Changing the Bible

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Anyone who feels like not "doing it at all" just does not understand and / or have a relationship with God.

Greetings,
I would not be so quick to make a judgment like that.
The above would be a short coming or an area where they need growth.
How then can you quickly say they don't have a relationship with God?

Yes sir I see you also said don't understand And Or.
Still we can not claim some one does not have a relationship with God - it is impossible for us to know what's in their heart.
Blessings

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings B-A-C @B-A-C

I'm sure there is a lot of truth in this. But not everything done in the name of "Christianity" is something Jesus Himself would have likely done.

Sending armies to the middle east to kill millions of infidels during the crusades? The "church" was behind this.
The enslavery and torture of the Spanish inquisition? The "church" was behind this.
Burning "witches" at the stake in colonial America? The "church" was behind this.

Is it possible native Americans were killed in the name of Christianity? No doubt some were.
But somewhere in the video above the line gets crossed, and this turns into anti-Christian propaganda.
"All" Christians... and "all Christian" beliefs are evil. This is exactly what the current agenda of the liberal government here is the US
are trying spread into the media and education systems here.

Christians are hateful... Christians are intolerant... ... and sometimes those accusations are correct.

On the other hand... God wasn't very tolerant about the giants, Canaanites, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 23,000 that worshiped the golden calf and
a few other races in the Bible. There are places in the Bible God told the Jews to kill even the women and infants, (every one of them) of their
enemies.

Where do you want to draw the line?

Jdg 21:10; And the congregation sent 12,000 of the valiant warriors there, and commanded them, saying, "Go and strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the little ones.
Jdg 21:11; "This is the thing that you shall do: you shall utterly destroy every man and every woman who has lain with a man."

1Sa 22:19; And he struck Nob the city of the priests with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and infants; also oxen, donkeys, and sheep he struck with the edge of the sword.

Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

Yes. Thank you for your feedback.
I suppose if you or I (and families) were at the receiving end of what was apparently a good christian thing that ruthlessly slaughtered all your people, you might have second thoughts about happily joining their congregation, too?
I am aware that there would have been those who opposed the slaughter/attempted genocide and the general way in which the Native Americans were treated (mis-treated) but for the purpose here in this topic on this thread, we are left guessing as to what version was being read and what the problem was with understanding it. Was it the version or the ways of carnality? Most would scream out, "NOT THE VERSION!!", understandably. Are there specific verses that might have been leant upon to justify the atrocities? I suppose we could do the same with any version?

As for using the examples set out for us in the Old Testament part of the Bible, do you think that because that is what happened then, we have liberty under the New Covenant to do likewise? Is it OK to go kill; do you think the LORD would order us to do that again?
(these are not questions directed at you, B-A-C. but questions they are, given the mindset of both professing Christians and non-believers regarding some difficult or yet unanswered questions)
Perhaps it would not have made any difference what version was being read?
Perhaps it is simply a case of pulling a few verses out to justify? Or maybe simply turning aside from the Scripture (regardless of which version) and doing dirty work - while still going to church and singing hymns?

I know for certain that I would not have wanted to be one of those who endured the horrors shown in the video all the while trying to work out why...

One thing I noticed was the love of money or material gain.
Do you think that maybe some versions are now watered down to justify or hide the cruelty of past KJV people? Strange question but I am happy to ask it.

Bottom line is, do you think that any version matters if the people who read it ignore the common thread within it's pages?

thanks again for your reply.


Bless you ....><>

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
That, ultimately, is the result. Perhaps some things in Scripture are in the too hard basket, so 'changing' a bit here and bit there makes it not only easier for us to have excuse but also can 'make it more attractive' to the world? Little do those who desire to make the Church and the Scriptures more attractive know that it is the Sword and the Rock that people actually want to hear whether they realise it or not. An inward desire to be put on the right track accepts a 'hard-line' Gospel.

Amen.

When was the 'first time'? We talk here about English versions. There are also many other language versions available for peoples from non-english speaking countries. Every translation aims (or should do) at bringing and giving the Scripture in one's language.
A lot of the discussion about the Bible being changed is quite limited because we usually forget that there are many languages in the world.
As for God 'being responsible' {paraphrase}, you said that, not me. Sometimes people are very keen or zealous. That does not mean that that equates to doing that which is right. Take, for example, the man Saul of Tarsus, who later, after conversion, spoke of his zeal... in not only being a man who chased hard after everything he knew was required of him under the Law but also how that overflowed to persecuting Christians!

I see your point concerning other language bibles. but I have faith that anyone who really wants to serve God will be given by God that which will be able to ensure it.
You misunderstood the context of the "paraphrase" you cite.

is that a hint of doubt I read?

