Charlie Kirk

[Rad]

What nonsense. He raised valid arguments irrespective of race. Something for example like ''a majority of inmates being black'' is just a fact, not him trying to ''inflame racial tensions''. Unless you properly discern the facts, you cannot find a solution.

OK, lets examine some of these quotes of CK to see if what i'm saying is in fact nonsense, sometimes its not what we say but the context and how we say it. I'm not familiar with the quote about the majority of inmates being black", what was the context of that quote, i'd be interested to know, also a few other quotes from CK, he spoke of a number of Black women " not having the brain processing power to get where they are", is that a Christian thiong to say?, he spoke of having to deal with "a moronic black woman in customer services", is that as Christian thing to say, he spoke of the BLM as standing for "Burn Loot and Murder", is that a christian thing to say, he called George Floyd a "scumbag", is that a Christian term you'd use to describe someone, he spoke of "gangs of marauding blacks going round cities attacking white folks for fun", is that a Christian thing to say and when introducing Kyle Rittenhouse onto his show said, " Lets hear it loud for Kyle Rittenhouse", a man who'd gone to a demo protesting police brutality with an assault rifle and killed 2 men , is that a Christian way to act, he said that "600 white women are killed by blck men every year", a statistic he himself questioned but read it out anyway, is that a Christian way to act?, he called MLK a "Bad guy", said the Civil rights act " had turned into an anti white weapon" and accused Democrats of letting immigrants into the country to replace whites as immigrants are more likely to vote democrat, is that a Christian thing to say?, the so called "Great replacement theory", under the guise of affirmative action he described an extreme example of 2 black pilots, with stereotype Black names, who'd never flown before, and then he posed the question, "You ask yourself, are they qualified?", i dont know the rules of affirmative action in the US but can they appoint people of racial minorities who arent suitably qualified to positions of responsibility like airline pilots?, i'm not saying CK was racist, just that he used race to publicise himself and sensationalise an issue to provoke extreme reactions, which he used to propel himself from relative obscurity to national prominence in a short space of time, but in so doing inflamed an already tense and volatile racial situation in the US.

Dude, you really are coming off as a troll now. I typed a long post for you in a new thread on this passage and 'judging'.

Post in thread 'Are Christians to judge others?'

Oct 20, 2025

Matthew 5 vs 39 Christ said "Resist not Evil and whoever would smite you on the right cheek offer the left also", in Matthew 7 vs 1-2 he said "Judge not that you be not judged, for with what Judgement you judge you shall be judged...." Evil comes in many forms in this fallen world, from the murderer to the child rapist, to those that live in wealth and comfort while millions suffer and die in poverty, to the arms manufacturers who deal in death and destruction and the bankers and Financial institutions who with a stroke of a pen condemn millions to lives of oppression and destitution...

• KingJ

• 

At the moment its hard enough keeping up to date with posts in this thread, but when this runs its course, i will look at the other thread, be patient.

And ''do not resist evil'' cannot be read in isolation any more than ''jump and angels will catch you''. Please try understand that you are teaching half truths just like the devil did in Matt 4.

So tell me the "whole truth", tell me what you believe Christ was trying to say.

It depends on the sin. Remember I gave you 1 Cor 6 where Paul is clear that we as Christians must judge matters better than the unsaved. As such, If I was a murderer I would A. Make right with God, B. Accept a swift and graphic death by stoning. Society cannot live with such sinners. Examples have to be made. The entire Jewish race was the example to us of God's hatred of sins.

And how do you know that youre "saved", Christ talks of many that claim to be his followers but to whom he will say, "i know you not" Matthew 7 21-23. And you think stoning is a "swift and graphic death", have you ever seen a stoning, seems to me if would be anything but swift, and you say "society cannot live with such sinners", but we are ALL sinners, or do you feel you have cast sin out of your life?, Christ calls those that believe they can judge others as "hypocrites" and tells them to "take the log out of their own eyes" before they condemn others, or perhaps you also fell youve taken the log out of your eye as well?.

A swift death, albeit graphic and violent, is interestingly enough not 'punishment'. The fire waiting for all unrepentant sinners in hell, that is punishment.

I somehow dont think you'd feel that if you had to endure it, but yes the punishment of Hell is forever, so we all need to examine our actions and beliefs and not just follow what suits us best irrespective of Christs teachings, else we too may be told "i know you not".

Jesus was not against punishment for sin, if He was He would not have died on the cross. Jesus was ushering in a new dispensation. One where Jews no longer needed to live by the letter of the law.

