Demonic possession-v-Demonic influence!

[Davy]

There are a number of accounts in the bible of demon possession, where Jesus or his apostles cast them out. Today, there are still genuine accounts although very rare of people who are or have been demon possessed, the majority being in south Africa and south America. So there does not seam to be any reason to be overly concerned with being demon possessed, unless you dabble in the occult.

However, I have often thought of the account of not demonic possession but demonic influence in Act 5:1-10. Ananias was clearly a first century Christian who was also born again with the holy spirit. Yet the bible tells us, Satan was able to influence this man through his pride and greed. So having the holy spirit does not necessarily protect you from demonic influence. It is after all due to free-will, God will protect you as long as you stay loyal to him. But in the case of this man, Ananias he clearly had no idea he was being influenced by Satan.

Clearly God gave Satan permission to influence Ananias and posses Judas, it was up to them to resist Satan's influence. It could quite easily be the same today, God has given Satan and his demons permission to test his servants on earth.

So, how can you tell if you are just yielding to some works of the flesh, or being influenced by Satan or a demon?

And, how can you protect yourself? Don't just write prayer! Ananias and Judas would have prayed regularly and also read the bible regularly and no doubt manifested some of the gifts of the spirit!!!

 

[gdemoss]

So, how can you tell if you are just yielding to some works of the flesh, or being influenced by Satan or a demon?

Excellent question. My personal experience from reading the scriptures to understand when I am fighting off advances of sin within me that is trying to have dominion and manifest itself in the world through me, versus a demonic influence from a devil who is tempting me to sin, has been that sin seems to react immediately through my eyes when they are in direct alignment with that which I can be tempted by. A devil on the other hand seems to work to fill my heart full of evil when my senses are not even involved. These attacks come in the form of thoughts that seem to originate out of nowhere.

And, how can you protect yourself? Don't just write prayer! Ananias and Judas would have prayed regularly and also read the bible regularly and no doubt manifested some of the gifts of the spirit!!!

I protect myself from sins attacks by strengthening my spirit through exercising myself unto godliness in direct communion of the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. Getting before the Word of God for the purpose of sanctification as prescribed in John 17:3. Increasing my faith by praying that God will impart more faith unto me through direct interaction with me in his creation.

Protection from a direct attack by a devil is through resistance alone as James spoke of. Devils have no patience with me. They want me to act immediately upon everything they offer. If I bring every thought captive unto the anointing within me, then the devil gets frustrated with me and leaves quickly.

The simple answer to all of this should be putting on the full armor of God right? But I must admit that I read it and did not understand what it meant to do such a thing. Experience is a great teacher. I experienced first hand how having my shoes shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace could help me when confronted with someone who had been demonically influenced themselves. How the breastplate of righteousness and having our loins gird about with truth keeps us from allowing Satan to bring Gods judgment against us as he is the accuser of the brethren. The shield of faith to fend off the fiery darts of the wicked, for example, knowing that God said that he will not allow me to be tempted above that which I am able I am able to withstand when the demon is whispering that I cannot possibly resist, but must sin.

I pray that God will bless each and everyone of you with the strength of the anointing of his Holy Spirit to carry you through all temptation faithfully enduring it and thus receiving at the end of your faith the salvation of your souls.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[jari]

hi Davy,

Ananias and Judas werent believers in correct sense.
They didnt have holy spirit. How do i know? Bible doesnt say they did have. So to assume ananias did is just assumption...

Judas certainly didnt as all the disciples did not receive Holy spirit until Jesus' resurrection.

and i dont think ananias would have tried to lie if he'd actually had holy spirit , he tried to lie because he didnt know the power of God.

 

[gdemoss]

Ananias...

A note about Ananias, he like Sodom and Gamorrah, was made an example unto us by God without mercy even though he could have supplied the necessary goodness to lead them to repentance. It will be more tollerable for Ananias in that day than for those who read his account but did the same thing he did anyway.

 

[jari]

A note about Ananias, he like Sodom and Gamorrah, was made an example unto us by God without mercy even though he could have supplied the necessary goodness to lead them to repentance. It will be more tollerable for Ananias in that day than for those who read his account but did the same thing he did anyway.

you mean try to lie to Holy spirit? why would person try to lie to God in first place...? I think he didnt believe.
can't think any other reason why person tries to lie to God than plain unbelief in existance of God.

