Denominations

[ushalk]

There is not anywhwere that denominations are discussed in a good way or really discussed at all. Yet there are ma ny denominations in the world and all proclaim that they are the only true church and the only church with the true doctrine. Therefore there is only one conclusion that we can truly come to on these matters and that is that all denominations are cults and for themselves rather than for Christ.

 

[james1523]

There is not anywhwere that denominations are discussed in a good way or really discussed at all. Yet there are many denominations in the world and all proclaim that they are the only true church and the only church with the true doctrine. Therefore there is only one conclusion that we can truly come to on these matters and that is that all denominations are cults and for themselves rather than for Christ.

Not all denominations say they are the only true church with true doctrine. Not all are only for themselves and not for Christ. Many are genuinely for Christ. But many are bound by human organization they cannot control. Many are resulting from political decisions and events in past hundreds of years. Within are genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ so we are not to make any distinction between those in denominations and those without denominations. We know from scripture (e.g. Jesus's prayer in John 17) that divisions in the Body of Christ are against God's heart for His people. This is because God Himself is One (Father, Son, Spirit), and so His people should be too. But I would not call denominations cults (in the modern day sense of the word) but the terms sectarian..organized divisions.. sects, would be more accurate. Even though the outward form of the denominations may have some clear differences.. in reality there is little difference between the members of different denominations and they all can agree on many things. It is just sad that despite agreeing on many things we choose to separate ourselves because of our petty differences, our culture, or traditions.

 

[pundit711]

i do feel you have to be very honest and ask this question why for 2000 yrs not 1 form of any denomination has ever reproduced 1 person with the same ministry as Messiah. No matter how sincere each ''creed'' founder has failed to allow his pews to be fashioned in the Image of Christ'' - therefore the truth is '' a house that is divied cannot stand''
divisions destroys the foundtions of the Saviour message of true salvation =

namely the release from the law of sin and of death,.
Ofcourse many will defend their faith and their fate remains the tomb.
why?
because Jesus has an UNDYING priesthood and the 'priests of christendom'' die as the Levical OT PRIESTS did.
somehow the gospel got returned to the OT laws of sin and death. alas - few see this and walk away to FIND THEIR REAL SAVIOUR AND NOT THE CHURCH DIVISIONAL ONE.

 

[ushalk]

Not all denominations say they are the only true church with true doctrine. Not all are only for themselves and not for Christ. Many are genuinely for Christ. But many are bound by human organization they cannot control. Many are resulting from political decisions and events in past hundreds of years. Within are genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ so we are not to make any distinction between those in denominations and those without denominations. We know from scripture (e.g. Jesus's prayer in John 17) that divisions in the Body of Christ are against God's heart for His people. This is because God Himself is One (Father, Son, Spirit), and so His people should be too. But I would not call denominations cults (in the modern day sense of the word) but the terms sectarian..organized divisions.. sects, would be more accurate. Even though the outward form of the denominations may have some clear differences.. in reality there is little difference between the members of different denominations and they all can agree on many things. It is just sad that despite agreeing on many things we choose to separate ourselves because of our petty differences, our culture, or traditions.

get the leaders in closed quarters and have a one on one with them about it and listen to all of the manipulations they have been taught to tell you the same thing i posted if they care more about be boound by human organization then that organization is their god. the apostles were told by the man authorities not to preach Christ and they told the man authorites that gods law was more important for them to follow.

 

[ushalk]

i do feel you have to be very honest and ask this question why for 2000 yrs not 1 form of any denomination has ever reproduced 1 person with the same ministry as Messiah. No matter how sincere each ''creed'' founder has failed to allow his pews to be fashioned in the Image of Christ'' - therefore the truth is '' a house that is divied cannot stand''
divisions destroys the foundtions of the Saviour message of true salvation =

namely the release from the law of sin and of death,.
Ofcourse many will defend their faith and their fate remains the tomb.
why?
because Jesus has an UNDYING priesthood and the 'priests of christendom'' die as the Levical OT PRIESTS did.
somehow the gospel got returned to the OT laws of sin and death. alas - few see this and walk away to FIND THEIR REAL SAVIOUR AND NOT THE CHURCH DIVISIONAL ONE.

very good statement here. i like people that are true to the gospel like that. it is just sad that what you wrote is true.

 

[pundit711]

salvation is about d.e.l.i.v.e.r.a.n.c.e.
from what?

the law of sin
the law of death.
unless these 2 feinds from hell are overcome here and now
- where is our salvation
where is our liberty w
here is our maturity fullness and completeness as the Saviour was free and full?

dont let us pretend we are free,
dont let us allow our churches to give us the ''warm and fuzzies'' when we remain VICTIMS TO SIN AND VICTIMS TO DEATH - both killers that put humans in their graves INCLUDING ALL RELIGIOUS CULT founders and their MEMBERS as well as church sects and their followers.............................

let us get real and try to explain or find out exactly why............



not 1 person in 2000yrs has ever ever ever ever had the same Ministry was Our Saviour in word or deed, Yet we are to become THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.
something is very wrong and very few see it.

therefore the basic problems stem FROM DIVIDED HOUSE AS THE WORD SAYS

THEY CANNOT STAND.
they have become a hospice for the dying
the house of spiritual cripples
filled with the wretched, the naked and the blind and miserable = all victims JESUS TOLD US THIS - but who took notice?

