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Christmas is Evil.

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Active
The title got you're attention maybe? This is a little about that, but its really about legalism in the church and the hypocrisy that goes along with it. Legalism is basically using the Law of God given to Israel as justification for their hypocritic religion, their empty worship. However, they only hold the Law when it is in their interest to do so. My question is this if you hold the Law of God given to Israel as being active in your life, how can you justify celebrating Christmas or Easter with its pagan origins and its current commercialised meaning?
 
Member
The title got you're attention maybe? This is a little about that, but its really about legalism in the church and the hypocrisy that goes along with it. Legalism is basically using the Law of God given to Israel as justification for their hypocritic religion, their empty worship. However, they only hold the Law when it is in their interest to do so. My question is this if you hold the Law of God given to Israel as being active in your life, how can you justify celebrating Christmas or Easter with its pagan origins and its current commercialised meaning?
If you feel it’s wrong to celebrate Christmas or Easter, then don’t do it. There are so many things we do associated with paganism that if we avoided them all we may just as well not live.

Christmas is a time to spend with family and friends. Some people celebrate it without associating it with Christ birth. NOBODY I know connects it with Satan, and nobody I know celebrates it with pagan gods.

If one feels it’s a sin to celebrate Christmas, then don’t. I feel it’s not a sin. In my church we honor Jesus Christ and no one else.

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Last Christmas I played, Mary did you Know, Oh Holy Night, and O Come, O come Emanuel at two Christmas services and one Christmas concert, and I wasn't worshipping heathen gods but worshipping God the Father for giving us His son Jesus Christ our Savior.

KJV - "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" People who go to church on Sunday or celebrate Christmas are doing the right thing.
 
Active
If you feel it’s wrong to celebrate Christmas or Easter, then don’t do it. There are so many things we do associated with paganism that if we avoided them all we may just as well not live.

Christmas is a time to spend with family and friends. Some people celebrate it without associating it with Christ birth. NOBODY I know connects it with Satan, and nobody I know celebrates it with pagan gods.

If one feels it’s a sin to celebrate Christmas, then don’t. I feel it’s not a sin. In my church we honor Jesus Christ and no one else.

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Last Christmas I played, Mary did you Know, Oh Holy Night, and O Come, O come Emanuel at two Christmas services and one Christmas concert, and I wasn't worshipping heathen gods but worshipping God the Father for giving us His son Jesus Christ our Savior.

KJV - "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" People who go to church on Sunday or celebrate Christmas are doing the right thing.
I just wanted to point out that I do not think celebrating Christmas. Or Easter is a sin. I am just using it as an example to highlight the hypocrisy of religious and legalistic church people.

That said I do not like the holidays myself (especially Christmas). While I might not think it is sinful, I also do not think that it is good for us. While everyone I know says that it is a time to spend with family. Their actions show a different belief at their core.
 
Member
I just wanted to point out that I do not think celebrating Christmas. Or Easter is a sin. I am just using it as an example to highlight the hypocrisy of religious and legalistic church people.

That said I do not like the holidays myself (especially Christmas). While I might not think it is sinful, I also do not think that it is good for us. While everyone I know says that it is a time to spend with family. Their actions show a different belief at their core.
There's a lot about the secular side Christmas I don't like, but I love the season because I reflect on that one special day when the Lord was born a king in less than peasant conditions. I also love Christmas songs, Mary did you Know and O Holy Night my favorites.
 
Loyal
I've heard some of these theories about how Easter and Christmas got started... I'm not sure I believe all of them, but even if they are true....

We were once evil also. We were once unsaved also. Just because we had wicked and evil beginning, does that mean no one celebrates when we change and are born again?

Luke 15:6; "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'
Luke 15:9; "When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost!'
Luke 15:32; 'But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.'"

Luke 15:10; "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."


I say, if something used to be evil, and now it is used to celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ... by all means rejoice and celebrate the victory!!
 
Loyal
@ A. Christian -- you Did say you entitled the thread "Christmas is evil" to get our attention.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. There's been a 'slogan' the past few years about keeping Christ in Christmas. That He's the reason For the season.

Each person can choose to have it as commercialized or Christian as they Want to.

One poster commented about the pagan origins of it or any other holiday. "we" have these holidays Now -- the way We choose to acknowledge them.

And there are those who say that the date set To celebrate Christmas is wrong. The wrong time of year.

I just Googled "Christmas" it's origins on December 25. That dates back to 322 or so. 'They' wanted it to coincide with the pagan festivals honoring Saturn and Mirtha so that the people would be more likely to accept it as a national holiday.

