can you be a believer and not a disciple

[KingJ]

The thing is.. we are all born dead. That's why we have to be born again. (do innocent babies go to heaven is another topic).
Without Jesus, there is no paradise, no heaven in the after-life. Some people think it's all about us and what we "deserve" and
what we are entitled to. We aren't entitled to anything. The only thing we deserve is death. If you've ever sinned, you deserve death. (Rom 6:23; )

There is a huge difference between ''death'' and eternal hell in the lake of fire.

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm I wouldnt say we are all born dead but we are all born in the flesh which will eventually decay and die, unless we have the spirit.

Jesus wants to save us so we will not perish to give us His spirit which is eternal life, if we will repent and turn to Him.

Many people dont or refuse to see and sadly it will be too late for them. They think they already have their reward in life now but they forfeit heaven. Ecclesiates is a book written for those cynical worldly wise people. What does it profit a man if he gains the entire world yet loses his soul?

 

[HisFollower]

[for me anyway] no you cannot, because the only way we may know the Truth, and the only way the Truth can make us free is exactly only if we continue in Christ's Words. therefore if we believe without continuing in His Words, then we are believing without knowing the Truth, and believing without having the Truth making us free. We then would be in the midst of believing a lie, for the Truth is not a one time matter we must only receive once, otherwise Christ would not have said only if we continue in His Words; He would have rather said if we have heard His Words once, then that is enough to keep us knowing the Truth, and that is enough to keep the Truth making us free: but it is not. A true believer is Christ's disciple, and Christ's disciple is His believer: one is not without the other: such an idea is an idea brought forth by a love for mankind's use of knowledge otherwise known as philosophy.

 

[B-A-C]

There is a huge difference between ''death'' and eternal hell in the lake of fire.

In a way you are right, but everyone dies a physical death. Not everyone dies a "second death".

Rev 2:11; He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

So what exactly IS the second death?

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Plain and simple... if your name isn't in the BOL, you go into the lake of fire.. which is the second death.
No exceptions.

Rev 21:8; But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[B-A-C]

Hmm I wouldnt say we are all born dead but we are all born in the flesh which will eventually decay and die, unless we have the spirit.

Your flesh will will die and decay even if you do "have the spirit".

1 Cor 15:35; But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”
1 Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
1 Cor 15:37; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1 Cor 15:38; But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
1 Cor 15:39; All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
1 Cor 15:40; There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
1 Cor 15:41; There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

1 Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1 Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

Your fleshly body you have now isn't the one you get after you are resurrected.

 

[amadeus2]

Good replies Amadeus. I can agree with all you have said. Sorry If I come across too confrontational. You know how it is with the younger generation :wink:.

Yes, my friend, I was once younger myself.

Give God the glory and I will see you around the forum.

 

[Lanolin]

Your flesh will will die and decay even if you do "have the spirit".

1 Cor 15:35; But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”
1 Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
1 Cor 15:37; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1 Cor 15:38; But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
1 Cor 15:39; All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
1 Cor 15:40; There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
1 Cor 15:41; There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

1 Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1 Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

Your fleshly body you have now isn't the one you get after you are resurrected.

Yes but we are not reincarnated in a completely different body like hindus believe. Jesus was resurrected and he was in his body as well being the Head of the spiritual body of Christ (us believers). He still had the scars of the nails on his hands and feet. Thomas could touch him, he was a not a ghost. Jesus was bodily resurrected, if you dont believe that then your faith is in vain. We will all be made new but we wont be someone else!!! When you sow a grain of wheat it does not grow into a pea.

 

[Sue J Love]

I guess the question is... does it sit well with God?

Almost every single parable Jesus taught requires participation. Just about every one.
The talents require investing.. (either money, time or both). The sheep and goats require giving.
The pearl of great price requires searching. The prodigal son requires returning to the Father.
The faithful steward required being responsible with what was given to him. The story of the good Samaritan
requires giving and compassion. The parable of the 10 virgins virgins required filling your lamp with oil.
The parable of the unforgiving servant required giving forgiveness. The parable of the friend at night required
persistent prayer. The parable of the sower required either planting, or watering, or reaping. Even the mustard seed
in the parable of the mustard seed had to be sown. The parables of the lost coin and the lost sheep require repentance.
The parable of the tree in the masters vineyard required bearing fruit. The parable of the grain of wheat requires dying
to self. The parable of the rich fool (building grain houses for himself) required sharing and giving to others. The
parable of the workers in the field required ..umm.... working. The parables of the hidden treasure and the costly pearl require selling out to Jesus. The parable of the landowner who planted a vineyard required accepting the authority of his son and his inheritance.

Very very few of the parables Jesus told just required simply passively doing nothing.

Good stuff here! Thank you so much for sharing this.

 

[Sue J Love]

Bac you mind if I use that, I have a group on face book that is trying to tell me that luke warm people Jesus was talking to are saved

I was thinking of copying this myself and using it. @B-A-C - do I have your permission to copy this and use it some time?

 

[B-A-C]

I was thinking of copying this myself and using it. @B-A-C - do I have your permission to copy this and use it some time?

Sure, no problem.

 

[Lanolin]

Good news one of my friends actually came to church for the first time with me last Sunday.

She is one of those believers but not disciple people. Have been trying to persuade her to come and fellowship for over a year.

I hope that God continues to draw her, its so sad to see people that used to be on fire for the Lord let that fire die out.