 

[ushalk]

salvation is about d.e.l.i.v.e.r.a.n.c.e.
from what?

the law of sin
the law of death.
unless these 2 feinds from hell are overcome here and now
- where is our salvation
where is our liberty w
here is our maturity fullness and completeness as the Saviour was free and full?

dont let us pretend we are free,
dont let us allow our churches to give us the ''warm and fuzzies'' when we remain VICTIMS TO SIN AND VICTIMS TO DEATH - both killers that put humans in their graves INCLUDING ALL RELIGIOUS CULT founders and their MEMBERS as well as church sects and their followers.............................

let us get real and try to explain or find out exactly why............



not 1 person in 2000yrs has ever ever ever ever had the same Ministry was Our Saviour in word or deed, Yet we are to become THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.
something is very wrong and very few see it.

therefore the basic problems stem FROM DIVIDED HOUSE AS THE WORD SAYS

THEY CANNOT STAND.
they have become a hospice for the dying
the house of spiritual cripples
filled with the wretched, the naked and the blind and miserable = all victims JESUS TOLD US THIS - but who took notice?

I think the first thing that we need to ask ourselves is who do we have our faith in? i do not believe many know that they are not truly saved. salvation is not in joining a denomination or churchnor is it a showing of faith.

 

[farout]

I feel real sadness when I read your post's. You say you are a two year old christian, that's wonderful, keep growing by being in the WORD and pray a lot. Friend you have made a blanket statement about denominations. You may have had some bad experience, I do not know. But there is no way that you have visited enough denominations to be able to voice such a wide scope statement. There are some non-denominaional churches that are very good, but there are some that talk bad about denominational churches they don't have a clue about what they believe or how they help the town or comunity they live in.

Did you know that the Southern Baptist were first at Katrina serving meals 24 / 7 for many months. Did you know there were groups of men and women that went and worked for as long as they could to help take out trash, drywall, and rebuilt homes? Did you know how many denominationd came as groups and worked to help make sure people had a place to sleep, wash and get clean clothes? I know that foor several months churches collected money to help those who had lost everything. In Jopland MIssouri Southern Baptist and other denominations were there doing the same thing all over again. The very same thing is true for Hatti with their earthquake, and more recently Sandy when so many people lost all they had.

I know the Red Cross helped and so did Samaritian's Purse. I believe there were churches that belonged to no other group that helped, but on a very small scale.

I have served in three denominations as a Pastor, NEVER did I hear say they were the only true church or they had the only real gospel. When I read the words like always, they, and words that make a huge statement it really bothers me. Assuming something and then making a statement as if it was completely true when only 1% might be true is called a lie.

Divisions in the body of believers happen. There are some believers that insist Baptism is required for salvation, even if the person has cancer and can not move. There are believers that say unless you speak in tongues you are not saved. There are some believers that say worship is only on Saturday. Some believers do not allow women to do anything but take care of babies. there are some that believe you can loose your salvation. There are some who say once genuinely sayed you are eternal secure. Some believe only the King James Bible is the Bible that God wants us to read.I could go on and on. But this is how denomonations are formed.

When you call denominations "sectarian.. orginizated divisions..sects, would be more accurate." ....Listen to all of the manipulations they have been taught to tell you the same thing I posted if they care more about the boound by human organization is their god." You clearly have hatered in your heart! You are talking trash about brother's and sister's in Christ Jesus that you will some day face in heaven. Jesus said we are to love one another John 13:35. How do you explain that you are taring at the flesh of the Body of Christ?

I never recall a group of believers in a denominational meeting bad mouthing those believers who are non-denominational. But I will be darned that I have read and heard many critical non-denomonational poeple call geniune believers the things you have so falsely said over and over. From every Scripture that Jesus spoke about love, my dear friend you have made a very serious slam on Believers that are reaching out to show all peoples the Good News of Jesus Christ. You need to re read the Gospels and ask the Lord jesus to show how to love, not belittle and speak lies and harm the Body of believers that use the power of a group of like believers to reach out to a lost and dying world. Please make this a matter of very very serious paryer.

 

[james1523]

Denominations are NOT the Body of Christ but man-made organizational structures that divide the Body of Christ. Denominations do not hold the unity of the body in high regard. The scriptures speak much about unity and oneness but denominations do not care for it. Being against unity and oneness is being against the Body of Christ itself,, because the Body of Christ is One.. and Father, Son and Spirit are One. The Body of Christ is a reflection of the One God so being against the Body by being for denominations is being against God's Person. There's no Southern Baptist or any other denomination in Heaven,, even non-denominational denominations are not in heaven.. only Christians.. in Heaven there is no denominations..no labels..no name other than Christ... Jesus never told his disciples to start food for the homeless, or the red cross, or disaster relief, or any of these.. Jesus told them He will build his church.. and prayed for them to be one body in Him...so all your good works cannot save you.. only trust in Jesus alone and meet with other believers. When Jesus came to Earth Judaism was in many sects and divisions.. but Jesus was not born into any of these.. Jesus was born, lived and died outside of the religious institutions of His time. It is the same today.. Jesus is coming back for those outside of the religious institutions, those who know and follow His will , those who are obedient to His call even to come out from Babylon so we don't share in her plagues. Denominations do many good things but so do Muslim groups and atheists and Buddhist organizations also do good things in tough times.. Jesus knows their works, but He is after obedience to His heart and will than good works. It is more pleasing to God to be in one mind and no divisions than to do many good works. Divisions in the Body of Christ are never His will. Anyone who supports denominations does not know God very well... Paul said in 1 Cor 3:1 those who follow denominations are not spiritual but worldly, mere men, babes in Christ. When we see God in a fuller way, we cannot agree with divisions any longer..

