul or consciousness) it was good that it was there, until man choose to eat of it (God removed it afterward).
But the question is, why did he put it there in the first place? He told Adam and Eve....
Gen 2:16; The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Now why why would God tell them not to eat from it, if it was his will that they do eat from it? Did he purposely lie to Adam and Eve? Our did they simply make their own choice to disobey God?

Jos 24:15; "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

Just because God calls out and reaches out to people doesn't mean they reach back.

John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
It's true we can't get to the Father without Jesus. But there is nothing that says we have to answer that call.

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
God doesn't bust the door down, he gives us the choice to open the door.

I could hold a gun to your head, or maybe threaten your wife or child, and chances are, you would say anything I wanted you to say.
But would you really believe those things you were saying in your heart? God doesn't want people that are forced to come to him. (Do you think the crusades and Spanish Inquisition were from God?)
He wants people who choose him freely and willingly.

What you say is partly true, if God ordains something is going to happen. That thing will definitely happen.
But if God wants sometime to happen, he doesn't always force it to happen.

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Prov 1:28; "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
Prov 1:29; Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD.

Jesus choose 12 disciples, but actually he choose seventy disciples.
Luke 10:1; Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Luke 10:17; The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."

11 of the 12 original disciples stayed with Jesus, but what about the other 70?
There is a verse with the answer.

Matt 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1 Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

 

[Brighthouse]

VERY NICE BROTHER BAC!!!! The law to me brother was so show the jews as we already know we always have need for both His GRACE!! And for a Savior! The law had requirements to follow to recieve, we hold to Jesus, rather then stone! Much better don't you think?? hehe But i do understand where you are coming from! Humbly as well my good brother,stone first,which condemed all, Jesus and HIS grace to forgive all!! Shed and bought for us with his most precious blood!! ( rom 8:1-11!!)Chirst is the end of the law.( rom 10:4) When i saw this brother bac I really rejoiced! To EVEYONE!!! who does what?? amen BELIEVES! ( rom 6:15-23!!!!) amen! And as you said brother Bac!! rom 7:7 The law was not evil! It is just no one but Jesus could ever have kept it.Thanks brother!!

 

[spirit1st]

The law reveals to each of us ? We are all sinners.
It also kills All 100%

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.



Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal_3:12 And the law is not of faith:

The whole world is under Grace. But we still reap what we sow , unless we ask the LORD to forgive us .

The wages of sin is still death, that why we all die in the flesh. But we can if we do not obey the Lord die younger .

You understand ? We can sin in our minds and maybe not even know it and get sick and then . We must do as He says and get healed and forgiven .

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

We must remember ? Not all sickness is because of our sins. This world is so corrupt.

God told us a few ways we can be healed. He always been a healer . He does not like seeing us suffer . But we do many times needlessly . I have had lots of things in my life time ,Some very serious . But He has always healed me so far.And I am NO more than the least in his true unseen church and body . He is No Respecter of persons. Meaning He does not count any better than others.

I think it very important we know this , so we do not think others are more worthy or better or greater ,NONE ARE.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus chose 12 disciples, but actually he chose seventy disciples.
Luke 10:1; Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Luke 10:17; The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."

11 of the 12 original disciples stayed with Jesus, but what about the other 70?
There is a verse with the answer.

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

Many Calvinists believe once Jesus/God chooses you, you will be saved no matter what. You have no say in the matter.
But is it possible he chooses some of us, even though he knows in advance we will betray him?

Joh 6:64; "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
Joh 6:70; Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"
Joh 6:71; Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

Could it be possible he chooses some of us, even though he knows some will betray him?

1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Gal 1:6; I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

 

[james1523]

For him there's no evil or good, darkness or light, life or death for HE his everything ... however he hates that evil just like we do it ... but HE made it for a reason.

With God there is only good, light and life: He is not everything, He is not satan, darkness, evil, or anything like that. If you believe He is both you must believe in yin-yang or one of the asian gods not the God of the bible.
"God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13).
"God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5).