Deconstructed Christianity

B-A-C

B-A-C

Loyal
oxford.universitypressscholarship.com

The Deconstructed Church

"The Deconstructed Church" published on by Oxford University Press.
oxford.universitypressscholarship.com oxford.universitypressscholarship.com

Abstract​


The Emerging Church Movement (ECM) is a creative, entrepreneurial, religious movement that strives to achieve social legitimacy and spiritual vitality by actively disassociating from its roots in conservative, evangelical Christianity and “deconstructing” contemporary expressions of Christianity. Emerging Christians see themselves as overturning outdated interpretations of the bible, transforming hierarchical religious institutions, and reorientating Christianity outside the walls of church buildings toward working among and serving others in the “real world.” Drawing on ethnographic observations from emerging congregations, pub churches, neo-monastic communities, conferences, online networks, in-depth interviews, and congregational surveys in the US, UK, and Ireland, this book provides a comprehensive social scientific analysis of the development and significance of the ECM. Emerging Christians are shaping a distinct religious orientation that encourages individualism, deep relationships with others, new ideas around the nature of truth, doubt, and God, and innovations in preaching, worship, Eucharist, and leadership. More than other expressions of Christianity, the ECM simultaneously reacts against modernity while drawing on distinctly modern conceptions of self and community to produce a form of religiosity well-suited to our era.
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In other words, everything opposite on the Bible/Traditional Christianity. We do have a number of these people here on TJ.
 
2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
Shutterbug said:
People have been trying almost since Day One trying to fit God into their mental construct instead of trying to fit into His. There is no halo over my head.
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Exactly who are you referring to? Those who follow Scripture, or those who try to mix Jesus with the world?

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Br. Bear said:
the Pharisees and friends did that.... but missed the Author
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No, they didn't. If they followed Scripture, several things would have been different.

For starters, after the second temple was destroyed and the Jews returned to Israel after the dispersion, they would have at least built another Tabernacle, since Judaism was a source place religion requiring sacrifices. Instead, they started building Synagogues...they didn't follow what God told them through Moses, instead they went off and did their own thing (just like many do today who call themselves Christians - "Christ follower" - who don't really follow Christ).

Then another...if they really followed Scripture then they would have recognized the Messiah when He came the first time - instead, fearing the ramifications to their positions and power, they rejected Him.

That is only two...

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Greetings,

thank you for your reply,

Shaolin said:
No, they didn't. If they followed Scripture, several things would have been different.

For starters, after the second temple was destroyed and the Jews returned to Israel after the dispersion, they would have at least built another Tabernacle, since Judaism was a source place religion requiring sacrifices. Instead, they started building Synagogues...they didn't follow what God told them through Moses, instead they went off and did their own thing (just like many do today who call themselves Christians - "Christ follower" - who don't really follow Christ).

Then another...if they really followed Scripture then they would have recognized the Messiah when He came the first time - instead, fearing the ramifications to their positions and power, they rejected Him.

That is only two...

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People today become experts according to what they consider to be right.

Today we can so easily look back and cast a stone or two but one has to consider how we might behave if we were back in those days.
You might even find that they did follow Scripture, more than anyone else

perhaps they had translations they preferred and after all, they got to say what was the right way to read them and interpret them, most of them being very 'upright' people - law-keepers even.


Bless you ....><>
 
Br. Bear said:
Greetings,

thank you for your reply,

People today become experts according to what they consider to be right.
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True, and most of them consider what to be right according to their own biases, not according to what the Scriptures actually say...like those here who are 'so spiritually minded that they are no earthly good.'

Today we can so easily look back and cast a stone or two but one has to consider how we might behave if we were back in those days.
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The same can be said for today.

You might even find that they did follow Scripture, more than anyone else
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Nope. I have studied the Intertestimental Period and know exactly why they did what they did...have you?

perhaps they had translations they preferred and after all, they got to say what was the right way to read them and interpret them, most of them being very 'upright' people - law-keepers even.
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The only translation they had then was the Hebrew scrolls and the newly translated Greek copies. There were no numerous translations back the like we have now, and they all spoke both languages fluently...there would have been no wiggle room for false translations because they ALL knew both. Unlike today, where people claim this or that version is the best and NONE of them are fluent in any language the Scriptures were originally written in.

Being upright is in God's eyes, not ours. We can know what it means, but seldom do we find today someone who claims to be upright in his actions that actually is. Most of the time, such claimants in their own minds can't see past their own "heavenly minded" pride and arrogance. I have known a few.