A main reason why denominations exist today is for convenience. It is convenient to meet with like-minded brethren.. it is easier.. but it is not God's will. It is when we meet with those different from ourselves that we really learn to deny our self (deny our self desire to be right.. our self righteousness), learn to bear the cross and bear all things in love. For example.. I may speak in tongues but I will treat a brother who does not speak in tongues and even criticizes tongue-speaking no different to someone who does speak in tongues like me. We should not make any distinction and not make a dividing wall between us. God receives them but we don't because we love the denomination more than God. If we love God more than the denomination there is no reason to separate our self from other believers. People in denominations like to ask you what kind of church you go to...what are your beliefs about certain matters.. then they will focus on the differences between you and them...they will judge you according to what doctrine you believe not who you believe in.. this is just like Pharisees who like to ask Jesus questions to find what is different about him.. and to exalt themselves in self-righteousness above the rest.
I do not know any person in a denomination that thinks another denomination is better than theirs.. Catholic thinks theirs is better than protestant.. Presbyterian thinks their is better than Pentecostal and vice versa.. this is a sign of self-righteousness, thinking we are better than other just because we are in better denomination.. but in God's church everyone is on the same level, no one is better than another.. there are no pastors better than laity 'common people'.. pastors don't lead from the front and top down, they lead by example. Many pastors are like mini-popes in charge of their church. But there is only one Shepherd in the church.. Jesus Christ, not many pastor shepherds.. they are shepherds only when they are leading by example in Christ..they are not shepherds to do what they like with their church, it is God's church not theirs...there is only one Head of the Body not many heads. A Body with many heads is a monster. In the Bible we see the example for us.. many churches, one church per city.. Roman Catholic say there is one visible church, one visible body of Christ on the earth.. wrong.. there is many.. many churches, one in each city.. others say there can be many church, many denomination within one city.. wrong.. bible says only one church in each city. In God's eyes, He only sees cities..Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus, Antioch.. these are all place names.. not denomination names.. not names of man (e.g. luther) or country (e.g. Church of England) or nation or race or culture (e.g. Chinese church, African church) or doctrine (eg baptist, presbyterian)..God sent Jesus to a city, Jonah to a city.. all prophets sent to cities.. Abraham prayed for the city.. God would not destroy the city if just a handful of righteous there.. city.. city..city.. God sees the city.. denomination means nothing...one world church also means nothing, may God open ur eyes to see His church as He sees it..as the bible reveals it.. city by city, not doctrine by doctrine.

 

[farout]

Brother in Christ, James1523: Denominations per se are not the Body of Christ, but the people who are born again believers are in the Body of Christ. I will not speak for all denominations, only the three I was involved in; Conservative Baptist, American Baptist Churches of the USA, and Southern Baptist. All of these denominations clearly state they, as believers olone, are a part of the Body of Christ, not the man orginazation, but as each believer has becomes a genuine born again believer, Never have I heard anything about "oneness", and a certian denomination being selective and beibg the BODY. Denominations for example Southern Baptist, is the name a group of Christians who each church help support Missions, because a large group of believers can send out missions fully equiped so they can minister without writting hundreds of letters asking for money. The best use of a mission is to have needs met before they leave the US. Of couurse denominations will not be in heaven, where did you assume they would? Denominations are the name given over the actual name if the group og beleivers working together.

Dear friend look closely at Matthew 25:34-46. Jesus did for certian tell us we are to feed the hungry, give a drink for the thursty, to clothe in need of clothing, heal the sick, visit those in prison, the list goes far beyond what is mentioned above. Jesus said to the extent that we do this even to the least of them to our brothers and sister's of His, wehavedone these kindnesses to HIM. my simple version. The New Testament is full of examples that we are to follow. Good works do not save anyone. Good works are a result of being a genuine Christian. Jesus did all the things required of a Jew, He lived and died and was killed by the very istitution that had become a religion not their faith in God. Jesus came for the Jews first even the disciples said thid until Paul was sent by God to the Gentiles.

"Anyone who supports denominations does not know God very well...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:1 ("And I, brenthren, could not speak to you as to spiriitual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ." those who follow deniminations are not spiritual but worldy, mere men babes in Christ. When we see God in a fuller way, we cannot agree with divisions and longer. You have made some reall judgemental statements, it is remarkable you have such spirituality to be able to adjudicate those who support a denomination who seeks only to equip people to know who Jesus is.

"Denominations do many good things but so do Muslim groups and athesists and Buddhist organizations also do good things in tough times." Tell me where and when you have ever heard that Muslims have done good things? I have never heard of a Buddhist organization helping anything or anyone. Only as a a person in involved in the mosques or temples is any good deed done.