Yes, doubt that it correlated to your POV.

We all are entitled to think that we are entitled to have our opinion and thereby comment about those things that we think we have a right to do so. Whether that equates to sin or not I am not going to judge.

Why would thinking we have a right to comment on our opinion be a sin?
Isn't that the point of the forum?

Scripture does make it plain when telling that God would give them over to their carnal desires and evil ways. Therefore to make a judgement about the reason why people do what they do can sometimes border on error. A symptom perhaps but not always the cause.

It is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." ((1 Corinthians 2:15)
I thank God for making me a spiritual man who can judge rightly.

 

[At Peace]

I'm sure there is a lot of truth in this. But not everything done in the name of "Christianity" is something Jesus Himself would have likely done.
Sending armies to the middle east to kill millions of infidels during the crusades? The "church" was behind this.
The enslavery and torture of the Spanish inquisition? The "church" was behind this.
Burning "witches" at the stake in colonial America? The "church" was behind this.
Is it possible native Americans were killed in the name of Christianity? No doubt some were.
But somewhere in the video above the line gets crossed, and this turns into anti-Christian propaganda.
"All" Christians... and "all Christian" beliefs are evil. This is exactly what the current agenda of the liberal government here is the US
are trying spread into the media and education systems here.
Christians are hateful... Christians are intolerant... ... and sometimes those accusations are correct.
On the other hand... God wasn't very tolerant about the giants, Canaanites, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 23,000 that worshiped the golden calf and
a few other races in the Bible. There are places in the Bible God told the Jews to kill even the women and infants, (every one of them) of their
enemies.
Where do you want to draw the line?
Jdg 21:10; And the congregation sent 12,000 of the valiant warriors there, and commanded them, saying, "Go and strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the little ones.
Jdg 21:11; "This is the thing that you shall do: you shall utterly destroy every man and every woman who has lain with a man."
1Sa 22:19; And he struck Nob the city of the priests with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and infants; also oxen, donkeys, and sheep he struck with the edge of the sword.
Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

Those who do contrary to God's wishes are not Christians.

 

[Dave M]

Those who do contrary to God's wishes are not Christians.

What exactly are Gods wishes?

you mean like when someone is rude to another person??

you mean when someone insist on his way?

you mean when someone makes statements and claim if you do not belive them you make God a Liar?

 

[Br. Bear]

@At Peace

Greetings,

You misunderstood the context of the "paraphrase" you cite.

No, I don't think so. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough (which can happen with me [I'm not always inclined to spoon feed adults!).
I am replying to this only for clarity and in order for you to understand what I meant if {which it appears to be so} I didn't use words appropriate for your ability to hear them {my words, that is. Any fault is my inability to communicate clearly, not yours for not being able to understand what I mean by my use of words} You wrote,

Indeed, but if God was the one in charge of interpretations and collations the first time, why should we think He would now be "repairing" His word?

What I meant was that IF....
in other words, who said He was, in the first place? So, why should we think He would now be "repairing" His word? it all revolves around the word you used prior to that... but if God was the one in charge of interpretations and collations the first time,... if. Maybe I did misunderstand the context? Sorry if i did.

Yes, doubt that it correlated to your POV.

referring to...

(so perhaps neither is a good example to correlate to your line of thought.).

OK. Thank you for helping me understand what you meant.

The following quoted from my post that you then replied to was under a line that was my inadequate way of making a mark [the line] so that the bit under the line was a general comment to everyone. I appreciate that you replied concerning that but please understand that I was not singling you out in what I wrote. Rather, it is and was meant for all to think about.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow we get the notion that we have exclusive rights to many things under heaven to claim as our own. Yes, we are Kings and Priests, a royal priesthood in fact. However, we are still under the King of kings and the High Priest.
One thing we don't do well is to talk of our opinions and possessions and most everything as it really is.
Any idea what I am talking about? (hint: bought with a price)

We all are entitled to think that we are entitled to have our opinion and thereby comment about those things that we think we have a right to do so. Whether that equates to sin or not I am not going to judge.

Why would thinking we have a right to comment on our opinion be a sin?
Isn't that the point of the forum?

Scripture does make it plain when telling that God would give them over to their carnal desires and evil ways. Therefore to make a judgement about the reason why people do what they do can sometimes border on error. A symptom perhaps but not always the cause.

It is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." ((1 Corinthians 2:15)
I thank God for making me a spiritual man who can judge rightly.

Judgement relating to why people would re-translate the Scriptures and do so with omissions and changing meanings etc OR judging if God had sent them a strong delusion, giving them over to their evil desires, which would mean that the reason why they would re-write the translation(s) would be out of their control?
I have noticed that those who seek the LORD and incline their ear unto Him do not have any trouble hearing Him and what He teaches.