 

[gdemoss]

you mean try to lie to Holy spirit? why would person try to lie to God in first place...? I think he didnt believe.
can't think any other reason why person tries to lie to God than plain unbelief in existance of God.

Jari, over the course of my walk with God, I have seen this one from both sides, arguing that Ananias could not have been saved as well as that he absolutely must have been. I understand anyone who ends up on either side of that thought. Anyone who is willing to sell a house and give the majority of the money to a group that claims to be Gods people is a believer in my eyes. The idea of lying to the Holy Spirit when one possesses the Holy Spirit is on the same level as grieving the Holy Spirit in the possibility of being done. Believe as you may, I see more reason to believe that they believed than not.

Gary

 

[Brother Mike]

Possessed or oppressed.

I have dealt with many Devil type situations. There are many examples where believers acted on what the devil was telling them. Such as Peter, and Jesus rebuked Satan. Jesus did not cast the devil though out of Peter.

The dumb boy who wondered in the fire, the man in chains would be both cases for being possessed.

The fist time I cast a devil out of someone was someone that was born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit. He was out of his mind until the Lord had me get involved and tell that spirit to go. (Notice the Lord asked me, I did not act on my own.)

So certainly this man through disobedience and allowing the devil place gave complete control over, even though he was saved.

Ananias, Satan certainly killed both of them as Satan had filled their heart, both seemed to be of sound mind. Both however were drawn away and enticed by their own lust. Satan does not get the blame in this.
The question I ask as a believer is not if they where Possessed, but why was judgement so harsh?

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

So certainly this man through disobedience and allowing the devil place gave complete control over, even though he was saved.

how do you know he was saved?
he spoke in tongues?

 

[Brother Mike]

How do you know he is saved.

how do you know he was saved?
he spoke in tongues?

No, I did not hear him speak in tongues, He told me he gave his life to the Lord, and was baptized in the Holy Spirit. He had been going to church but was lonely. He met this girl somewhere who practiced witch craft, and in attempts to impress her he told me he sort of got in involved with her in a few things.

He soon stopped going to Church faithfully, and started to hear voices, things just got worse and worse to where he could not work, and lived in a men's shelter. He was soon completely gone mentally, coming in the shelter screaming about all kinds of strange things.

It was one of these days I was at the Men shelter he came in screaming again, that the Lord asked me to get involved.

So, I only have what he told me, and he was such a mess, I believed he told me the whole true story.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[Miss Elly]

you mean try to lie to Holy spirit? why would person try to lie to God in first place...? I think he didnt believe.
can't think any other reason why person tries to lie to God than plain unbelief in existance of God.

He lied to the Holy Spirit in Peter. He was a believer, he knew Go existed.

Acts, Chapter 5

<SUP id=en-KJV-27063 class=versenum>3</SUP>But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land

<SUP>4</SUP>Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Some people act like are they are born again that they unable to sin. Sure they can. Satan tempts all christians. Paul and other apostles constantly preached to help christians not to sin. People have a will, they can sin, knowing the Lord and his existence. This time God was so angry he killed the man and his wife. I'm not their judge, but I would not want to be in their shoes.

 

[Peace Seeker]

Originally Posted by Davy
So, how can you tell if you are just yielding to some works of the flesh, or being influenced by Satan or a demon?

My personal experience from reading the scriptures to understand when I am fighting off advances of sin within me that is trying to have dominion and manifest itself in the world through me, versus a demonic influence from a devil who is tempting me to sin, has been that sin seems to react immediately through my eyes when they are in direct alignment with that which I can be tempted by. A devil on the other hand seems to work to fill my heart full of evil when my senses are not even involved. These attacks come in the form of thoughts that seem to originate out of nowhere.

Thank you for this excellent answer. You made a great point that your senses aren't involved when it is of the devil, which is a different case when it involves works of the flesh.

Works of the flesh - such as lust - entice us and we then consciously fulfill the lust of the flesh. If I have a "wandering eye" for women, this is a fleshly desire, and I will be enticed by women I see because of that desire. Whereas if I by nature don't have a "wandering eye" and the thought pops into my head to "check her out", I can bet it is a temptation from the accuser.

James 1:14-15
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-30250">14</sup>But every man is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-30251">15</sup>Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

If a thought enters our mind to deny God, if we in our heart are desiring to do so, it is a fleshly desire, but if we have no desire or intention to deny God, it is a satanic temptation.