---------------

You are stuck in a bubble and going in circles on these points. Please properly read what is being said to you.

 

[Rad]

If it doesn’t reduce it, then what kind of people are you suggesting are unaffected? Not just wrongdoers, but also psychopaths or sociopaths. It’s like a believer or ministry avoiding discussions on sin just to spare someone’s feelings. You can always push things to extremes, which is what seems to be what you are implying here which is not the case. So, the extremes are out for you, as they are for me, but are you suggesting it’s better to have no deterrent at all and let human nature run its course? I hope that’s not the case either!

I would imagine that people commit murder for so many different reasons, there are some Psychopaths, some sociopaths, but also people motivated by anger, hatred, greed, lust and envy, people that plan meticulously and those that act on impulse, thats why i wanted to see your references for your statement about deterrents, so if youve got them i'd be interested to see them. As for "pushing to extremes2, not really ,just want to know how far the means justify the ends, if it could be proved that graphic torture acted as a greater deterrent would you support it?. I'm not sure if deterrents work that well, although i support people that commit violent crimes being taken out of society, from what i've read the countries with the lowest crime rates, have the least emphasis on punishment and much more on understanding why people commit crimes and how to provide them with the resources to reverse their behaviour.

I get the impression that anything to do with CK is wrong! So, going back to OT, was God wrong in what He asked to be done with Amalekites, which was to destroy them all? I wonder if you're aware of what future book you'd not be reading about if they had done as He had directed them to do! Here is an interesting verse for you to digest:

If I have done something worthy of death, I don't refuse to die. But if I am innocent, no one has a right to turn me over to these men to kill me. I appeal to Caesar!" Acts 25:11 NLT

With the thoughts you have put forward above, are you then a Universalists? That can be the only explanation for your belief, because NT abounds with accountability, for the sinner to include destruction.

I'm not saying everything to do with CK is wrong, for ive not seen all his works, and some of what he says on Affirmative action makes sense and i agree with what ive seen of his views on Abortion, , what i'm saying is that much of what ive seen of CK pours fuel on some of the most inflammatory asoects of US society, Race, the death penalty, immigration and the like, and his delivery is designed to be extremely provocative and promoting discord and even hatred and. as such i see it far from how i believe a Christian should act.

The quote you provide is interesting, i see it as an acceptance that if we transgress the laws of the state, and for a Christian that transgression should only be as a result of those laws transgressing Christs commandments, then we have to accept the punishment given by the state, for is we are persecuted for Righteousness sake, for following the will of God, then we indeed truly blessed and great will be our reward in heaven. Matthew 5 vs 10-12, for if we lose our life in the service of the Kingdom then we will save it.

So, are you saying it's okay to forgo one sin so that another may be committed?
Again, Romans 13:4. As I've addressed you are in a country that has decided to not have the death penalty, while I live in a country that does. So, it's okay for you since you are not faced with the decision, but you are asking me to go against the very government here and so the dictates of God?

Is there no middle ground with you? I ask because apparently there is none, because you seem to default to "what if" scenarios.

Not sure what you mean about "forgoing one sin so that another may be committed", please elaborate, and are we not continually sinning, all of us, in thought, in word ,in deed?. What i'm saying is that we can only transgress the laws of a country when those laws transgress the Laws of God, our commitment to our faith and the teachings of Christ are above any man made law and where they clash we must always choose to follow Christs teachings and accept any punishment meted out to us.

And there is "middle ground", the middle ground for me is the gap between the teachings of Christ and knowing what i should do and what i actually do,but there can be no compromise of Christs commandments, only the acceptance of my sin and my feeble attempts to follow him.

As to "what if scenarios", i find they concentrate the miond and make us apply our beliefs to the reality of their working out in the world. Its all to easy to say "I believe this", but when the implications of that belief are applied to practical situations then those beliefs can often seem harder to justify.

At least you agree something should be done, but where did you find it in scripture that they should be removed from society so as to protect others/themselves? Much less to get understanding to correct their behavior by doing so?

I suppose it comes from the general, universal rule of Christ that "We should love our neighbour as ourselves and treat others as we would want to be treated", when theres no specific teaching to the contrary these are the rules i try to follow.

You like to mention about "passing judgment" as if it is not allowed. I do believe that does not take into account, that the judgment of the believer, exists and needs to be done, but done righteously! You speak as if it is not allowed at all which is not true!

