Davids Sin

[B-A-C]

A Christian cannot wonder away from God Heb 13:5-6.

That verse doesn't say a Christian can't wander away from God. It says God won't wander away from them. That verse is an old testament quote of

Deut 31:6; "Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you."

But even though God didn't forsake them....

Deut 32:15; "But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Jdgs 2:12; and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jdgs 2:13; So they forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtaroth.
Jdgs 10:6; Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him.
1 Kin 9:9; "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the LORD has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2 Kin 21:22; So he forsook the LORD, the God of his fathers, and did not walk in the way of the LORD.
Jer 22:9; "Then they will answer, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.'"

There were dozens of people who forsook the Lord. In fact 23,000 in one day.

Neh 9:15; "You provided bread from heaven for them for their hunger, You brought forth water from a rock for them for their thirst, And You told them to enter in order to possess The land which You swore to give them.
Neh 9:16; "But they, our fathers, acted arrogantly; They became stubborn and would not listen to Your commandments.
Neh 9:17; "They refused to listen, And did not remember Your wondrous deeds which You had performed among them; So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But You are a God of forgiveness, Gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness; And You did not forsake them.
Neh 9:18; "Even when they made for themselves A calf of molten metal And said, 'This is your God Who brought you up from Egypt,' And committed great blasphemies,

Neh 9:20; "You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth, And You gave them water for their thirst.
Neh 9:21; "Indeed, forty years You provided for them in the wilderness and they were not in want; Their clothes did not wear out, nor did their feet swell.

God gave them water, manna, and clothes that didn't wear out... He covered them with a cloud during the day, and gave them light at night... He didn't leave them or forsake them.
But they certainly forsook Him.

Neh 9:26; "But they became disobedient and rebelled against You, And cast Your law behind their backs And killed Your prophets who had admonished them So that they might return to You, And they committed great blasphemies.
Neh 9:31; "Nevertheless, in Your great compassion You did not make an end of them or forsake them, For You are a gracious and compassionate God.

God was with them all the way to Canaan. But even so....

Heb 3:7; Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
Heb 3:8; DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
Heb 3:9; WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
Heb 3:10; "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
Heb 3:11; AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

Heb 3:12; Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Heb 3:13; But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 3:16; For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19; So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Even though God was with them, He didn't leave them or forsake them. Still in the end, they were not allowed to enter into the promised land because they forsook Him.

Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

So just because God never leaves or forsake you, is no guarantee that you won't leave or forsake Him.
In fact, because He IS with you, you have no excuses for blaming the circumstances of life on your disobedience.

1 Cor 10:1; For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1 Cor 10:2; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Cor 10:3; and all ate the same spiritual food;
1 Cor 10:4; and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
1 Cor 10:5; Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
1 Cor 10:6; Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
1 Cor 10:7; Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
1 Cor 10:8; Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.

Just because you've been baptized and partaken of the spiritual water (which is Christ) doesn't mean it's a done deal.

 

[KingJ]

That verse doesn't say a Christian can't wander away from God. It says God won't wander away from them. That verse is an old testament quote of

Deut 31:6; "Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you."

But even though God didn't forsake them....

Deut 32:15; "But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Jdgs 2:12; and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jdgs 2:13; So they forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtaroth.
Jdgs 10:6; Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him.
1 Kin 9:9; "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the LORD has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2 Kin 21:22; So he forsook the LORD, the God of his fathers, and did not walk in the way of the LORD.
Jer 22:9; "Then they will answer, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.'"

There were dozens of people who forsook the Lord. In fact 23,000 in one day.

Neh 9:15; "You provided bread from heaven for them for their hunger, You brought forth water from a rock for them for their thirst, And You told them to enter in order to possess The land which You swore to give them.
Neh 9:16; "But they, our fathers, acted arrogantly; They became stubborn and would not listen to Your commandments.
Neh 9:17; "They refused to listen, And did not remember Your wondrous deeds which You had performed among them; So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But You are a God of forgiveness, Gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness; And You did not forsake them.
Neh 9:18; "Even when they made for themselves A calf of molten metal And said, 'This is your God Who brought you up from Egypt,' And committed great blasphemies,

Neh 9:20; "You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth, And You gave them water for their thirst.
Neh 9:21; "Indeed, forty years You provided for them in the wilderness and they were not in want; Their clothes did not wear out, nor did their feet swell.

God gave them water, manna, and clothes that didn't wear out... He covered them with a cloud during the day, and gave them light at night... He didn't leave them or forsake them.
But they certainly forsook Him.