The right way to read Scripture is through the Holy Spirit according to what it says, not according to our biases and other attitudes...not according to what we want it to say, not according to what power it might give us, and not according to a million other philosophies that people read them through. What did Jesus say about them that what you say above touches...

Matthew 23:23-28
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.
28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

His eyes see all...

..
 
Br. Bear said:
Today we can so easily look back and cast a stone or two but one has to consider how we might behave if we were back in those days.
You might even find that they did follow Scripture, more than anyone else
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Not really.

Matt 15:1; Then some Pharisees and scribes *came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,
Matt 15:2; "Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
Matt 15:3; And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Matt 15:5; "But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,"
Matt 15:6; he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
Matt 15:7; "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
Matt 15:8; 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Matt 15:9; 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"

The leaven of the Pharisees wasn't that they followed the law, it was that they didn't.

Mark 7:5; The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?"
Mark 7:6; And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Mark 7:7; 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
Mark 7:8; "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
Mark 7:10; "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
Mark 7:11; but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
Mark 7:12; you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

They set aside the commandments, to do their "traditions". Which had little (if anything) to do with the Bible.

Matt 23:13; "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Matt 23:14; ["Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]
Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Matt 23:16; "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.'

What did Jesus call the Pharisees?

Matt 12:34; "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
 
The ancient jews followed some laws "religiously" more than those non jews in the nations around them, or the secular jews that "also" lived in those times. But they didnt follow all the laws and the law givers tended to ignore the mercy and humbleness that God favored "in additiion to the law" to so be perfect, its the same failing we see in much of christendom today. People like to look down on the pharisees due to the tongue lashing they often got from Jesus. But often the same ppl are not that much different today.
 
B-A-C said:



In other words, everything opposite on the Bible/Traditional Christianity. We do have a number of these people here on TJ.
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Dear Brother,
It's been about 6 or more years since I've dealt or read up on the Emergent Church.
To a discerning believer it could easily set the ends of one's hair on fire it's so out of the norm with what Scripture says, yet deceptively so! So, the need for discernment.
If you were to do a search here on "Emergent" you'd probably find a few threads here on Talk Jesus that include it as a subject matter. I believe Sister Sue Love who you as an old timer might remember, did a thread or two on it as well. Goes hand in hand with Contemplative Spirituality, which appears to be an integration of Eastern Philosophies and Scripture. Needless to say, it also has ties into the New Age. I once had a chart that showed the ties between them all and they were so intertwined, authors, preachers, teachers, churches, etc. that I almost lost my mind trying to make sense of it all!!!

If anyone is interested in this area of study, let me know. I know of a couple of authors whose books I've read, that have written in part on the subject of the Emergent Church.

Thanks for sharing, Brother. A rather scary reminder of how deception can affect even the sincerest of individuals and why great care is necessary when looking to others besides God for the understanding of Scripture.

Hope all is well with you and yours Dear Brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Satan's number one “goal” is to cause “deception,” Jesus told us the main sign of the end of days is deception!

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and SHALL DECEIVE MANY.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, THEY SHALL DECEIVE THE VERY ELECT.

Jesus referred to many “trends” that would be happening in the last days, but the main “sign” would be deception! Deception will be so persuasive that if it was possible it could even deceive God's own elect! Of course, that is not possible when it comes to one's own salvation, but it could draw away some (fall away) who are not rooted, and grounded in love (not saved) to turn from the truth to believe something not true!

The Greek word for “deceive” is the word, “Planao” This is where we get our English word, “planet” What does the word planet have to do with deception?

Back in the biblical days, it was very common for people to gaze into the night skies and wonder in amazement at all the stars. They noticed that all the stars stayed in the same spot. Then they noticed a few stars that seemed to move across the sky. They did not have telescopes back then, so they did not know they were planets orbiting the sun, so they called them “wandering stars”

A person who has been deceived and deceives others is like a wandering star who is not holding to the basic elementary teaching of Christ, but has been moved to believe something else not true!

Speaking about “false teachers,” the scriptures said.....

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom, the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Those who "deconstruct" what they once believed is a simple manifestation that they were never truly saved.