We can pass judgement on the actions of others and ourselves, but as to passing judgement on their death, then thats specifically spoken against by Christ when confronted by the woman taken in adultery, for all of us are sinners. And how do you know you are a "believer" and not one of those many Christ will say to "i know you not"?

You're talking about Trump and USAID being cut! Again, involving yourself in politics/policies that are not of your own country! Since you can be open minded (I want to believe this.), which policies that were cut should have been cut and which ones should not have been? I want to see you looking at the problem both ways.

Do you believe when Christ said, "Love your neighbour as yourself, and treat others as you'd want to be treated", he meant to add " but only in your own country", the parable of the Good Samaritan shows who our neighbour is and depicts a despised minority as being the one that helps, check out the "Sheep and the goats" in Matthew 25, there Christ so identifies himself with the poor and suffering that he says "when you help them you help me", are you going to ignore the suffering Christ just because hes not within an arbitrary line drawn by men.?

Are you aware of the amount of GDP given in Overseas Aid by the US before the cuts by trump?, i read a report by Mercy Corps who estimate that over the next 5 years 14 million people in the poorest countries will die as a result of US aid cuts. is that acceptable to you?, do you think the US is rich enough to both provide a reasonable amount to that "suffering Christs" in other countries as well as provide for its own citizens, Bear in mind Trumps allocated a $1 Trilliojn budget for the pentagon, money for war but not for bread, is that what you think Christ would want?.

Plus, what dictates that the US is supposed to take care of the rest of the world? Oh, and if that happened and Trump should be executed for cutting excesses then what about the countries whose leaders that do nothing? How about the UK, why don't they pick up the slack and do it themselves? Why not go into debt like the US has to the tune of trillions of dollars, to help others? Come on, be honest, you do believe that the US has this responsibility, but not other countries, who do little to nothing! The sword can cut both ways. Let's kill all the leaders who do nothing is that what you are saying, or do nothing either way? (Heavy sigh)

I'm talking about what Christians should advocate, i criticise ALL rich nations for their lack of Compassion and Justice for the worlds poorest, you said that Pedos and those that destroy childs lives should be execvuted, i am just following thorugh on your logic, if Trumps decision to cut aid kills 14 million over the next 5 years, many of them children, then what do you think should be his punishment?, and if you believe in the death penalty for sins, then yes ,the line of those to be executed would be unending, but for myself, i recognise that none of us are worthy enough to cast that first stone, we live in an evil and corrupt world, driven by greed and lust, hate and indifference, and the only one that can truly judge us is God alone.

And ive campaigned over many years, 40 years plus, for an increase in Aid from ALL countries, the UK has just cut its aid programme back by £4 billion which will cost millionsw of lives and push hundreds of millions more into lives of abject poverty and suffering, i can not ignore the suffering Christ in my midst, can you?.

So, you believe that Christians should rule the world, and impose their beliefs on all peoples regardless of what they believe in?
Until the Lord returns, that's not going to happen, and even when He returns, you know that is when the real of wars of wars will happen, right?

No Christians will never "rule this World", for this World and the governments in it are ruled by the Devil,....and what have i said that leads you to the assumption that i believe we should "impose our beliefs on others", thats not the way of Christ, God could have imposed his will on humanity, but he gave us Free will, gave us a choice, Christ showed us the way we should live and its up to us whether or not we follow his teachings

And yes i'm well aware of Christs words on the end of this world, but we need to focus on the evil of today and the good we can do and let the future take care of itself. "Do not worry about the future for sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof".

I'm patient and will await your response. I just won't preoccupy myself, with wondering how you'll reply to what I have posted. lol (smile)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

As for "pushing to extremes2, not really ,just want to know how far the means justify the ends, if it could be proved that graphic torture acted as a greater deterrent would you support it?. I'm not sure if deterrents work that well, although i support people that commit violent crimes being taken out of society, from what i've read the countries with the lowest crime rates, have the least emphasis on punishment and much more on understanding why people commit crimes and how to provide them with the resources to reverse their behaviour.

How far depends on the individual as well as the country you are talking about wouldn't you say? Actually, deterrent does work, but it depends on the socioeconomic conditions, systemic factors of the country that you are talking about when one is talking about crime. Think about nuclear weapons, and mutually shared destruction. So, deterrence does work, but it really has other factors that must be considered, before one says it doesn't work or has limited affect.