Christmas wasn't celebrated at all for a long time.

The Puritans even banned it because it was linked to paganism. Because of the gift giving and tree decorating.

And that strikes me as interesting because we give gifts because the wise men brought gifts to the baby Jesus. And the evergreen tree represents the eternality of God / Christ.

There Are a lot of Christmas songs that are my favorites -- Oh Holy Night. -- Oh Little Town of Bethleham.

Christmas -- Mary gives birth to the Christ child. The virgin birth.

the fact that Jesus Christ came into this world to show 'us' His Father. He came do Die for our sins and was buried and rose again bodily -- Christmas and Easter / Resurrection Sunday are the basics of Christianity.
 
Loyal
Christmas --- Jesus or commercialism, but it wasn't always like that.

From

St. Nicholas was born in the year 270 AD to wealthy parents. He was involved in the Church at an early age and always observed the Wednesday and Friday fasts. His parents died as a result of a widespread infectious disease. This left the orphaned Nicholas to live with his uncle, also named Nicholas, who was the bishop of Patara. His uncle Nicholas made him a reader and later ordained him to the holy priesthood. After inheriting from his parents, he gave generous 'gifts' to those in need. Not like Christmas now but the principle was there.

Before 313 AD, it was illegal to be a Christian in the Roman Empire, even though there were thousands of Christians at that time. The Emperor Diocletian, showing that he would not waiver in his faith, he imprisoned St. Nicholas for his faith, but he was eventually released once Constantine had gained power.

By 325 AD, Fr. Nicholas had become Bishop Nicholas of the city of Myra, also in what is now south eastern Turkey. St. Constantine the emperor of the Roman Empire, called for a gathering of the bishops of the Empire, in that year, to come together and to discuss issues that the Christians were facing. In this meeting, an early heretic of the Church, Arius, was presenting his view of the theology of the Church.

St. Nicholas, in outrage of listening to his faith being violated by the heretic, is said to have punched Arius in the face. For this, St. Nicholas was stripped of his bishop robes and thrown into prison because it was illegal to strike someone in the presence of the emperor. Overnight St. Nicholas repented of his actions, while not repenting of his views, and was visited by Christ, who gave him both an omorphorion (what the bishop wears over his shoulders) and the gospel. He stayed up the rest of the night reading the gospels, and in the morning St. Constantine freed St. Nicholas because he wasn’t in his shackles and was dressed as a bishop.

Another important story about St. Nicholas’ generosity may be why he eventually became called Santa Claus. There was a man who was once wealthy, but had lost most of his wealth. This man had three daughters near the age of marriage, but could not offer a dowry for them to be married to good men. This father feared that his daughters would become slaves. St. Nicholas heard of this family and coming in secret by night, he threw a sack of gold in the window and it landed in a shoe or stocking. This mysteriously would happen before each daughter was to be wed. For the last daughter, the father saw the secret donor of the dowry's was St. Nicholas. St. Nicholas begged that this man not share the things that had happened. The rest is history.

Over the years the giving of gifts at Christmas became common practice, each nation did it there own way, some in different colours, the pine tree was introduced, and gradually we see the commercialised Christmas which is so common today around the world.

Meanwhile the wise men giving gifts to our Lord, on His First Advent, has gradually faded for many. It is so sad. A couple of years ago I said to family, during the Christmas period, I would do away with the Santa Claus Christmas and let people come together and give gifts they could afford as they felt was right. I was shot down in seconds. To many people buy because they will receive a present off someone else, even if they cannot afford it. To many people will buy more expensive items because they know they will get a more expensive one of another person, even if they cannot afford it.

The True Story of Jesus coming at what we call Christmas, actually Advent, has faded as the world become more and more swamped with materialism, buying food much of which will be thrown away, buying sweets and chocolates to gorge on, buying beer, wine and spirits, to drown their sorrow, it is a crazy world for the lost souls.

Christmas morning arrives, kids hyped up from adverts leading to the day, I want, I want, I want, were common calls of kids everywhere, they open their presents, then don't know what to play with or what to do, a fortune has been spent yet many young children end us choosing to play with cardboard boxes. Everybody eats then no body knows what to do, some sleep, others flick through 100's of TV channels and say there is nothing on. They can't wait for Boxing Day to go to the sales.

They don't know Jesus, they don't know what He has done for them, they don't know what he went through for them, they don't even know who St Nicholas is.