Neh 9:26; "But they became disobedient and rebelled against You, And cast Your law behind their backs And killed Your prophets who had admonished them So that they might return to You, And they committed great blasphemies.
Neh 9:31; "Nevertheless, in Your great compassion You did not make an end of them or forsake them, For You are a gracious and compassionate God.

God was with them all the way to Canaan. But even so....

Jews could leave God, yes. Please re-read my posts here.

Heb 3:7; Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
Heb 3:8; DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
Heb 3:9; WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
Heb 3:10; "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
Heb 3:11; AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

Heb 3:12; Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Heb 3:13; But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 3:16; For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19; So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Even though God was with them, He didn't leave them or forsake them. Still in the end, they were not allowed to enter into the promised land because they forsook Him.

Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

So just because God never leaves or forsake you, is no guarantee that you won't leave or forsake Him.
In fact, because He IS with you, you have no excuses for blaming the circumstances of life on your disobedience.

1 Cor 10:1; For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1 Cor 10:2; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Cor 10:3; and all ate the same spiritual food;
1 Cor 10:4; and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
1 Cor 10:5; Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
1 Cor 10:6; Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
1 Cor 10:7; Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
1 Cor 10:8; Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.

Just because you've been baptized and partaken of the spiritual water (which is Christ) doesn't mean it's a done deal.

You are mixing those who only ''call'' Jesus Lord / those who warm the seats at church with those who are sold out to Jesus / are born again. Mixing Matt 7:22 type Christians with Matt 16:24 Christians. Why?

God is not a fool who grafts a devil into His family. You believe He is?

That verse doesn't say a Christian can't wander away from God. It says God won't wander away from them

Yes it does. ''He will never leave nor forsake you''. This applies 100% to us more then anyone else. We ''are'' children of God. We ''are'' in His family. We ''are'' grafted into the vine.

Now, if you were God, would you ever file a missing children's report? I think not.

 

[Sue D.]

@King J. -- as per Adam and Eve -- Genesis 1: 26 -- God's / trinity / deciding to create man in our image. He then blessed them both male and female and told them to be fruitful and multiply. Then chapter 2 goes into more detail in verse 7 about forming man from the dust of the earth and breathed life into him and he became a living person. And he was put in the garden that God was also creating. Then vs 18 God decides that man needs a helper fit for him. vs 21 is when Eve comes into existence when God takes one of Adams ribs and creates her. and then God creates the institution of marriage in vs 24.
And then chapter 3 gives even More detail -- God is referring to the man as Adam in vs 17 and in vs 20 Adam calls the woman Eve because she was the mother of all living. Backing up to vs 23 in chapter 2 -- ' she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ah, the Ezekial 28 passage is speaking of Lucifer having been the most beautiful angel -- angels are in a different realm of existence -- they Did go back and forth from heaven to earth.
Angels were created at some point before mankind. Totally Different realms of creation.

It's totally amazing how you build your personal beliefs from verses here and there -- and it's true that those verses Are part of Scripture and apparently you are a King James person -- but please that does Not give you or Anyone license to build beliefs out of verses picked at 'random'. Maybe that's sounding a bit harsh -- sorry.

Genesis 15:16 "And they shall come back here in the forth generation , for the iniquity of the Amorities is not yet complete." in other words, that group of people would still be around. Just predicting what would be happening in the future. People groups come and go in activity.

Sodom and Gohmorrah -- their sin was homosexuality -- God chose to keep giving them a chance. before destroying them. God is long-suffering towards All of us. Great patience with us. But after a while He Did destroy them.

Sounds like you don't like the Jews very much.

King J. -- the Only time / place that a person can make themselves right with God is Before the person dies. Salvation is for here and now -- no one can make it right with God later on. That concept sounds like purgatory which is Not Scriptural. Once a person Dies, they are in eternity -- no second chances to 'make it right'.

ALL believers -- Jews / Greeks -- upon each person's salvation -- are the Bride of Christ.


King J -- a person becomes a Christian by accepting Jesus Christ as his/ her personal Savior. A person needs to acknowledge their need For salvation. That Christ has already done on the cross all that is necessary For salvation. No 'good works' on our part is needed. Belief in our heart and confession by our mouth. And then the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person. We are to be growing spiritually. Reading God's Word and talking with Him / prayer. Having fellowship with other believers frequently.

That is what Scripture tells us.

 

[Sue D.]

God has a plan for each person's life. Some will be a janitor in a church or school or where ever. And some will be called to be missionaries in a foreign country and do wonderful work starting hospitals in various countries and leading many to the Lord in that capacity. Which means that no matter Where a person is led in their Christian life -- we can be / should be / witnessing to others around us. God's love and Most of all -- sharing the Gospel unto Salvation. Because there is either eternal New Jerusalem or the lake of fire and brimstone in everyone's future.