Some countries go over the top in punishment, and it seems to work. Check out Singapore. While I agree in some countries like Iceland, Denmark, have low crime rates, what you will also find is its racial homogeny is also limited. Not something anyone likes to talk about or take into account either. lol

The quote you provide is interesting, i see it as an acceptance that if we transgress the laws of the state, and for a Christian that transgression should only be as a result of those laws transgressing Christs commandments, then we have to accept the punishment given by the state, for is we are persecuted for Righteousness sake, for following the will of God, then we indeed truly blessed and great will be our reward in heaven. Matthew 5 vs 10-12, for if we lose our life in the service of the Kingdom then we will save it.

Exactly, right. For a Christian, but for the non-believer who are already transgressors against God, and Christ, the laws of the state stand as an acceptable form of punishment to be metered out.

The interesting part of it is, try standing on your forgiveness in Christ Jesus for your sins, in a regular court of law and see how far that gets you! I do believe that Paul saw this, and as a Roman Citizen, was able to plead his case to Cesar.

Not sure what you mean about "forgoing one sin so that another may be committed", please elaborate, and are we not continually sinning, all of us, in thought, in word ,in deed?. What i'm saying is that we can only transgress the laws of a country when those laws transgress the Laws of God, our commitment to our faith and the teachings of Christ are above any man made law and where they clash we must always choose to follow Christs teachings and accept any punishment meted out to us.

And there is "middle ground", the middle ground for me is the gap between the teachings of Christ and knowing what i should do and what i actually do,but there can be no compromise of Christs commandments, only the acceptance of my sin and my feeble attempts to follow him.

As to "what if scenarios", i find they concentrate the miond and make us apply our beliefs to the reality of their working out in the world. Its all to easy to say "I believe this", but when the implications of that belief are applied to practical situations then those beliefs can often seem harder to justify.

Actually, you see the very issue of "forgoing one sin so that another may be committed". You are saying that "we can only transgress the laws of a country...", even though the authority that made the laws of the country is God. You would fall back on man-made law, while the authority is God for them to do so! That's the conundrum you are facing, and why I said what I said.

I agree with your "middle ground". Romans 7:14-20 speaks well to this.

I disagree with your explanation of "what if scenarios". For to you it may be an assist to see if the implications of one's belief can hold water, because it is a too weak version to the actual reality of having to follow through in faith one's belief. In certain instances that is fine, but in the area we are talking about I would say no. Would I rely on those scenarios if I knew I’d have to face the reality of making decisions based on them, knowing they might not truly reflect what my actions would be when the time came to make them if they were personal? Or am I just deluding myself into thinking they would? I am honest to know that I would not want to be tested in this way, for I know my own sinful nature. To do otherwise, is to seek to have your resolve tested in reality, which for me is similar to asking for patience!

I suppose it comes from the general, universal rule of Christ that "We should love our neighbour as ourselves and treat others as we would want to be treated", when theres no specific teaching to the contrary these are the rules i try to follow.

That is why I provided Paul's words.

We can pass judgement on the actions of others and ourselves, but as to passing judgement on their death, then thats specifically spoken against by Christ when confronted by the woman taken in adultery, for all of us are sinners. And how do you know you are a "believer" and not one of those many Christ will say to "i know you not"?

We need to pass judgment brother! In fact, we do it every day of our lives. However, doing it rightly is the conundrum we all must face. Folks like to use the adulterous woman as an example, of forgiveness of sin, but leave out the future behavior being judged not just in this act, but all acts. Forgiveness for that one act of hers does not negate first the consequences of her sin apart from the stoning, but also any future sin being brought to account against her.

You asked me a question, and I know the answer lies not in anything I’ve done, but in what He, my Jesus, has done for me. So, I ask you this: Do you believe your actions are what will save you? If so, what does that mean for God’s grace?

Do you believe when Christ said, "Love your neighbour as yourself, and treat others as you'd want to be treated", he meant to add " but only in your own country", the parable of the Good Samaritan shows who our neighbour is and depicts a despised minority as being the one that helps, check out the "Sheep and the goats" in Matthew 25, there Christ so identifies himself with the poor and suffering that he says "when you help them you help me", are you going to ignore the suffering Christ just because hes not within an arbitrary line drawn by men.?

Are you aware of the amount of GDP given in Overseas Aid by the US before the cuts by trump?, i read a report by Mercy Corps who estimate that over the next 5 years 14 million people in the poorest countries will die as a result of US aid cuts. is that acceptable to you?, do you think the US is rich enough to both provide a reasonable amount to that "suffering Christs" in other countries as well as provide for its own citizens, Bear in mind Trumps allocated a $1 Trilliojn budget for the pentagon, money for war but not for bread, is that what you think Christ would want?.

Do you believe salvation is individual or can be received as a community?