The first Advent changed the world, the Christ child was and is the perfect gift, in fact He is the only gift we need.

Thanks be to God, Jesus is Lord.
 
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Loyal
I've Also heard people say that the Bible doesn't tell us to celebrate either Christmas Or Resurrection Day. But We are given the Feasts in the Old Testament. Well -- as a person feels Led to -- by all means -- but please don't say it's wrong to celebrate these events.

And, come to think of it -- 'we' Do celebrate anniversary's of our birthdays and our Kid's birthdays And Father's Day and Mother's Day. And there Are churches that Don't celebrate these, either. That Everyday we should honor our parents.

Everything is based on our birthdays. How old we are -- starting school, etc. etc. Just my 2 cents worth :)
 
Member
As people we love to memorialize and build monuments to events and circumstance we believe are important to remember and causes to rally around. As these tokens age, following generations feel a need to add, build on, associate with something new, seek to create gain and even worship the memorial even in cases where the exact origins or locations are not known. Using Christmas as an example, was Jesus even born in December? Can holy days be evil or be given a different meaning than originally created? YES. Do we have to fall into the extra trappings that come with the celebrations around holidays. NO.
 
Loyal
The birth of Jesus Christ Is foundational to Christianity. Bible suggest that He was born when the shepherds were out with their flocks -- which would be the Springtime? I really don't know. But since that date December 25 has come into existence For celebrating it -- it's important To acknowledge the birth of Jesus Christ.
 
Loyal
The birth of Jesus Christ Is foundational to Christianity. Bible suggest that He was born when the shepherds were out with their flocks -- which would be the Springtime? I really don't know. But since that date December 25 has come into existence For celebrating it -- it's important To acknowledge the birth of Jesus Christ.

I understand that some have calculated the birth of Christ to September or October, but the year of Jesus' birth is a little harder to calculate come say 2 - 4 B.C. others say 4 - 6 B.C.

What I think we can be sure of is, the churches calendar year was set by the RCC. Surprize!

This was taken from Wikipedia
The date of birth of Jesus is not stated in the Gospels or in any historical reference, but most theologians assume a date of birth between 6 BC and 4 BC.

The historical evidence is too incomplete to allow a definitive dating, but the date is estimated through two different approaches
- one by analyzing references to known historical events mentioned in the nativity accounts in the Gospels of Luke and Matthew,
- the second by working backwards from the estimation of the start of the ministry of Jesus.

Some extracts below are taken from the following page

Keeping Time: The Origin of B.C. & A.D.
In the early Middle Ages, the most important calculation, and thus one of the main motivations for the European study of mathematics, was the problem of when to celebrate Easter. The First Council of Nicaea, in A.D. 325, had decided that Easter would fall on the Sunday following the full moon that follows the spring equinox. Computus (Latin for computation) was the procedure for calculating this most important date, and the computations were set forth in documents known as Easter tables.

It was on one such table that, in A.D. 525, a monk named Dionysius Exiguus of Scythia Minor introduced the A.D. system, counting the years since the birth of Christ.

Anno Diocletiani to Anno Domini
Dionysius devised his system to replace the Diocletian system, named after the 51st emperor of Rome, who ruled from A.D. 284 to A.D. 305. The first year in Dionysius' Easter table, “Anno Domini 532,” followed the year “Anno Diocletiani 247.” Dionysius made the change specifically to do away with the memory of this emperor who had been a ruthless persecutor of Christians.

Dionysius never said how he determined the date of Jesus' birth, but some authors theorize that he used current beliefs about cosmology, planetary conjunctions and the precession of equinoxes to calculate the date. Dionysius attempted to set A.D. 1 as the year of Jesus Christ’s birth, but was off in his estimation by a few years, which is why the best modern estimates place Christ’s birth at 4 B.C.

The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in A.D. 336, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine who was recognised at the time as the first Christian Roman Emperor. Which was 11 years after The First Council of Nicaea, in A.D. 325.

So it appears that the Churches year was set out by noting all the special days/periods and made to fit into a twelve month period, starting with Easter which is the only moving period in the churches year and still follows the cycle of the moon for the spring equinox to set its date in each year.
 
Loyal
@Brother-Paul -- I'd been aware of some of that history -- the present date of December 25 is fine with me. No matter What the actual date -- it's the event that is Very important.
 
Member
Sue D.,
re: "I've Also heard people say that the Bible doesn't tell us to celebrate either Christmas Or Resurrection Day... but please don't say it's wrong to celebrate these events."