"A main reason why denominations exist today is for convenience. It is convenient to meet with like-minded brethern.. it si easier..but it is not God's will." You have just spoken for God, are you aware of that? Scripture (the Bible) is complete now, so please give a verse to support your statement! Unless you can provide a verse to support you statement you are a false teacher!

"We should not make any distinction and not make a dividing wall between us. God receives them but we don't because we love the denomination more than God. If we love God more than the denomination there is no reason to separate our self from other believers. Friend by what you are saying I feel no Christian love for me, because I go to a Baptist Church that supports huge needs by a large number of churches that cam do much more than a single church. I have been a member of a Bible Church non-denominational church that sent a few hundred dollars a year to a few missions. I never heard then malign or critccize any denomination, I saw love and respect for genuine beleievers in Christ Jesus. Why do you feel the right to condemn and backbight all denominations as if all fenominations are the same? The truth is denominations are not the samne.

"But in God's church everyone is on the same level, no one is better than another..there are no pastors better than laity... 'common people' ..pastors don't lead from the front abd top down, they lead by example. Many pastors are like mini-popes in charge of their church. But there is only one shepherd in the church..Jesus Christ" ..........".... bible says only one church in each city." Once again you speak for God and give no Scripture to back your statement! I know of no Scripture that says only one church in each city. How would Los Angels work that out, or Denver, New york?

Jesus mentioned the word "LOVE" 54 times in the four Gospels all are related to His love for His father or how we are to love. You have not even said the word "love". How can we as genuine disciples of Jesus Christ show the world we are followers of Jesus if there bitter attacks made toward those who are christians, but have some areas of disagreement? How can a person be a christian and speak misconceptions about a group of felloe believers wfo seek to minister ib a large group rather than a small or large single church.

Many beleivers and non-believers will read these posts we have made. I dare say that many statements are so negative about churches I can see why some would never want to darken to door of some churches. I fail to see a "you are welcome here sign" in any of your posts. There is a bias against any denomination, as they must all be bad to the bone. There are several places that give the impression the Bible says things that it does not say what is posted.

Here is my suggestions: take a course on the Protestand reformation or read a book on it. Go and visit a conserative Bible believing Church that is a church that is in a denomination. Then look in a CONCORDANCE and study the words Jesus spoke oabou loving each other. This could let you have first hand knowledge and can speak with authority.

The more serious issue is DO NOT SPEAK FOR GOD UNLESS YOU QUOTE THE SCRIPTURE! pLEASE TELL ME HOW YOU THINK NOW.

 

[pundit711]

consider this
if we go to school to receive our education, we graduate and go out and earn a living.
the church system FAILS to graduate anyone to be conformed into the image of Christ. they eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. but never from the tree of life- this is still shut off from them- that is why they remain as they do.
The people are not ''saved'' by this man influenced system of worship. It is called the ''traditions of men''.
Jesus Himself declares He is outside knocking.
Now i do realise it is hard to accept, because most people are sincere about their churches and its meaning - but it is a great deception.
JESUS SAID ''LOOK AT THE FRUIT''.
and when we do - none are transformed into the image of Christ.
the fact is - this system has a '''''form''''' of godliness ONLY.


Jesus is forming up his ekklesia AND IT IS A HIDDEN BODY OF BELIEVERS, A SMALL FLOCK, A SMALL REMNANT ONLY - A GIDEON'S ARMY OF FAITHFULLS WHO ARE JUST BECAUSE THEY LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD.


tHEY ARE TRAINED UP TO have his type of faith CUZ THIS IS THE ONLY THING ''THAT WORLDS ARE MADE FROM''.

 

[revbrad]

I am no longer a member of a denomination, but the one one I was in (Free Will Baptist) and the several I associate and worship with now, do not feel they are "IT"
They know that each and every true believer is a member of "THE CHURCH"
Be careful....judge not lest ye be judged

 

[B-A-C]

There is fruit, if you look for it.

There are missions, there are food banks, people give to the poor, people feed the hungry, churches are built, cars are donated, there are organizations that go around building and restoring old homes for people who can't afford them, there are people who go to the store and buy groceries for people, there are people who pre-pay for the groceries of the person in line behind them, there are missionaries going to foreign countries, leaving their families behind to spread the gospel, there are people that paint houses, help people move, mow other peoples grass, there are people that volunteer their time, babysit for free, volunteer their talents for free (only 1 of the churches I have gone to in the last 30 years pay the musicians) there are people who visit those in prison and pray for them, there are people who visit the elderly in nursing homes and the hospital (not just relatives) there are people who adopt neglected and abused children, there are people who offer to adopt children that are going to be aborted, there are people who take in abused women (even if they have children) there are some state government that do these things, but there are many more people who do these things without getting any pay or recognition for them, there are volunteers that work at crisis hot-lines and counsel and pray for people, there is forgiveness, there is reconciliation, there is love, there is joy,

I know doctors, dentists, plumbers, carpenters, musicians, and many more that donate their services to the poor.

..not in everyone everywhere, it's true. But it's all around us if we look for it. Better yet, become a part of it. If we see no fruit, what are we doing about it besides complaining?