Then why are you not following our laws that we have in the US, or for that matter, any of the myriad laws for caning, the cutting off limbs, etc.? Which they do to neighbors too who commit the crimes that warrant it or are you saying that if you commit a crime, you should not be punished for it, or only God can punish you, and not by the authority He put in place to do so?

I've asked you to break down which USAID funded programs are acceptable to be cut, but I hear only generalities for funding that is being cut, and not specifics. What falls under what one would consider humanitarian aid, is wide and varied, to were you to know what they were, even the most liberal of people would say "what?". So, what I am saying, is that just saying so does not make it true. Research a little of the programs that Musk's team Doge was suggesting being cut (all placed on line), and you might have a better idea of what is being talked about. Instead of believing everything from the left or right that you've gotten your information from. Also, what is the UN doing? Isn't that their responsibility?

Here's a start: I hope you don't have a problem with these or at least the majority of them.

Program/Grant Description	Country/Region	Amount (USD)	Rationale for Cut (per DOGE)	Status
Grant to Gavi (global vaccine access organization)	Global	$1.75 billion (claimed; actual prior payout $880 million)	Duplicate funding and lack of oversight; seen as inefficient international handout.	Canceled in full.
PEPFAR (HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment, including Ebola efforts)	Africa/Global	$9.4 billion (partial cut from broader USAID health programs)	Accused of "woke" elements; initial freeze disrupted meds for 2M+ people, later partially restored amid backlash.	Partially cut; chaos reported in supply chains.
DEI/ESG consultancy services	Africa	$520 million	Corporate-style "woke" consulting with no direct U.S. benefit.	Terminated.
Biodiversity conservation and "licit livelihoods" promotion	Colombia	$25 million	Vague environmental/social engineering abroad.	Canceled.
Social/economic inclusion for sedentary migrants	Global	$40 million	Unclear value; prioritized foreign migrants over U.S. needs.	Axed.
Social and behavioral change research/programs	Uganda	$42 million	Ideological interventions with low ROI.	Cut.
Political development and election strengthening	Global (Consortium for Elections)	$486 million	Foreign election meddling; included voter turnout boosts.	Eliminated.
Voter turnout enhancement	India	$21 million	Non-essential foreign political influence.	Terminated.
Political landscape strengthening	Bangladesh	$29 million	Bureaucratic waste in unstable regions.	Canceled.
Fiscal federalism and biodiversity initiatives	Nepal	$39 million ($20M + $19M)	Overlapping, low-impact grants.	Both cut.
Social cohesion promotion	Mali	$14 million	Risky funding in conflict zones with fraud potential.	Axed.
Inclusive democratic processes	South Africa	$2.5 million	Redundant "inclusion" efforts.	Terminated.
Educational outcomes improvement	Asia	$47 million	Broad, untargeted spending.	Cut.
Condom distribution	Hamas-linked groups (Gaza)	$100 million	Funding to terrorist-affiliated entities.	Halted.
Voluntary medical male circumcision	Mozambique	$10 million	Questionable health priority abroad.	Canceled.
Independent media voices strengthening	Cambodia	$2.3 million	Media bias promotion.	Axed.
Public procurement enhancement	Serbia	$14 million	Administrative bloat.	Terminated.
Political participation and inclusion	Moldova	$22 million	Foreign political activism.	Cut.
Voter confidence boosting	Liberia	$1.5 million	Minimal U.S. strategic value.	Canceled.
Sesame Street educational programming	Iraq	$20 million	Cultural exports with no security return.	Eliminated.
Meals for al-Qaeda-linked group	Syria	$10 million	Direct aid to terrorists.	Halted.
Combating disinformation	Kazakhstan	$4.5 million	Censorship tool disguised as aid.	Cut.
Avoiding binary-gendered language training for journalists	Sri Lanka	$7.9 million	Extreme ideological training.	Terminated.
LGBT advocacy	Jamaica	$1.5 million	Non-core U.S. foreign policy.	Axed.
LGBT causes/activism	Guatemala (sex changes), Uganda, Western Balkans, Armenia, Honduras, South Africa, Latin America, Global	$2M + $5.5M + $3.9M + $1.1M + $1.9M + $6.3M + $2M + $6M (total ~$28M)	"Woke" priorities over essentials.	All canceled.
Equity and inclusion education	Global (USAID Education)	$8.3 million	DEI in foreign schools.	Cut.
EcoHealth Alliance (bat virus research funding)	Global (Wuhan lab ties)	$5 million (x2 instances)	Links to controversial origins of COVID-19.	Terminated.
Gas station construction	Afghanistan	$43 million	Unused infrastructure boondoggle.
Pottery classes and promotion	Morocco	$2 million	Cultural frivolity.	Canceled.
Transgender opera	Colombia	$47,000	Artistic propaganda.	Axed.
Transgender comic book	Peru	$32,000	Niche ideological media.	Terminated.
Reintegration gift bags for deportees (incl. Barbie dolls)	Global	$27 million	Silly, low-value items.	Cut.