1Jn 2:19 For even though they were once a part of us, they withdrew from us because they were never really of our number. For if they had truly belonged to us they would have continued with us. By leaving our community of believers they made it obvious that they never really belonged to us. (TPT)
 
B-A-C said:



In other words, everything opposite on the Bible/Traditional Christianity. We do have a number of these people here on TJ.
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Hello @B-A-C,

It is very easy to make judgments concerning people who say that they have left the various church denominations that exist within Christendom: but most will not have done so without very good reason. It is before God they stand, and He only has the right to judge them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
complete said:
Hello @B-A-C,

It is very easy to make judgments concerning people who say that they have left the various church denominations that exist within Christendom: but most will not have done so without very good reason. It is before God they stand, and He only has the right to judge them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chr
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B-A-C said:



In other words, everything opposite on the Bible/Traditional Christianity. We do have a number of these people here on TJ.
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May I ask; Who's Definition you are using as for "the Bible/Traditional Christianity" which one. and please give "reference" and post "Definition" for there are more than one, under the label you have given.

And I still do not understand why you posted a link to:

"Oxford Academic"​

===============================================================
Example, concerning; "the Bible/Traditional Christianity"

Christian tradition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org



=================================================================

Deconstructed Christianity | Talk Jesus​

https://www.talkjesus.com › ... › The Buzz › News Stand



In other words, everything opposite on the Bible/Traditional Christianity. We do have a number of these people here on TJ.:eyes:

People also search for​

is the bible fictionwhere was christianity founded
what do christians believethe first bible ever found

PS. You are going to be Famous!:sob:
 
PloughBoy said:
Who's Definition you are using as for "the Bible/Traditional Christianity" which one. and please give "reference" and post "Definition" for there are more than one
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No, there is only one. Those who follow the Bible 100%, and those who don't. The original church didn't have denominations. They just followed the teachings of Jesus.

PloughBoy said:
And I still do not understand why you posted a link to:

"Oxford Academic"​

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It wasn't because they were "traditional", it was because they aren't. The article was just a good example of what deconstructed Christianity is. If you have a better/different article, you are certainly welcome to post it here.

PloughBoy said:
is the bible fictionwhere was christianity founded
what do christians believethe first bible ever found
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Certainly the original church/Christians did not consider the Bible to be fiction. If they did, there would not be Christianity, because no one believed in it from the beginning.

PloughBoy said:
what do christians believethe first bible ever found
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en.wikipedia.org

Codex Sinaiticus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The is the earliest "complete" example of the Bible as we know it today. It's from the 4th century. I've read all the claims about how the Bible how changed over the years, but every time a group of
scholars compares modern Bibles with the oldest known Bibles, they are amazed how accurate they are. The Codex Sinaiticus is considered the be the standard because it's the oldest.

There are also the dead sea scrolls.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Which of course, we don't have all the books, and many of the books we do have aren't complete. But of what we do have so far, all of it matches modern translations 100%.
What that means is, if the Bible was really changed.. it was changed before the 1st Century ended. If the Bible can't be trusted, then what do we build our doctrine and faith on?

www.nationalgeographic.com

Medieval Christian Book Discovered in Ireland Bog

A remarkably well-preserved, thousand-year-old Book of Psalms has been discovered by a construction worker in an Irish bog, a find archaeologists call "staggering."
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com

Now of course some "Christian" denominations ( there is a reason I put the word Christian in quotes here ) had added their own sources of doctrine. The Book of Mormon and the WatchTower
come to mind. They say these are more accurate than the Bible, and yet for something that is so accurate... the book of Mormon is in it's 31st revision. Hmmmm.

You asked what my definition of traditional Christianity is... simply those who were closest to what the first churches and Christians believed and did.
Mormonism didn't exist until the 1820's. There is no way it can be traditional, simply because it hasn't been around long enough to be a tradition for multiple generations.
The same with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are a relatively new denomination as well.

So where do we draw the line by date? I don't have a specific date. But as a rule, churches from within 100 years or so of the reformation ( 1520's) would qualify.
But these days we have to qualify that even further. For example, some Lutheran, Methodist, and Anglican churches have split up in the last generation because they have left
their original believes and charters. 100 years ago, all three of these denominations were against homosexuality, pro-choice, transgenderism, and ecumenism.
Now parts of these denominations embrace these things. So because they have changed from their original beliefs, they also don't qualify as "traditional".
 
complete said:
It is before God they stand, and He only has the right to judge them.
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That isn't what the Bible says.

1Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
1Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:16; "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Matt 18:17; "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
 
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