 

[pundit711]

yes - the tree of GOOD is ever present - that is why deception is only revealed by taking upon us the yoke of Jesus Himself.

as for ''judging '' perhaps this too is misunderstood - why?
because none really like to be told they are doing the wrong thing - they get agro, why?
''for each man does what is right in their own eyes'' and the ''church system'' love to drag out ''dont judge me draw card when ''fruit inspection'' is a NT necessity.
the church system controls the pews with their ''judgement '' verse =shooosh dont rock the boat.

You know, how strange it is, to see the Holy Spirit in control - Ananias and Saphira - lied and dropped dead all over a small piece of land, that none gave 2 bits about - --- i wonder what would happen today if the Holy Spirit did visit these places of apostacy?
THE WARNING was given out - but man and his religious beliefs never heard it.
what is so sad is - the deceptions and how men did not love the truth to be saved.

the fact is SIN KILLS.
IF YOU STOP SINNING YOU LIVE= THAT IS THE TRUTH.
Jesus said a few times ''Go and sin no more''
you have a choice
die '''IN''' sin
or
die """TO"" sin = what ever the choice you make you die.

 

[B-A-C]

i wonder what would happen today if the Holy Spirit did visit these places of apostacy?
THE WARNING was given out - but man and his religious beliefs never heard it.
what is so sad is - the deceptions and how men did not love the truth to be saved.

For the true believers, we don't have to wait for the Spirit.
1 Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

But you are right, there are many that won't be saved, don't want to be saved, and see no need to be saved. "Saved from what?" I am sometimes asked.

 

[pundit711]

another sad fact to face is JESUS WAS NEVER A CHRISTIAN.


GHANDI, THE LATE pm OF iNDIA, READ THE BIBLE, he SAID '' i WOULD BELIEVE THE BIBLE IF i COULD FIND A MAN LIKE jESUS ' why is there none?'
you see ''christian'' is without christ FOR JESUS NEVER CAME TO FORM OF NEW RELIGION.
He came the begotten CHRIST - as we too can become Begotten in Christ.
the church system puts Jesus outside of themselves - yet, He is happy to call many believers 'brethren''.
updated -
saved from what?
death,
flawed thinking,
sin,
rebellion,
fears,
doubting the lord's words -
wretchedness, and defilments -
ALL INHERITED FROM 1 MAN. - all belong to the realm of the Matrix


christianity belongs to the Matrix.
how so?
it fails to produce the fruits of salvation in its people.
but
what is salvation - nt salvation that is?
SALVATION IS TO BE MADE IN THE IMAGE OF CHRIST AND TO WALK THIS EARTH AS he did AND 'BE' AS HE IS. here and today.
SALVATION IS THE FULLNESS OF GOD IN MAN - as per Messiah.

YOU SEE 1ST WE ARE A SPIRITUAL BEING AND 2ND WE HAVE BEEN LOWERED INTO A CLAY HUMAN FORMED BODY - THAT IS WONDERFULLY MADE.
WE ALL WERE NOT LOWERED WILLINGLY. but we were - to learn a vital lesson ''what God do ye serve''?
THEREFORE IT WILL BE IN OUR BEST INTERESTS to serve the living god.
to become ''quickened with the divine life'' and then be trained up to be the redeemed = NOTICE these shall follow no other but the saviour.
why?
well life is not found in any other being.
If you are IN christ and Christ is in you HIS LIFE OPERATES AND DEATH IS NO MORE.
Jesus said '' few find eternal life'' - the same life as He is.....
WHERE is this life found in christianity? no CHRISTIANITY is a FORM ONLY.
WHAT men think of as a worship and a church and a good life is NOT NT bible.

AGAIN
THE LESSON WE ALL HAD TO LEARN IS..........
WHAT GOD WE SERVE...................................
each man is faced with this choice and their lives are exposed before all as to ''what God rules them''
remember SIN KILLS. - what God was installed within''?
that's THE JUDGMENT - wages paid out in death - an EMPLOYEE OF DEATH.
Jesus SALVATION IS freedom from the curse of sin and death - HIS SAYINGS OBEYED remove sin and death from us as we suffer the war with our carnal mind that is INTENT UPON OUR DESTRUCTION.

something to ponder.
each founder of a church is dead.
what killed them = sin did.
if sin killed them they were not saved to walk in the liberty of the cross - they failed their walk and were paid their wages, they were in the employment of death,
Have you ever read, what happened the day Jesus died from the Gospel of Nicodemus?
Did you read how the devil and death had an enormous fight and fall out.
Did you ever read how death accused the devil of killing an innocent man- a man without sin and what this act would now do to death's realm?
Yes sir, it sure makes for interesring reading....to find out these hidden things as all truthseekers do.
When you sit under dead founders of all divisional systems you 2 shall die for you were never meant to sit there but at the feet of Jesus.
its hard to break away from apostacy and only the calling out of Jesus shall set men free.

 

[revbrad]

Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Christian means Christ like

 

[pundit711]

Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Christian means Christ like

it may well be revbrad WRITTEN but alas a name doesn't make the man. did Jesus name them'christians' or man?
perhaps this was their first mistake. Man is unable to form Christ only EMMANUAL can. HE IS THE WAY OF LIFE INTO THE TRUTH.

