I didn’t overlook anything and claiming that I’ve disregarded the Word of God simply by quoting scripture is both incorrect and disingenuous on your part. I understand your position clearly, and without ambiguity because it is not a difficult position to have. The Word speaks for itself, but when faced with humanity's decision-making challenges, you rely on scriptures that naturally support your viewpoint, without contradicting what is being presented according to the Word of God. If you can't or are unable to consider all of Scripture, then you will always be at fault in the doctrine that you set forth as truth.
Hello Christ4Ever,
God makes everything wonderful!
Context is the structure built upon the foundation of grammar and semantics. A semantical word supplies a concept.
When a person changes a word originally supplied by an author, then context can be changed resulting in a different, non-authoritative context from the original author.
You committed such an infraction in your opening sentence of your post with the word "
overlook" with which you replaced the phrase "lopped off".
The word "severed" functions as a appropriate replacement for "lopped off", but your word "
overlook" changed the context into something that I, the author by God's grace, did not indicate.
I believe that you see but you do not understand (
Matthew 13:13) the following shows the Word of God that you lopped off:
You literally just chopped off the Word of God detailing God's will:
I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me
(
John 5:30)
I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do
(
John 17:4).
I have given you an example
(
John 13:15).
In stark contrast to Christ's words of "
I can do nothing on My own initiative", you say you do choose God in your own initiative/will.
You broke context as shown above, and you break context in the Word of God by adding free-will where free-will does not exist; therefore, your own words "
If you can't or are unable to consider all of Scripture, then you will always be at fault in the doctrine that you set forth as truth" apply to you.
This is your first unwarranted mission of malevolence toward me in your post.
That which you do to me - adulterating context - you do to my Master Jesus, and this fact proves to be true throughout your writings.
Foolishness on your part to even state that, when it is you who have the caveat to the 1st pt., when you won't allow yourself to even consider how foreknowledge allows for free-will to exist.
Free-will for you means that man's sovereignty negates God's Sovereignty; in other words, God's foreknowledge of a person's salvation is not a guarantee of that person's salvation according to your Free-willian Philosophy because that person holds the free-will ability to override God's foreknowledge for the person to choose against God.
Your foolishness is exposed:
You do have a caveat to the first point of "the Sovereignty of the good God" which is your own sovereignty of man by way of your man's free-will.
I bolded the only part you quoted. This is why context is important to have. You failed to answer my question with the caveats, which is true as true can be with your #2 pt. in mind. Especially if one considers your point that only God's Will exists, without taking into account foreknowledge for man's decision-making prior to the fall.
You always revert to your previous comment because you can't entertain the possibility that free will exists because of God's foreknowledge. That's your issue to reconcile, not mine.
You recycle your faulty "
free will exists because of God's foreknowledge" from point 1 into point 2 of "man is evil (evil Adam disobeyed God's only commandment with a punishment)".
There are no caveats for point 2 because the Word of God declares “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18).
You inject free-will context where free-will context exists not in the the Word of God.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31
Not just good, but very good! However, we know that Adam/the man did not remain so. Why did he not remain "very good"? This is why again I caution that you use text, context, greater context. Without it, yes Mark 10:18 stands, but it speaks to the nuance of what Jesus was talking about to the man who Jesus was talking to specifically and the entirety of God's Creation prior to the corruption/fall! And you accuse me of "...lopping off the Word of God..."!
Otherwise, you are saying exactly what I presented to you in #2 pt. "Did God make man evil? You must believe God made Adam evil or with the possibility of committing evil in order for it to be so." So, which one is it? Even considering the 1st Adam/flesh! Also, again unless you are saying by quoting 1 Corinthians 15:45-50 that the flesh God created the 1st Adam in at the very beginning, was corrupted and not good! Is that how you are reading that???
You are quick to dismiss “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18), so see how you decimate Holy Scripture context.
A very good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Because, a very good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (
Genesis 2:16-17).
With the very good way being God's Way (
John 14:6).
Yet, “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18).
And, it is written "
God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (
Genesis 1:31).