For God so loved the World that He gave His Son for us. Without His Son, death, burial and bodily resurrection -- there would be no heaven for Anyone.

the world includes Everyone.

 

[KingJ]

Genesis 15:16 "And they shall come back here in the forth generation , for the iniquity of the Amorities is not yet complete." in other words, that group of people would still be around. Just predicting what would be happening in the future. People groups come and go in activity.

That verse quite plainly says '''their sin was not yet full measure''. What is so hard to understand about that? Please read this link if you still uncertain. What does it mean that “the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure” (Genesis 15:16)?

Sodom and Gohmorrah -- their sin was homosexuality -- God chose to keep giving them a chance. before destroying them. God is long-suffering towards All of us. Great patience with us. But after a while He Did destroy them.

Why after a while did He destroy them?

Sounds like you don't like the Jews very much.

What line from my post prompted you to say this?

King J. -- the Only time / place that a person can make themselves right with God is Before the person dies. Salvation is for here and now -- no one can make it right with God later on. That concept sounds like purgatory which is Not Scriptural. Once a person Dies, they are in eternity -- no second chances to 'make it right'.

What line from my post prompted you to say this?

ALL believers -- Jews / Greeks -- upon each person's salvation -- are the Bride of Christ.

What line from my post prompted you to say this?

King J -- a person becomes a Christian by accepting Jesus Christ as his/ her personal Savior. A person needs to acknowledge their need For salvation. That Christ has already done on the cross all that is necessary For salvation. No 'good works' on our part is needed. Belief in our heart and confession by our mouth. And then the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person. We are to be growing spiritually. Reading God's Word and talking with Him / prayer. Having fellowship with other believers frequently.

''Belief in our heart and confession by our mouth''' is what comes after Matt 16:24, Psalm 51:17 type dedication. You have the cart before the horse. A belief / faith in Jesus being Lord has to be given 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. It is only given if we, the whomsoever will, are prepared to make Him Lord of our lives.

 

[KingJ]

God has a plan for each person's life.

Yes, to be saved. Outside of that, do you have a scripture? I only see a scripture that says the steps of the righteous are lead by the Lord Psalm 37:23

Some will be a janitor in a church or school or where ever. And some will be called to be missionaries in a foreign country and do wonderful work starting hospitals in various countries and leading many to the Lord in that capacity. Which means that no matter Where a person is led in their Christian life -- we can be / should be / witnessing to others around us. God's love and Most of all -- sharing the Gospel unto Salvation.

Calvinistic teaching. Only those who want to be called, will be called. God does not force anyone to do anything.

Because there is either eternal New Jerusalem or the lake of fire and brimstone in everyone's future.

For God so loved the World that He gave His Son for us. Without His Son, death, burial and bodily resurrection -- there would be no heaven for Anyone.
the world includes Everyone.

Agreed. How do you believe this and then also make your Calvinistic lines?

I pray God shows you where you are not properly explaining yourself. I can see you mean well.

 

[KingJ]

That verse doesn't say a Christian can't wander away from God. It says God won't wander away from them.

You are not grasping the ''I will not forsake you''.

Forsake = Renounce or give up

Once we are His, He will never leave, give up or renounce us.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, to be saved. Outside of that, do you have a scripture? I only see a scripture that says the steps of the righteous are lead by the Lord Psalm 37:23


Calvinistic teaching. Only those who want to be called, will be called. God does not force anyone to do anything.


Agreed. How do you believe this and then also make your Calvinistic lines?

I pray God shows you where you are not properly explaining yourself. I can see you mean well.

And I really wish that you would leave Calvin out of this.

Nobody Wants to be 'called' -- because all of us are natural born Sinners. The Holy Spirit 'woos' us to Himself. Sometimes more dramatically than others. Saul of Tarsus would be one example. God turned his life around dramatically. But there's Always the inner change in the believer.

And the spiritual gifts that are given by the Holy Spirit is one evidence of His plan for each of us being different. And we can observe in others how God has led in their lives. None of us lives a 'perfect' life free of problems. And sometimes people Seem to be okay on the outside, but are fighting inner 'stuff' that others can't see.

I'm So glad that you can see I'm meaning well.

I do not use Calvinistic lines. I use Scripture -- now if You associate that with Calvin then that is Your 'thing' not mine.

Why bother with Calvinism?! It just messes with you when you're reading God's Word.