Controversies: While DOGE touted fraud reductions (e.g., $1B recovered), global health experts estimated 14 million+ preventable deaths by 2030 from disrupted programs like PEPFAR and malaria aid. Legal challenges temporarily blocked some cuts, but courts largely upheld DOGE's authority.

I'm talking about what Christians should advocate, i criticise ALL rich nations for their lack of Compassion and Justice for the worlds poorest, you said that Pedos and those that destroy childs lives should be execvuted, i am just following thorugh on your logic, if Trumps decision to cut aid kills 14 million over the next 5 years, many of them children, then what do you think should be his punishment?, and if you believe in the death penalty for sins, then yes ,the line of those to be executed would be unending, but for myself, i recognise that none of us are worthy enough to cast that first stone, we live in an evil and corrupt world, driven by greed and lust, hate and indifference, and the only one that can truly judge us is God alone.

And ive campaigned over many years, 40 years plus, for an increase in Aid from ALL countries, the UK has just cut its aid programme back by £4 billion which will cost millionsw of lives and push hundreds of millions more into lives of abject poverty and suffering, i can not ignore the suffering Christ in my midst, can you?.

What Christians should advocate? Want me to add a verse for you to say, that we are in the World but not of it?

You suffer for people, so turn them to Jesus! I knew of an organization that decided not to try to use the giving of food with the Gospel of Jesus. Do you know why? Not to upset the people who believed differently!!! These same organizations if you were to tell them, that they could have all the money they needed, but the Gospel of Jesus would have to be spread along with it...do you know what they'd say??? "NO THANK-YOU"! That is how ultraistic the organizations you are dealing with are!!! Saving their bodies seems so important to them, but losing their eternal lives doesn't matter as much!

So, what should Christian's advocate? The Gospel!!!!

People often approach me outside grocery stores asking for money to buy food. Instead of giving them cash, I offer to shop for food with them and cover the cost, but so far, no one has taken me up on it! You can’t be sure where the money actually goes. You want to believe it’s all helping the poor and hungry, but the reality is often darker than what you imagine about those who are cutting funding.

Oh, and please don't put the blame of poverty and suffering on the people who did not create the problem in the first place! (Matthew 26:11)
I am with you, but I'm also a realist, to the grey areas that have caused the problems that we see worldwide. Give them Jesus, and you will have given them what all the resources in the world could never give them and won't be able to!

That is the focus, as a Christian, in disciple making, and all else we do is so that we can give them Jesus! If you don't include that with what you do, and hope that they'll get it some other way...well...

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

“The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like an eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand… They will eat the offspring of your livestock and the fruit of your land until you are destroyed.”
(Deuteronomy 28:49–51, ESV)

“But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
(1 Timothy 5:8, ESV)

“So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.”
This verse highlights prioritizing care for fellow Christians while still doing good to all. Gal 6:10

“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Jesus makes love among believers a defining mark of discipleship. John 13:34-35

“But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.”
Practical care for believers in need is a test of genuine love. 1Jn 3:17-18

We should love our neighbors and take care of them if possible, but the Bible makes it clear our priority should taking care of our own families and fellow believers, and even fellow nationals before stranger, non-believers and aliens.

Once we take care of these things first, then we can look to taking care of others. There are at least 1 dozen more verses like these.

 

[B-A-C]

James 1:27
“Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.”
→ True faith includes practical care for widows.

1 Timothy 5:3–4
“Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.”
→ Family should care for widows first.

1 Timothy 5:16
“If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.”

Exodus 20:12
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.”
→ This commandment includes respect and provision.

Matthew 15:4–6
Jesus rebukes those who neglect parents under the guise of religious excuses:
“For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.”

Take care of the elderly and parents before giving to others. Even before the church.
Romans 13:7
“Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.”
→ This principle can apply to honoring those who have served in defense.