Note, in "
it was very good", the word "
it" is grammatically a third person singular thus referring to the entirety of creation being constructed well (good) on course with God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world (
Ephesians 1:1-14,
Ephesians 2:13).
Yet, the word "
it" is not third person plural in "
it was very good" as in "they were very good" of which a third person plural is required in order to refer to an individual such as Adam or the Devil the Serpent.
And, the Word of God specifically excludes Adam from being good with “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18).
So, the spirit of antichrist preaches that Adam with all mankind as good for any amount of time thus nullifying the need for the Savior.
Behold, that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "
all" that He had made, that
it was very good.
But, God did not specify how the aggregate, the "
all" that He had made,
was very good therein.
And, God did not specify any specific creatures of God's creation as being
very good therein.
And, God creating "
all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is
very good.
So, with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is
very good.
In other words, if Adam was very good, then he could not have eaten from the tree the knowledge of good and evil.
Because it would have been impossible for a very good Adam to disobey God's command of not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Since a very good Adam would have been the embodiment of obedience of God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
And, a very good Adam would have unquestionably refrained from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil without him even having knowledge of good and evil (
Genesis 3:22)
Therefore, Free-willian Philosophy holds that a very good Adam did the opposite of very good by eating of the tree the knowledge of good and evil (
Genesis 3:6).
Yet, a very good Adam would have unavoidably avoided eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
But, there is none righteous, not one (
Psalm 143:2,
Romans 3:10).
And, there is none who does good, there is not even one (
Psalm 53:3,
Romans 3:12).
So, there was no very good Adam, just an evil Adam with evil descendants except for Christ alone and persons of Christ's choosing.
You demolish context and defy the Word of God “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18).
Then answer me this: What does God's foreknowledge allow for and does it negate free will or not?
I'm sad for you accusing me of something I have not done. It shouldn't be so, but I guess that is how you roll.
Since point 3, "the loving God redeems man by Christ's finished atonement", remains valid, then you continue to convert "Christ's finished atonement" into "Christ's failure atonement" just as outlined in the opening post.
You wrote "
I'm sad for you accusing me of something I have not done", but you add free-will into the Word of God in your very next section.
The concept of free will is supported by the belief that, even though God knows the future, foreknowledge, people are still responsible for their choices and decisions. Bible shows instances of this very thing.
And there you have it, you added your free-will ability to choose God to the Word of God.
Since the Word of God doesn't say "choose Me", then you add "choose Me" to the Word of God according to your writings despite the fact the Word of God, “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16) and “
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes atonement), has been posted directly to you in this thread.
The only way for you to acheive free-will is for you to add to the Word of God, and it is written "
do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (
Proverbs 30:6).
lol - 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
No free-will in 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, so you miss, again.
So, made & cause are the same, but choose & decide are not?
Hold on, Christ4Ever, your question appears to me as you trying to evade the point that you had posted "
I don't ever see where any of the Apostles ever stated it in that way" (proof
post #130) to which God caused me to respond with:
So, that which you
don't ever see exists in the Apostle's testimony.
Your question does not address that "
the Apostles" "
stated it in that way".
Nope, just trying to show you cause and effect.
Hi Christ4Ever,
Your lopping off the Word of God detailing God's will is astonishing:
I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me
(
John 5:30)
I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do
(
John 17:4).
I have given you an example
(
John 13:15).
In stark contrast to Christ's words of "
I can do nothing on My own initiative", you say you do choose God in your own initiative/will.
You just blew right past all of this, again, with:
You do not consider the entirety of the Word of God.
Christ's love controls me (
2 Corinthians 5:14) to consider the entirety of the Word of God.
You do have a caveat to the first point of "the Sovereignty of the good God" which is your own sovereignty of man by way of your man's free-will.
Only for you to inject free-will where free-will does not exist in the the Word of God.
There are no caveats for point 2 because the Word of God declares “
no one is good except God alone” (
Mark 10:18); therefore, "man is evil (evil Adam disobeyed God's only commandment with a punishment)" just as point 2 established.