That is why Jesus was never a 'christian'.
HE was called the son of God. - whose advent birthed a NEW CREATIONAL realm CHILDREN to be called sons of God a royal house of priests and kings in the Order of imperishable life. [ A LIFE THAT DOES NOT DIE it has no beginning and no end - in the rank of Melchedezek ]
or MELCHEDEZEKIANS.
never 'christians' - they die to sin.
.
''CHRIST'' THE ACTION POWERHOUSE VERB of the Father's power.
perhaps today the world see = ''-IANS'', THE MISSING LINK IS 'CHRIST THE VERB OF KINGDOM VALUES AND POWER'

HIS name is ''the SON OF GOD''
abba, The father HAS sons and daughters, fashioned into the likeness of the real Father. ADOPTED INTO THE MOST HIGH REALM.
The UNLIMITED REALM , the NORMAL REALM for the lives we were all meant to dwell in here.
CHRISTIANS are abnormal and limited insomuch they die in sins.
THE ''MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING' remains ever present as their grim reaper
why? rev brad. WHY So?
BECAUSE CHRISTIANS NEVER learnt how to take upon them THE ANOINTING AND THE YOKE of the saviour -
yes they did try to be good
and
yes they were very sincere
and
yes they failed to WIN THE RACE TO RECEIVE THE PRIZE the crown of life.

Revbrad. Jesus didnt lie to us when He said ''the man made church system now is wretched naked blind and miserable - HIS WORDS - HIS REJECTION - HE HAS REJECTED THE SYSTEM OF MEN.
wretched - still dying, sick and victims of satan
miserable - always waiting never achieving the completeness or fullness of the Holy Spirit
naked - never clothed in glory, honour, eternal life, immortal like [roms 2 v 7]
blind - cannot see their deceptions.

VICTIMS DIE
The VICTORIOUS LIVETH AS HIS OVERCOMERS..... see the middle verse of rev 12 v 11.....
NOW THAT is the EKKLESIA OF THE LORD and they aint churchy divisional christians but BELIEVER OVERCOMERS VICTORIOUS FOR THEIR SAVIOUR, FASHIONED IN HIS IMAGE TO BE CO-HEIRS WITH HIM.
now that is what Ghandi wanted to see for it is right out of the glorious Gospel n NT.
it doesnt pay to worship in vain.
i feel so sad at the gross blindness of a people who are convinced they are saved. The hirelings dont look after their sheep- they kill them thru ignorance ''MY PEOPLE PERISH FROM LACK OF KNOWLEDGE'' - reverse this-
''MY PEOPLE REMAIN ALIVE AS MY LIVING STONES IN MY TEMPLE called THE CITY OF GOD - ZION WHOM I AM BUILDING UP - BECAUSE OF RECEIVING THE TRUTH THAT HAS SET THEM FREE FROM THE CURSE OF ADAM''

do you see the difference rev brad.?

 

[james1523]

Brother in Christ, James1523: Denominations per se are not the Body of Christ, but the people who are born again believers are in the Body of Christ. I will not speak for all denominations, only the three I was involved in; Conservative Baptist, American Baptist Churches of the USA, and Southern Baptist. All of these denominations clearly state they, as believers olone, are a part of the Body of Christ, not the man orginazation, but as each believer has becomes a genuine born again believer, Never have I heard anything about "oneness", and a certian denomination being selective and beibg the BODY. Denominations for example Southern Baptist, is the name a group of Christians who each church help support Missions, because a large group of believers can send out missions fully equiped so they can minister without writting hundreds of letters asking for money. The best use of a mission is to have needs met before they leave the US. Of couurse denominations will not be in heaven, where did you assume they would? Denominations are the name given over the actual name if the group og beleivers working together.

Denominations will state that..they are part of the Body of Christ.. but they do not practice the Body of Christ...they remain in independence...why they do not share bread and wine together every Sunday??Why some meet in their Baptist church and have bread and wine but others meet in pentecostal church on the same street close by and do not all meet together? If you have children do you not ask them all to sit at the dinner table together to share the meal? Or do you separate them into different rooms of your house according to what they believe???

The key feature of the Body of Christ is unity and oneness... here Paul speaks to all the believers in the city of Corinth (not all the believers within a sect/party/denomination):
1 Cor 12:21 "The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!""
When American Baptist or Lutheran or any group of believers.. say they can do God's work by themselves.. they are doing like says in 1 Cor 12:21 "I don't need you".

Also, taking a name other than Christ...of doctrinal belief or practice (e.g. baptist) or nationality (e.g. American) is no where supported in scripture. In Heaven if God is not going to separate believers by their belief or nationality or race.. then why should we the church.. as God's dwelling place on Earth.. separate?

Dear friend look closely at Matthew 25:34-46. Jesus did for certian tell us we are to feed the hungry, give a drink for the thursty, to clothe in need of clothing, heal the sick, visit those in prison, the list goes far beyond what is mentioned above. Jesus said to the extent that we do this even to the least of them to our brothers and sister's of His, wehavedone these kindnesses to HIM. my simple version. The New Testament is full of examples that we are to follow. Good works do not save anyone. Good works are a result of being a genuine Christian. Jesus did all the things required of a Jew, He lived and died and was killed by the very istitution that had become a religion not their faith in God. Jesus came for the Jews first even the disciples said thid until Paul was sent by God to the Gentiles.