 

[Brad Huber]

Yes God is the always the same, the point i was making is that while there are many instances in the OT of the Death Penalty Christ came not to destroy the Old Laws but to fulfill them, it was always Gods plan that judicial execution should be replaced by Mercy and forgiveness, to not have sinners passing judgement on other sinners, so it was not a change of mind by God but a fulfillment of a plan that he had from the beginning.

But thats just circular reasoning, Jesus fufilled them doesnt mean He was against capitol punishment. When Jesus walked this earth around 2000 years ago, it was his purpose to bring healing and forgiveness, but its clear from scripture that when he returns it will be with alot of killing of evil people. And instead of doing it just Himself, He will bring 10,000 of His holy ones. And although mercy and forgiveness is indeed good things, its only shown as good when the people are actually repentent. God set up a system of Judges to do just that over Israel. So its not at all bad, just that we should be "good" judges, where you advocate for no humans to judge, not even those put into position to do so.

 

[KingJ]

OK, lets examine some of these quotes of CK to see if what i'm saying is in fact nonsense, sometimes its not what we say but the context and how we say it. I'm not familiar with the quote about the majority of inmates being black", what was the context of that quote, i'd be interested to know, also a few other quotes from CK, he spoke of a number of Black women " not having the brain processing power to get where they are", is that a Christian thiong to say?, he spoke of having to deal with "a moronic black woman in customer services", is that as Christian thing to say, he spoke of the BLM as standing for "Burn Loot and Murder", is that a christian thing to say, he called George Floyd a "scumbag", is that a Christian term you'd use to describe someone, he spoke of "gangs of marauding blacks going round cities attacking white folks for fun", is that a Christian thing to say and when introducing Kyle Rittenhouse onto his show said, " Lets hear it loud for Kyle Rittenhouse", a man who'd gone to a demo protesting police brutality with an assault rifle and killed 2 men , is that a Christian way to act, he said that "600 white women are killed by blck men every year", a statistic he himself questioned but read it out anyway, is that a Christian way to act?, he called MLK a "Bad guy", said the Civil rights act " had turned into an anti white weapon" and accused Democrats of letting immigrants into the country to replace whites as immigrants are more likely to vote democrat, is that a Christian thing to say?, the so called "Great replacement theory", under the guise of affirmative action he described an extreme example of 2 black pilots, with stereotype Black names, who'd never flown before, and then he posed the question, "You ask yourself, are they qualified?", i dont know the rules of affirmative action in the US but can they appoint people of racial minorities who arent suitably qualified to positions of responsibility like airline pilots?, i'm not saying CK was racist, just that he used race to publicise himself and sensationalise an issue to provoke extreme reactions, which he used to propel himself from relative obscurity to national prominence in a short space of time, but in so doing inflamed an already tense and volatile racial situation in the US.

If Kyle Rittenhouse was a black female lesbian, he would have invited him. This is a fact that needs to sink in. You are nit picking and seemingly completely and utterly blind to it.

You certainly seem to have a personal bias with him, what is it?

At the moment its hard enough keeping up to date with posts in this thread, but when this runs its course, i will look at the other thread, be patient.

So tell me the "whole truth", tell me what you believe Christ was trying to say.

I fully explain it here - Are Christians to judge others?

And how do you know that youre "saved", Christ talks of many that claim to be his followers but to whom he will say, "i know you not" Matthew 7 21-23.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

2 Cor 3:15 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?

I explain here what a Christian is:

Thread 'What is a Christian and how do you become one?'

Nov 15, 2022

A Christian is best defined by John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A Christian is the 'whomsoever' will believe in Jesus. Now, nobody can believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is the Messiah, God of the universe Isa 9:6, without some help. The bible tells us in Matt 16:16-17 and 1 Cor 12:3, that a revelation from above / the Holy Spirit is necessary. It is completely impossible to believe Jesus is Lord without a revelation from the Holy Spirit 1...

• KingJ
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Bible Study

Thread 'So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!'

Oct 29, 2024

This OP consists of:

Section 1 - Venting
Section 2 - Explaining what a Christian is
Section 3 - Concluding argument

Section 1 - Venting:

I am so tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! It has been suggested that Judas was a Christian. That a Christian can lose their salvation if they make mistakes just before they die. Or that God cherry picks some humans and makes them Christians.

When these statements are made it is crystal clear to me that A - The individual has no clue as to what a Christian is and B - The individual has no clue as to who God is.

Now, none of...

• KingJ
• Replies: 196
• Forum: Questions about Christianity

Christ talks of many that claim to be his followers but to whom he will say, "i know you not" Matthew 7 21-23.