Adam was evil
before he disobeyed God by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil while he was moving his hand holding his bite toward his mouth before his bite even touched his lips (
Genesis 3:6). God created Adam (
Genesis 2:7).
God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is
very good (
Ephesians 1:1-14,
Ephesians 2:13,
Genesis 1:31).
Adam was made in the image and likeness of God (
Genesis 1:26), so Adam glorified himself in a manner like God glorifies Himself, but, in Christ, we Christians glorify God just like our Leader Christ!
Every person starts out like the
flesh first man Adam, but, according to God's good will choice, God births man anew bearing the image of the
heavenly second man Lord Jesus Christ (
1 Corinthians 15:45-50)!
You wrote "A gift unopened is wasted" about point 3, "the loving God redeems man by Christ's finished atonement", so you converted "Christ's finished atonement" into "Christ's failure atonement" just as outlined in the opening post.
The gift of Christ is received by us Christians, not by evil man free-will choosing God, but by the Sovereign God's choosing of man.
No.
Since the Word of God doesn't say "choose Me", then you add "choose Me" to the Word of God because you wrote "It doesn't have to when it is evident that man must have it to make decisions" despite the fact the Word of God, “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16) and “
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes atonement), has been posted directly to you in this thread.
The only way for you to acheive free-will is for you to add to the Word of God, and it is written "
do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (
Proverbs 30:6).
You cannot avoid events which God foreknows; therefore, you do not have free-will.
Christ4Ever, are you just being obtuse because you are captive to your free-will?
In Christ, I obey the commandments of the Lord, and the Lord is clear "
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (
Matthew 28:19-20)!
I believe the Word of God "
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it" (
Isaiah 55:11).
You had posted "I don't ever see where any of the Apostles ever stated it in that way" (proof
post #130) to which God caused me to respond with:
Christ's love controls us Christians (
2 Corinthians 5:14). The Apostle Paul wrote profound Truth (
John 14:6), here!
So, that which you don't ever see exists in the Apostle's testimony.
My Lord Jesus Christ alerts me and every Christian "
Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" (
Matthew 26:41).
So, it still remains that you are trying to have free-will both ways regarding Peter's denial of Christ. Christ foreknew the unavoidable event of Peter's denial of Christ, yet Peter denied Christ in Peter's flesh.
If I err, then it's my flesh; however, when I convey Truth (
John 14:6), then it's fruit of the Spirit (
John 3:21).
The fact remains, Christ4Ever, you wrote "
He knew what Peter would do, even though Peter said he would not" (proof
post #130), so you convey it wasn’t Peter's free-will to deny Christ.
Oh, and you convey the opposite that Peter free-will chose to deny Christ.
You are trying to have it both ways.
A crucial point is this, no Holy Scripture states that Peter chose Jesus before nor after Peter denied Christ.
Jesus sent messengers to Peter and the apostles (
Matthew 28:10) after Peter denied Christ but Peter and the apostles would not believe those messengers (
Mark 16:9-14).
Later, Jesus went Himself to Peter and the Apostles in the locked room saying "
Peace be with you" (
John 20:19)!
Evil man does not seek the good God, but the good Word of God says that He "
has come to seek and to save that which was lost" (
Luke 19:10)!
You can focus on the mechanism of Peter's denial all that you want, but I focus on the Redeemer redeeming the redeemed Peter.
See Redeemer Jesus atoned for the redeemed Peter.
You have Peter's free-will (he said he wouldn't do) colliding with Peter's free-will (he does that which he said he wouldn't do). There is no such thing as free-will, Christ4Ever.
Christ's foreknowledge is perfect along with Christ explaining the flesh is weak.
I would get into this part with you, but something tells me you don't believe in the Trinity. For if you do not, then any continued discussion in that area would have you banned.
The Voice of Truth (
John 14:6) is sure and strong and loving and absolute.
Beware, you are listening to another per your own writing, there.