As for being spiritual and judging, is that not more to do with the office of a priest? [another thread coming soon, Lord be willing]

If you will excuse me, you replied to Nick @Christ4Ever

When "perfect" is translated as "adequate", I have qualms.

and I noticed on another thread you said, concerning your car....

Example...My car is perfect.
But it needs a muffler.
Even with its needs, it performs its intended duties without fail.
While it perfectly serves its purpose, other aspects of it may not be perfect in the grand scale.

I am glad your car serves you adequately!


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Dave,

What exactly are Gods wishes?

I didn't know God had any wishes.

to quote a songwriter Eric Bogel, If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets in the sea.

We all need to seek after the wisdom of God and not lean on our own understanding. As I attempted to point out in my last post, if and when God sends a strong delusion and gives some over to their evil desires [which He said He would] that tends to change the whole picture.
There are many other instances we can consider in Scripture that indicate that the ways of God are not our ways, which can be understood in relation to what happens in our life/lives. We may not exactly know at the time but in searching, in seeking, we do know.
For example, if someone is doing something you don't like, is it entirely their doing or is it a Godsend to us to not only practice being perfect but also to show the glory of God in Christ Jesus the Lord, Whose we are. Are the prompts that we don't like opportunities for greater things, for example, Joseph sold as a slave. Whose wish or will was in all that? Joseph said that God meant it for good. we have a hard time getting our head around that when it is our turn, sometimes. {I do, anyway, being a slow learner}

And what of the many Miracles that Jesus did. Did He look for them or was there something going on in the background we mostly overlook because 1) we are not aware of it and 2) because nobody preaches it?

I personally don't go for God wishing, as such, only because the word, 'wishing' is understood by me in my own way and that doesn't equal (in my understanding) anything that God would do.
Some people think i am strange... does that make me a stranger? (DCTalk)


Bless you ....><>

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
No, I don't think so. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough (which can happen with me [I'm not always inclined to spoon feed adults!).
I am replying to this only for clarity and in order for you to understand what I meant if {which it appears to be so} I didn't use words appropriate for your ability to hear them {my words, that is. Any fault is my inability to communicate clearly, not yours for not being able to understand what I mean by my use of words} You wrote,

No problem.
The reason we have a "reply" button is to come to a consensus on ideas posted here.

What I meant was that IF....
in other words, who said He was, in the first place? So, why should we think He would now be "repairing" His word? it all revolves around the word you used prior to that... but if God was the one in charge of interpretations and collations the first time,... if. Maybe I did misunderstand the context? Sorry if i did.

I say God was in charge of the KJV's interpretation.
It seems to me that some, those looking for new versions of the bible, don't believe God was in charge of the KJV we have been using for 400 years.
"If" they did believe it, their further research for a further interpretation of the bible denies that faith.

The following quoted from my post that you then replied to was under a line that was my inadequate way of making a mark [the line] so that the bit under the line was a general comment to everyone. I appreciate that you replied concerning that but please understand that I was not singling you out in what I wrote. Rather, it is and was meant for all to think about.

I couldn't find which post you now reference, but all is OK with me to you.

Somehow we get the notion that we have exclusive rights to many things under heaven to claim as our own. Yes, we are Kings and Priests, a royal priesthood in fact. However, we are still under the King of kings and the High Priest.
One thing we don't do well is to talk of our opinions and possessions and most everything as it really is.
Any idea what I am talking about? (hint: bought with a price)

When you stop and recognize that the "we" in Christ are no longer a factor of "mine" and "my".
It is Christ in us who "owns" all, and uses our vessels to manifest His glory, and the Father's,
Jesus said..." I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30)
Shouldn't "our" lives echo that sentiment?

Judgement relating to why people would re-translate the Scriptures and do so with omissions and changing meanings etc OR judging if God had sent them a strong delusion, giving them over to their evil desires, which would mean that the reason why they would re-write the translation(s) would be out of their control?
I have noticed that those who seek the LORD and incline their ear unto Him do not have any trouble hearing Him and what He teaches.

Whether or not God has deluded the neointerpretors or not, He can use the wicked to further His own goals.
That goal may remain hiddenfrom us till we can ask Jesus about it at His table in paradise.

As for being spiritual and judging, is that not more to do with the office of a priest? [another thread coming soon, Lord be willing]

If it does, as you wrote earlier, "we" are priests now.

If you will excuse me, you replied to Nick @Christ4Ever
and I noticed on another thread you said, concerning your car....
I am glad your car serves you adequately!
Bless you ....><>

Perfectly, in fact. (Though it was merely an example)