Yes, key word is 'claim'. Paul says they are 'Christians so called' 1 Cor 5:11 and that anyone who 'continues unrepentant in sin' 1 Cor 6:9-12 is most certainly not a Christian.

If you read the two links I gave you above, you will see that scripture is clear that a Christian is a new creation who will not continue unrepentant in sin.

 

[KingJ]

And you think stoning is a "swift and graphic death", have you ever seen a stoning, seems to me if would be anything but swift, and you say

God always 'ordains' a swift death. Sure, not 'instant'. But, yes, certainly swift.

The Judicial Process Leading to Stoning​

Before any execution, a trial occurred in a court of 23 judges (a Sanhedrin of sorts for capital cases). Key steps:

• Accusation and Witnesses: The crime required two valid witnesses (eyewitnesses who had warned the offender beforehand). False witnesses faced the same punishment.
• Court Deliberation: The trial began with arguments for acquittal. A majority verdict for guilt was needed, but if even one judge advocated mercy, a retrial was required. Convictions were intentionally rare— the Talmud states a court that executes once in 70 years is "destructive."
• Pronouncement: If guilty, the verdict was announced publicly from the Temple's eastern gate, specifying the crime and punishment.

Elders (senior judges or community leaders) were indeed present and oversaw the entire process. Deuteronomy 17:5–7 mandates that "the elders of the city" bring the offender to the execution site and initiate the act, symbolizing communal responsibility. The Mishnah (Sanhedrin 6:1–4) details that the court appoints two executioners (often strong men) under the elders' supervision.

The Execution Procedure​

The stoning was designed to be swift, not prolonged, aiming for near-instant death to minimize suffering. It was not a drawn-out ordeal like some ancient practices (e.g., Roman crucifixions). The Talmud (Sanhedrin 45a–b) explicitly critiques excessive cruelty, and the method reflects this. Here's the step-by-step process from the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 6:1–7):

1. Preparation of the Site: The offender was taken to a location "twice the height of a man" (about 10–12 feet) outside the city, often a cliff or elevated rocky area for the initial drop.
2. Initial Drop: The executioners pushed the offender off the height, face-first, onto a hard surface below. If this broke the neck and caused instant death (as intended), the execution ended immediately.
3. Stoning if Necessary: If the offender survived the fall (e.g., landed on hands/feet), the witnesses threw the first stones—large ones, about the size of a hand's span (talith, roughly 8–10 inches across), heavy enough to kill quickly. The Mishnah specifies these as "stones sufficient to kill but not to obliterate" (Sanhedrin 6:3), ensuring lethality without excessive mutilation. The crowd then joined in with additional stones until death was confirmed.
4. Verification of Death: A doctor or court official checked for signs of life (e.g., heartbeat). The body was left unburied overnight as a deterrent (Deuteronomy 21:23), then buried the next day in a common grave for executed criminals.

The entire process was meant to last minutes, not hours or days. Rabbinic texts stress that the goal was death, not pain—e.g., the Talmud (Sanhedrin 52b) lists stoning as one of four "merciful" execution methods.

 

[KingJ]

"society cannot live with such sinners", but we are ALL sinners, or do you feel you have cast sin out of your life?,

We are all sinners but there is a world of difference between the following:

A. Repentant and unrepentant sinners
B. Mortal and venial sin.

A repentant sinner will always try make right their wrong. And hate sin as Rom 12:9 and James 4:8 says we should. It should be impossible for a Christian / repentant sinner to commit, let alone continue in mortal sin.

We can discuss this specific topic further here - Degrees of sin - Poll

Christ calls those that believe they can judge others as "hypocrites" and tells them to "take the log out of their own eyes" before they condemn others, or perhaps you also fell youve taken the log out of your eye as well?.

Many mortal sinners purposely misread that passage from Jesus. I better explain the context of what Jesus is saying here - Are Christians to judge others?

I somehow dont think you'd feel that if you had to endure it, but yes the punishment of Hell is forever, so we all need to examine our actions and beliefs and not just follow what suits us best irrespective of Christs teachings, else we too may be

Paul doesn't just teach us to ''examine our actions and beliefs''. He says ''work out your salvation in fear and trembling'' Phil 2:12.

We need to be TERRIFIED of misrepresenting scripture to the lost. TERRIFIED of living in and condoning those who do sin.

Rom 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

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You read a verse on judgement completely out of its context. The LGBTQ+++ community do this consistently to excuse the sin they want to live in. If someone knows scripture well and does this, I fear for them and the day they will stand alone before God of the universe.