I believe in one eternal God, existing as three distinct and equal persons being Love (
Genesis 1:26 [plurality],
Isaiah 48:16 [all three mentioned],
Romans 1:7 [Father],
John 8:58 [Son, referring back to
Exodus 3:14],
John 15:26 [Spirit],
1 John 4:8 [Love]).
I believe God is Love, God is Light, and God is Good (
1 John 4:8,
1 John 1:5,
Luke 18:19)!
I believe the Son of God named
Jesus is the only
Way to God the Father in Heaven. I believe
the Truth (
John 14:6) is the continually immediate inspiration of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God as the one and only possible means of our love of God (
John 13:34,
1 John 4:7). I believe salvation, sanctification, and
the Life eternal are all God delivered into the holy ones (saints) covered by the atoning blood of the formerly crucified but now Living Son of the Living God, Jesus Christ, my Savior and my God! (
John 14:9,
John 14:26,
John 15:26,
John 17:21,
John 17:26)
I love my God, my heavenly Father, Who loves me. I was formerly a slave to sin, dead in my trespasses against the Mighty and Just God, yet now I live for the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to see that I was purchased, the ransom for my crimes against God paid by the very blood of His Son, my Lord Jesus Christ, Emmanuel, God with us. God has given me the precious gift of His indwelling Holy Spirit. When the Father in heaven looks at me, I am safe and heard because I am covered by the blood of Jesus! I know God loves me because He disciplines me (
Psalm 94:12,
Proverbs 3:12,
Hebrews 12:6,
Revelation 3:19), and in the time of testing my God exercised the Holy Spirit filled loving family that He generously gives me for which I am absolutely grateful and thankful to my Lord Jesus. There is no greater joy than knowing my God, and being known by Him! May I, unworthy as I am yet this Lord's House, be an instrument of peace.
This is yet another of your unwarranted mission of malevolence toward me in your post.
Belief had him search out Jesus, but when faced with the reality of Jesus, he doubted.
Happens to a lot of people, but that is God's will, isn't it?
Mark recorded that the boy's father said "
I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they weren’t able" (
Mark 9:18).
Now, Christ4Ever, where does Holy Scripture indicate that the boy's father searched for Jesus? Where is it that the boy's father was doing anything more than searching out healing for his son?
You added to Holy Scripture with your statement, there, Christ4Ever, and you added according to your Free-willian Philosophy.
Your "
lol" ("
laugh out loud") illumines just how you feel about making false witness against me, such as when "You thought wrong, Christ4Ever" (proof
post #137) and "Then you are surely wrong" (proof
post #118).
Whether
controls or
continued, the effect remains the same in
Christ's love controls us Christians (
2 Corinthians 5:14).
Where does "self-willed" come from?
I know these kinds of questions might not sit well with you, as they point to a truth you may not want to or are able to address. Still, I ask them.
You can find the answer to your question in a previous post directed to you in this thread.
If "self-willed" is separate from God, as scripture suggests, then it’s no different from free will because God allows for it to be so and neither one can negate God's Will. The problem you are having is that you believe when "free-will" is used that it is seen as being absolute. It is not. It's always within God's sovereign plan. It might help you if you would see that God is "out of time". Meaning that for God everything that has happened, is happening, will happen, from yesterday, today, tomorrow is always in the "Now". That is why Jesus said "only the Father knows the time" (Matthew 24:36), because Jesus was in time, but God is not and why He has no beginning or end.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
You think you judge what is right according to your free-will, yet the Word of God says "
And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (
Luke 12:57).
Since you equate free-will with self-will, then your free-will has one conclusion per the Apostle "
the Lord knows how" "
to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (
2 Peter 2:9-10).
People who claim to choose Jesus revile Christ's angelic majesty because the Christ of us Christians says “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16) and “
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes salvation).
You are back to God's foreknowledge, so see the second section of this post, Christ4Ever. You Free-willians enthusiastically write about God being outside of time. You are inside of time - bound by that which God knows will unavoidably occur. That which God foreknows will certainly come to pass.
Almighty God made the heavens and the Earth and all that is in them. The glory and honor and dominion are all His!
Love,
Kermos
