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Cross or stake ?

rizen1

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Feb 22, 2007
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Cross or Stake?


The English word cross is used to translate the original Greek word, transliterated as stauros, which actually means post or stake. The literal meaning of the original New Testament word has led some to believe that Jesus Christ was actually crucified on a stake, not a cross. This would mean that His arms would have been fastened directly overhead, rather than outward as traditionally believed.

Although either could be right without in any way affecting the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified, a little study of history reveals the facts. To save the time and repetitive work that would result if done individually each time, the Romans (see Ancient Empires - Rome) often had the very heavy and cumbersome upright post/stake already in place, and it was the cross-section that is described as being carried to the site with Jesus. Once there, our Savior was nailed to the horizontal beam which was then lifted up and fastened to the upright stake, thereby forming the cross - the symbol of our Savior's Sacrifice.

Types Of Crosses

There are 4 types of crosses that are known to have been used for crucifixions in the ancient world (apart from that used by, for example, the Assyrians, who impaled the victim on an upright post - something that we know did not happen to Jesus Christ):


View attachment 230 (click photo for larger view )

The "Latin Cross," or crux immissa, is the traditional cross that is most often portrayed in illustrations and in "crucifixes." It was generally assumed that because a sign was nailed to the post above Jesus (John 19:19), there must have been a section of upright post above the horizontal beam.


The "St. Anthony's Cross," or crux commissa, was actually the most commonly-used cross used by the Romans for crucifixions. The upright post, which was notched at the top, was already in place. The executed man was tied or nailed to the cross-section, which was then simply lifted up and set into the notch at the top of the upright post. From an engineering point of view, as a reader pointed out to me (thank you Bruce), this was probably the most quickly and easily assembled - and also the strongest, because the weight of the condemned man was drawing down directly into the notch, where it couldn't go anywhere, unlike the traditional cross that had the cross section fastened to the side of the post, which could much more easily pull away. And, since the condemned man hung down below the level of the horizontal beam, there was still plenty of room for a sign to be nailed above his head.

The "Greek Cross" had equal-length vertical and horizontal sections.

The "Saint Andrew's Cross," or crux decussata, was shaped like the letter X, with the two bottom legs set into the ground.

Fact Finder: What did Jesus Christ figuratively say about the cross in each of our daily lives?


Luke 9:23-24


23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,[a] and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.


by Wayne Blank
 
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Why should we make a deal out of what He was crucified on,
J.W. would love this.
He was crucified for us, and gave His lifes blood, to cover our sinfull, shamefull ways, who would die for me, no-one no-one but Jesus.

Lets just be grateful Rizen He did it, what a Saviour.
 
Why should we make a deal out of what He was crucified on,
J.W. would love this.
He was crucified for us, and gave His lifes blood, to cover our sinfull, shamefull ways, who would die for me, no-one no-one but Jesus.

Lets just be grateful Rizen He did it, what a Saviour.

No one is making a big deal if you read above the author said

Although either could be right without in any way affecting the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified

I also made that statement bold to prevent anyone from taking this the wrong way or thinking this was a debate.

Nothing is wrong with educating ourselves, rather than just accepting what was passed down to us. But like the author said whatever anyone believes " cross or stake ", in no way does it steal what his blood did for us.

I found the article very interesting and decided to share. Its not to change anyone's opinions.

Just something to think about it.
 
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yes, Rizen1 appreciate that too, it's just I went through so much when one of my sons was married to a J.W. he would actually come and through this stuff at me, I praise the Lord that's over, it just racked up some bad images in my past experiences, and I was glad to be rid of them.

Didn't mean to be upsetting to you.
Forgive me if you thought that, I know it's good to find out more, we'll never know enough this side of heaven.
 
its ok...I don't think there should be any debate among Christians.
Now if one group is saying he never rosed on the 3rd day, then we'll have problems.

God bless
 
God forbid that.

Up from the grave He arose
with a mighty triumph o're His foes
He arose a victor from the dark domain
and He lives forever with the saints to reign.
 
God forbid that.

Up from the grave He arose
with a mighty triumph o're His foes
He arose a victor from the dark domain
and He lives forever with the saints to reign.

Amen...it saddens me when people can't see how much he loves them.
 
oh tell me about it Rizen1
my husband hears His love told week after week and still
sits in his sin.
I often wonder, what sort of heart can do that.
 
The devil has him well fooled.
The sooner he realizes it the better for his soul.

I know Jesus knows the reason as to why he's not been touched as yet with the Holy Spirit, how I'd love to know but never will.

My thoughts are that he's waiting on 'a word' personally from the Lord, a voice or some experience, but i've been reading on just that, people waiting or demanding that God speak personally to them, before they'll come, and it's blasphemey against God, and He won't be swayed by there wants.

It was while reading about Lazarus and the Rich man, the way he wanted Lazerus to be set back down to his brothers and it was refused.
As they have Moses and the Prophets still to listen to, and they will not believe even if one returns from the dead.
Sure Jesus Himself arose, praise Him, and still there was unbelief.
 
I know it seems irrelevant to discuss upon what Jesus was crucified on since in the end what he did outshines everything, but sometimes you just want to research it and just know.. And that's what I did.

I know that JWs strongly believe that Jesus was buried on a stake and so I decided to look for evidence pointing to the fact that Jesus was indeed crucified on a cross.

Here's what I found online .

-So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." (John 20:25)
[NOTE: plural 'nails' and 'marks' requires a cross, not a stake]

-Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
[NOTE: sign is OVER HIS HEAD, not hands]

So that's what I got.. I though the JWs bible would have these verses written differently as they do others, but no. It's all the same wording and significance...
 
You can have nails put into a stake too and also, let’s not forget these scriptures.