You speak of many good works and they are necessary of course but you have missed the key thing.. unity and oneness. Based on Jesus's prayer in John 17.. Unity and oneness is a greater testimony to the world than many good works. Consider Jesus's prayer:

John 17:20 ""My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,"
This prayer is not just for the early church, but for all of us who have believe today.

John 17:21
"that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."


John 17:23
"I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me."
Denominations and divisions are not "perfect unity".

Consider the early church.. the apostles and other ministers had different ministeries.. but they all ministered to the one body of Christ. They did not separate themselves and call themselve by name of who they followed:

1 Cor 3:4 "For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?"

When we say I follow Baptist.. I follow Luther (eg Lutheran), I follow Calvin (eg Presbyterian).. are we not mere men?

"Anyone who supports denominations does not know God very well...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:1 ("And I, brenthren, could not speak to you as to spiriitual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ." those who follow deniminations are not spiritual but worldy, mere men babes in Christ. When we see God in a fuller way, we cannot agree with divisions and longer. You have made some reall judgemental statements, it is remarkable you have such spirituality to be able to adjudicate those who support a denomination who seeks only to equip people to know who Jesus is.

I speak of following the denomination... following, supporting, promoting, the denomination, to the exclusion of all others, making separation, division and distinction between fellow believers in the Lord. This is not a judgement but a statement of fact according to 1 Cor 3:1 "worldly, men of flesh, infants in Christ".. an infant in Christ does not know Christ well enough to overcome differences/disagreements in non-essential doctrine and unite as one church in the Lord.

"Denominations do many good things but so do Muslim groups and athesists and Buddhist organizations also do good things in tough times." Tell me where and when you have ever heard that Muslims have done good things? I have never heard of a Buddhist organization helping anything or anyone. Only as a a person in involved in the mosques or temples is any good deed done.

There are many... organisations such as "Islamic Relief"..buddhist organisations such as "Tzu Chi foundation"..charity organisations, both religious and non-religious are numerous.

"A main reason why denominations exist today is for convenience. It is convenient to meet with like-minded brethern.. it si easier..but it is not God's will." You have just spoken for God, are you aware of that? Scripture (the Bible) is complete now, so please give a verse to support your statement! Unless you can provide a verse to support you statement you are a false teacher!

OK some verses to support my statement:

All churches in the bible were by city name not denominational name.. if you can find evidence of even one denomination in the Bible then please provide the verse!
Rev 3:3 To the angelof the church in Sardis write:
etc

Even so, this is not a name of idenitfication.. they all identified themselves as simply Christians:
Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
Antioch is a city, not denomination. There was only one church in Antioch, and all the believers within that city were in the church in Antioch. They did not call themselves "the Antioch Christians", or any other name.. they just called themselves Christians. There were both Jew and Gentile Christians.. but they did not divide themself and say "I am Jew Christian or I am Gentile Christian"...Jew and Gentile did not meet separately but together:

Even so-called "messianic/Jewish " denominations are also guilty of dividing the Body of Christ..because Jew and Gentile met and ate together in the bible... Gal 2:12 "When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision."

Let me make clear that Christians in the Bible were never identified by where they met (park, home, city, country, nation), what they believed (baptism, tongue speaking, Saturday Sabbath keeping), or their race or culture (American, Chinese, Korean )..but only by who they believed in (Christ Jesus) and the city or village in which they lived (church in Jerusalem, church in Ephesus.. etc).


Further proof is that the Bible reveals that unity and oneness is God's heart:

1 Cor 1:13 "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?"
If Christ is divided then we should meet together in divisions. But if Christ is not divided then we should not.

1 Cor 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
Meeting in denominations separates ourselves from other believers hence "I have no need of you". This is seen clearly when there are two or more denominations on the same street. Two or more denomination on same street - there is no practical reason they cannot meet together.. there is no reason they cannot meet together to share bread and wine.. pray, sing to God and worship. Instead of sharing one loaf they all share many loaves but the bible says:

1 Cor 10:17 "Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf."

"We should not make any distinction and not make a dividing wall between us. God receives them but we don't because we love the denomination more than God. If we love God more than the denomination there is no reason to separate our self from other believers. Friend by what you are saying I feel no Christian love for me, because I go to a Baptist Church that supports huge needs by a large number of churches that cam do much more than a single church. I have been a member of a Bible Church non-denominational church that sent a few hundred dollars a year to a few missions. I never heard then malign or critccize any denomination, I saw love and respect for genuine beleievers in Christ Jesus. Why do you feel the right to condemn and backbight all denominations as if all fenominations are the same? The truth is denominations are not the samne.

Genuine love for fellow believers in Christ is shown by meeting together with them in oneness: See John 17:22-23 :
John 17:22-23 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

Separation into denominations because of non-essential doctrinal difference is not a sign of love and respect for all believers in Christ.

The Body of Christ being divided into denominations is not God's will (see Jesus's prayer in John 17 and other verses I give above).. therefore all denominations are the same in this respect...not in the will of God..
Jesus never started them.. the apostles never started them..there will not be denomination in Heaven... so if you have bible verses to prove that denominations are God's will then please post them.