Perhaps not; just so it's understood that scripture is silent with regard to anyone observing either one.
 
Loyal
In the Old Testament the Feasts came over a period of time, the OT was never a closed book as it pointed to the coming Messiah.

The New Testament as we know takes everything prophesied in the OT plus the teachings in the Gospels, Epistles and Revelation, then the book is closed, waiting the fulfilment of all things.

As we can see from Acts onward, the early church was started, and grew over time, not without major opposition from the Jews, Romans and others. The first century AD suffered immense turmoil and the destruction of the Temple. It wasn't until Constantine era, approx. 300 A.D. as detailed in post #13 above that the Christian Church, Roman Catholic Church, actually took together all the main periods in the Christian Year and placed each into a twelve month cycle, starting with Easter, then Christmas. Christmas coming from the term Christ - Mass understandable under RCC leadership.

In brief, that is why these periods are not in scripture, but it doesn't make it incorrect to have these important periods in the churches year, in fact I would say, as I believe most would say, it is right to celebrate Christ throughout the year as we do, year on year up until His Coming in Glory.

There are many items in the RCC that I cannot agree with but, the churches year was I think a wise thing to do. It is a pity they got the timing of the years wrong but, it was complicated to work out as scripture does not directly tell us these things, we don't even know how the monk named Dionysius Exiguus of Scythia Minor, who introduced the A.D. system, counted and tabled the years back to the birth of Christ.

Here we have a very important item to note, the whole world should take note of it, Christ's birth was so important, prophesy fulfilled to the letter, that it caused the world to start re-counted the years, from the birth of Christ (with no year zero).
The monk was only 2 to 6 years out in his calculations in A.D 525

Blessings
 
Loyal
@Brother-Paul -- I'd been aware of some of that history -- the present date of December 25 is fine with me. No matter What the actual date -- it's the event that is Very important.
I totally agree sister.

As mentioned in a post above, there are many items the RCC do, that we cannot agree with when compared with scripture, but the planning of the Churches year was an important one.

I think I read that the Advent period was probably placed at the end of the year as it was a time after the harvests, it was a quieter time of year when families would come together. This would also make sense as Easter was the first period chosen in the churches year, linked to the Spring Equinox. Over the years commerce has grown around the churches year with main Christian Days recognised as holidays.

Another reason I read that Christmas was placed at the end of the year was that Christ's birth marked a new beginning, a new year, resolution to get right with Christ, not to lose weight, stop chocolate and drinks as we see today.

Bless you
 
Member
Sue D.,
re: "I've Also heard people say that the Bible doesn't tell us to celebrate either Christmas Or Resurrection Day... but please don't say it's wrong to celebrate these events."


Perhaps not; just so it's understood that scripture is silent with regard to anyone observing either one.
It is silent but we do have an example in Acts 21. This passage is the only other passage that explains to us the TRUE meaning of 'apostasy.'

There were many Jews in the Church in Jerusalem who became believers who still kept the Judaic law and continued as Jews, but they did believe. Paul was accused by these Jewish believers of calling for an apostasy, i.e. forsake ALL Jewish festivities and celebrations. These Jewish believers thought Paul commanded them to no longer take part in any of them, but Paul stands his ground and convinces them that this is not an apostasy, OR a complete abandonment of the customs and traditions of Mosaic and Judaic law. He wasn't calling for an 'apostasy' i.e - totally abandoning Mosaic and Judaic law, and going completely over to the New Covenant. He wasn't calling for a total abandonment, only a few things like blood sacrifices were forbidden. The Christian Jews were allowed to continue in many of their customs, traditions, and festivals. That shows that apostasy IS NOT a partial abandonment but a complete abandonment of all Jewish customs and traditions.

The same is true of Holy Days like Christmas and Easter. In Paul's day, believing Jews were still allowed to take part in religious and temple festivities even though the religion itself denied the Christ. We are not doing anything wrong observing Christmas and Easter. For me they are the most blessed times of the year.
 
Loyal
@rstrats -- we do have Christian liberty to do / celebrate that which does not go against God's Word. Honoring a person's Mom or Dad by doing something special for / with them is Wonderful.

It would be a Natural thing to Want to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ and his bodily resurrection. Because we really don't have salvation without those events. :)
 
Active
You don't think celebrating Christmas is sinful, but you title the thread "Christmas is evil"?
I believe that celebrating it could be sinful but so could eating steak if a person believes that its sinful. But really the title was really just click bait.
 

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