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Right from the very beginning, man (Adam & Eve) sinned against God and disobeyed God's instruction. So man (us) than became a curse because of our own disobedience.

Jesus needed to become a curse to uplift that curse.

The main problem with words such as these and in fact many others, is the interpretation, which was given to us, from the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts into English and into other languages. Some words of today, meant something completely different to when Jesus was around, and when he walked the earth. So one needs to go back into history to find out the proper meaning of such words.

The whole Bible is the truth, it's mans interpretation which is wrong, which causes endless fights and disagreements, amongst the body of believers. One should not take man's word for it, one should do their own studies. And this will take time, but we will get there. Slowly, but surely, the truth will come out if we persevere with it.

The biggest fear man has, is being alone, and not being part of a huge crowd of followers. So one normally follows the majority of followers, as most feel safe in numbers than being alone and in the minority.

There was a lot of pagan traditions brought into man church system, which was brought down from Constantine's time and before. And God's true believers were in the minority, and were killed and beheaded for their belief and teachings.

These pagan traditions were bought into man's church and appeared as an Angel of light, and most are still unaware of it. Most see no harm in it, by saying, "God knows our heart" but by saying that, we are actually saying we know more than God and we are better than God and we will worship God Almighty in our way.

The easiest way to find out the truth, is to follow in the same footsteps and ways, as our Lord Jesus. Do as Jesus did, walk as Jesus walked, talk as Jesus talked.

We need to find out, the true meaning of the word "cross" back in the days of Jesus' time.

I have just found something very interesting, which I will put up here later. But first I want to go through it.
 
Apparently the lamb of the Passover in its preparation was traditionally stretched along a cross of wood and then slain. I know it doesn't serve as any kind of absolute proof, but isn't it wonderful how consistent the divine revelation is?
 
It's not what you see, it's what you don't see and it's the shedding of his blood which is most important, and accepting him as your Lord and saviour, and beleiving in your whole heart that God raised him from the dead.

There are times when I feel so close to God it's wonderful, and I don't want to leave, and then there are times when I struggle, and those times of struggles, is when my heart is totally in the wrong place, and I become self centered instead of God centered.

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
 
I know that JWs strongly believe that Jesus was buried on a stake and so I decided to look for evidence pointing to the fact that Jesus was indeed crucified on a cross.

No they don't, they believe he was hung and crucified on a stake, not buried? And they also believe Jesus was raised in his incorruptable body. And they also believe in the blood of Jesus for their sins.
 
Word of life
you said many interesting things there, in the long post.

I am looking forward to reading what you have also come across when you have studied it for yourself.

J.W.'s also believe though that Jesus was an angel, they will not allow Him His deity, that He is God.

The blood is the most precious covering and it holds the power of Salvation to us as unworthy sinners. We must be covered in His blood to be cleansed before God.
 
Word of life
not finished yet in your study of the rest of the information?
I'm busting to read it.
 
No they don't, they believe he was hung and crucified on a stake, not buried? And they also believe Jesus was raised in his incorruptable body. And they also believe in the blood of Jesus for their sins.

Oh wow. My bad.. I didn't mean to put buried. Please forgive me. Wow..
 
Word of life
not finished yet in your study of the rest of the information?
I'm busting to read it.

When I have gone through things properly, against the scriptures I will post it and not before.

Though the main issue here is, each and everyone of us should focus on just the crucifixion. That's the most important. The devil has caused big divisions amongst our brothers and sisters in Christ, due to one saying it being a cross and others saying it being a stake.

For example, let's take the word "Cross" It has many meanings:

  1. I cross the river via the bridge.
  2. I am cross with you
  3. I carry a cross
  4. The cross on the paper is a symbol

Now what's the meanings of all these crosses. There are many meanings to all of them? One can't just look at one meaning and say they have the answer, one needs to read each and every scripture or sentence and find out the true meaning what Jesus was saying "in his time, when he walked this earth". And one has to remember, that the culture of that time, was totally different than what it is in today's modern world.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Now what does the word "cross" mean in this verse. Did he literally mean, not to pick up "a cross" or does it mean something else.

Oh wow. My bad.. I didn't mean to put buried. Please forgive me. Wow..

lol, Yes, you are forgiven, but look what happened here, you put in one extra word in there by accident, and that whole sentence meant something completely different.

I know it wasn't done deliberately, but someone else who comes along, who doesn't know the bible that well or teachings of other believers, will just except your words as truth.

You see how dangerous that is. Certain people get a name from themselves, due to some wording/typing errors of man, by putting in extra words by mistake. Most people do not check to see if people are speaking the truth. Nor do they check the scriptures to see if they are actually going according to God's words. Some just except it in faith and believe that person is telling and saying the truth to them. I have done this many times, and fell short.

The JW's have some very good teachings, but like all of us they have some errors too. But us, as human beings, we are way too quick to point out the errors of others, but one soon forgets our own and just expects to be forgiven.

J.W.'s also believe though that Jesus was an angel, they will not allow Him His deity, that He is God.

Yes I know. They believe that that the arch angel Michael is Jesus. But do you know how they come to that conclusion and understanding, has one gone in and checked the scriptures, to see why other believers see these things the way they do. Well I did, and I can see there reasoning.

There's not many scriptures which speak about Michael, so it wasn't too difficult to see what they see.

This is something to think on, I am not saying this is truth, I am just going to show you something:

Who defeated the devil? The bible tells us that Jesus defeated the devil? So lets look at these scriptures.

Revelation 12:7 And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war,
Revelation 12:8 but he did not have the strength to win, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the ancient serpent, the one who is called the devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole inhabited earth – he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers was thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life up to death.


Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
 
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