"But in God's church everyone is on the same level, no one is better than another..there are no pastors better than laity... 'common people' ..pastors don't lead from the front abd top down, they lead by example. Many pastors are like mini-popes in charge of their church. But there is only one shepherd in the church..Jesus Christ" ..........".... bible says only one church in each city." Once again you speak for God and give no Scripture to back your statement! I know of no Scripture that says only one church in each city. How would Los Angels work that out, or Denver, New york?

In the Bible from the book of Acts and Paul's epistles and the book of Revelation we see that there was the church (singular) in Jerusalem, Antioch, Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, Corinth, Phillipi.. these are city names not denominational names. The apostles commissioned by the Lord Jesus only established one church in each city...not many churches within each city, and definitely not identified by their belief, practice, leader (there was no "church of Paul, or church of Peter".. There are no denominational names in the bible...but if you know of any then please provide the verse.

Jesus mentioned the word "LOVE" 54 times in the four Gospels all are related to His love for His father or how we are to love. You have not even said the word "love". How can we as genuine disciples of Jesus Christ show the world we are followers of Jesus if there bitter attacks made toward those who are christians, but have some areas of disagreement? How can a person be a christian and speak misconceptions about a group of felloe believers wfo seek to minister ib a large group rather than a small or large single church.

The word love is not in the book of Acts even once. Even though the book of Acts is the book recording the spreading of the gospel and building up of church.. even though the book of Acts spans 30 years and is a long book with 28 chapters.. and it records the preaching of the gospel to all kinds of people... love is not mentioned once.. the truth is when the apostles preached the gospel, they did not preach about love. They did not have to because their actions showed God's love, the fact that they were all of one mind, one heart, in one accord:

Spoken to all Christians within the church in the city of Phillipi:
Phillipians 2:2 "Then make me truly happy by agreeing wholeheartedly with each other, loving one another, and working together with one mind and purpose."

How can we show the world we are followers of Jesus if we don't have oneness and unity. Love is shown by oneness and unity and a stumbling block for the gospel is the fact that God's children are divided, the world sees and knows this and sees no love between the denominations. You can preach and talk about love but show it in your actions by your unity and oneness.

Many beleivers and non-believers will read these posts we have made. I dare say that many statements are so negative about churches I can see why some would never want to darken to door of some churches. I fail to see a "you are welcome here sign" in any of your posts. There is a bias against any denomination, as they must all be bad to the bone. There are several places that give the impression the Bible says things that it does not say what is posted.

All denominations are not bad.. but scripture reveals that all denominations are not in God's will and it is not how God started His church. Joining a denomination does not equal joining the Body of Christ. Scripture reveals denominations are not God's will.. the church existed for many years without them, and they did not lack in any spiritual thing. Your own words spoke the truth in your first sentence "Denominations per se are not the Body of Christ"...
Brother here is the difference. The Body of Christ only has believers, saved people in it. Denominations have many unsaved people in it. The reason is to join a denomination you do not have to be a believer in Christ, you do not have to be saved. For hundreds of years the only requirement to join the Catholic Church or Church of England or Lutheran Church was to be born into it..and you get water baptised sprinkled as baby or adult to symbolise this. If you are born into a denomination then they say you are saved and going to heaven. Of course this produces many false converts. This is the difference between Body of Christ and denomination.. God's church and man's church. In man's church you do not have to be saved to join the church. Please be careful that non-believers reading your post do not get the idea that they can join a denomination and so be saved...do not confuse Body of Christ with denomination...believer and non-believer must know the difference.

Here is my suggestions: take a course on the Protestand reformation or read a book on it. Go and visit a conserative Bible believing Church that is a church that is in a denomination. Then look in a CONCORDANCE and study the words Jesus spoke oabou loving each other. This could let you have first hand knowledge and can speak with authority.

Oneness and unity between all believers within a city/village is in the Bible, denominations are not. Please check the Scriptures and see for yourself.

 

[farout]

James1523: You are not seeing that a denomination is not a church. There is a local body of believers in a local church that have a common bond with other like minded believers in a church a distance away. They join together for the reason to have more of an impact for Christ in lets say missions, or for a national need that one church would have little effect, but working with other Churches they pool their resources to accomplish greater good for Christ. Paul collected an offering from other churches for the Jerusalem church. That is exactaly what a denomination is all about. There is more encouragement by churches in towns, cities, village's for the churches to work together, rather than be isolated. I experienced this in Wisconsin when I was a postor of a Baptist church. There were 6 churches one was Roman Catholic. At christmas the community wanted a special service of Christmass songs and a play put on by christians in the different churches. The nondenominational Baptist church never was involved in any community effort to help needy people, or deliever food to older helpless adults. You may say non-denominational is not a denomination, but just read the "Sord of the Lord" and many non-denominational do indeed link together. You may not call it a denomination, but many see it as if it was. If you are happy, and believe you are doing what the Lord has for you to do, that's great. If you hate denominations and feel it's not God's will then stay away from denominations.

After several long post's back and forth I don't see any way to resolve the different ways we see how ministry should be done in the most effictive Biblical way. After reading Romans Chapters 11, 12 13, and 14. I think Romans 14:4 says it best. "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ." 14:22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not comdemn himself in what he approves." NASB.

The very example I have expressed about how we believers can have areas we disagree about, but not be disagreeable with one another. For my part I wish you well and may God bless yiu.