I pray that God will bless each and everyone of you with the strength of the anointing of his Holy Spirit to carry you through all temptation faithfully enduring it and thus receiving at the end of your faith the salvation of your souls.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

I accept and thank you for this prayer, God bless!

 

[Brother Mike]

The devil.

The devils running around, and there are many everywhere of different rank, and authority, are all defeated.

A bunch of defeated devils.

God gave Earth to man, this whole planet belongs to us until the lease runs out. Devils came here like a thief, they conned their way in.

A devil has no power, no authority, but what man gives them.

If you notice thought patterns you can tell if it's just a devil. Devils will put in your head some of the most crazy things.

Jump off the building, Strangle your wife, push that kid in front of that moving bus.

These thoughts we just shake out of our heads. There is nothing wrong with us, but no devil knows what your going to meditate on and buy into. None of them do.

So, the thoughts come, and they watch to see which one pulls on the lust of your flesh. Once they have something, they will push that button until you take the button away.

Even lets say you find a lump on your body..... BAM, it's cancer, it's a disease, it's a parasite living in you, its.................... 100 different things and scenarios, none of them true.

Which one will you agree with and sign up for?

Devils just need our agreement, then they need us to act.

Don't give place to the devil.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Yo Jari.

Hello Jari, hope your well. I noticed you were making assumptions again. I provided some extra scriptural verses that preceeded the verses in question, namely the verses about Ananias and Sapphira in chapter five of the book of Acts. Context!

Acts 2

43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.

44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,

45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

Acts 4

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold,

35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

Acts 5

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.

2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?

4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

1) You will notice from the lines that I have highlighted, it is impossible to assume that Ananias and Sapphira did not have the Holy Spirit. Grace was upon them all it says.

2) Ananias and Sapphira were in this church, read this " Now all who believed were together ".

It is unwise to assume that they did not have the Holy Spirit, they believed in Jesus Jari.

That is why they were giving to the apostles of their posessions.

3) I do not understand why you persist in speculation. These two lied to Peter and the Holy Spirit.They thought they would get away with it. The message is do not lie to God. Peter said,"why has Satan filled your heart". They were members of the church Jari, no unbeliever
would give their property to the church. Especially when it was so new, a sect.

Why, oh why do you speculate whether they had the Holy Spirit.
Why were they judged so promptly and swiftly Jari. It is so
obvious.

 

[Furious_Love]

If I can be honest, I am of the understanding that we can be demonised. The question arises can a Christian be demonised. That is a great debate that has been around for a long time I gather. Saul was tormented by demons which may equate to mental illness. He knew the Lord as did Ananias and Judas.

(1 Samuel 16:14) The spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and he was tormented by an evil spirit sent by the LORD. (15) So the servants of Saul said to him: "Please! An evil spirit from God is tormenting you.

This may answer the question of can the hand of the Lord depart from you or once saved can we lose our salvation.

As Christians we believe in a spiritual realm. So can we as Christians be demonised? (Matt 16:23) He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do."

This verse indicates it was not a rhetorical statement but rather a confirmation that Satan can hinder us.

I have had personal experience of deliverance from the snare of the enemy and can say if we believe Jesus is Lord and live out our life’s according to the Word of God the enemy can tempt us (Matt 4:1) and may even speak to us through our minds; yet a poem I wrote answers this question for ME.

“There’s an Angel on my shoulder and a demon on my back with the sword of truth’s full frontal attack.”

Put on the full armour of God and be diligent and aware the enemy wants you to succumb to his way of thinking. We are in a war for our minds and soul.

Our thoughts belong to us and God. We can be tormented as Saul was and even rebuked as Peter was yet if our heart, mind and soul are towards God we know the Enemy will come to kill, steal and destroy what is rightfully given to us through Jesus. So both possession and influence can be true.

In saying this, there is much to be said that we or I cannot understand, trying to make sense of it is part of our journey. I am only a layman but think of these things the best I can.

Peace Be With You.

 

[Brother Mike]

Great information everyone.

Everyone has given great information. David777 mentioned that Ananias and Sapphira Where spirit filled Christians.

There is no issue here, believers can also give place to demonic spirits.

The issue comes from the Word Possessed. Nobody knows what that means, and Oppressed. Whats the difference.

Ananias and Sapphira Certainly where not Possessed of mind, as other cases in the bible where there is no reasonable mental thinking occurring.
There is no evidence that any devil oppressed them or possessed them until they followed through with the lust of their own thinking.

Because whom much is given, much is required, seeing the power of God, and Holy Spirit everyday, Satan gained entrance because of the revelation they had and killed them.

Satan had a place to do so, just as Paul turned over someone to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

Every believer here is subject to oppression from any evil spirit, and if you meditate on the lies long enough, you give that wrong spirit a place, it will start to effect you ability to think properly, giving into irrational fear.

Even so much one would think you are possessed.

Devils don't just to pop into us, and BAM we are possessed. They must have a place, and they work years sometimes bring someone down to the point where a person will do as the devil tells them.

Hollywood certainly has not helped much in understanding this.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Hi David

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.

Certain man, seems to imply these werent part of the assembly before. They were just joining and hence scripture says they told everything and came to lay it on apostoles feet.

It is unwise to assume that they did not have the Holy Spirit, they believed in Jesus Jari.

They observed revival.

That is why they were giving to the apostles of their posessions.

they just wanted to be part of God's church though they didnt have faith like others. They saw a revival and wanted to be part of it. Anyone wants to be part of big events right?
They saw something big was going on and wanted part of that, even they may not know what it was all about and they probably figured they need to sell their lands to get in it, so they did.

no mention weather they had faith or not.

Why were they judged so promptly and swiftly Jari. It is so
obvious.

God doesnt kill of his children who try to lie to to Him. and God's children know better that you cant lie to God. Only person who has no knowledge of God would try to trick God as he doesnt know how great God is.


scripture is absolutely silent regarding their faith status and its more reasonable assumption to assume they didnt have any faith or knowledge what it was all about.
they just wanted to be part of it too.

God bless you

 

[jari]

Hi Miss Elly

He lied to the Holy Spirit in Peter. He was a believer, he knew Go existed.

Acts, Chapter 5

<SUP id=en-KJV-27063 class=versenum>3</SUP>But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land

<SUP>4</SUP>Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

if they had known of Holy spirit existance they wouldnt have tried to lie. Only christians can truly understand how powerful God is. These people had in my opinion no knowledge of God.

Also they didnt know the christians sold their possesion because of faith and they thought that they need to pay the price inorder to get to this new thing that was going on. So they tried to lie because they didnt do it cheerfully like the believers did.

shows they didnt have faith at all to me.

God bless you

 

[jari]

Hi Gary

Jari, over the course of my walk with God, I have seen this one from both sides, arguing that Ananias could not have been saved as well as that he absolutely must have been. I understand anyone who ends up on either side of that thought. Anyone who is willing to sell a house and give the majority of the money to a group that claims to be Gods people is a believer in my eyes. The idea of lying to the Holy Spirit when one possesses the Holy Spirit is on the same level as grieving the Holy Spirit in the possibility of being done. Believe as you may, I see more reason to believe that they believed than not.

Gary

believer yes, in sense that they believe its worth it. But not understanding salvation is of grace and trying to BUY it. No. - that's not true believer, as in correct sense how we are supposed to believe.

if any one came to church with thousand dollars stating he wishes to be saved i'd be 100% he doesnt know what salvation is about.
and if you'd ask him doesnt he have more he could lie saying no while he still had another thousand dollars that he wanted to save but tried to get saved with this amount.
just like annanias tried to do.
on the other hand he wanted heaven on the other hand he wanted keep his money.
And he thought money sacrafice was nesessary for salvation.

God bless you

 

[gdemoss]

Hi Gary


believer yes, in sense that they believe its worth it. But not understanding salvation is of grace and trying to BUY it. No. - that's not true believer, as in correct sense how we are supposed to believe.

if any one came to church with thousand dollars stating he wishes to be saved i'd be 100% he doesnt know what salvation is about.
and if you'd ask him doesnt he have more he could lie saying no while he still had another thousand dollars that he wanted to save but tried to get saved with this amount.
just like annanias tried to do.
on the other hand he wanted heaven on the other hand he wanted keep his money.
And he thought money sacrafice was nesessary for salvation.

God bless you

Thank you for your input, believe as your conscience dictates.

 

[jari]

Thank you for your input, believe as your conscience dictates.

honestly i think there's good points why they werent christians while saying ananias was christian is nothing but assumption.