Can only true Christians cast out demons?

[KingJ]

The point has been made by @Bill and @backNforth that one has to be a true Christian to cast out a demon, suggesting that Matthew 7:22–23 refers to fake Christians casting out fake demons

I disagree. We need to consider the below facts.

1. Matthew 7 shows real works done by people not known by Christ

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Note how this verse does not say: The wonderful works were not so wonderful, the prophecies were all false, all exorcisms were fake.

2. The name of Jesus is shown to have real effect even outside formal discipleship

Mark 9:38-40 Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

This verse unlocks part of the mystery. ''Whoever is not against us is for us''.

3. The New Testament shows both success and failure using the name of Jesus outside saved status

Acts 19:13-16 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

This passage needs to be contrasted with Mark 9:38-40. What did unsaved person A have that unsaved person B did not? It seems to be God's approval. God's will. It was His will to work with the one unsaved person and not the other.

4. The New Testament expands the reach of Jesus’ authority after the cross

Acts 1:8 “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.''
John 14: 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Christians receive the power of the Holy Spirit. Demons recognise and see a true Christian. They will never ask ''who are you''. They know the power of the Holy Spirit. As does a Christian. Therefore, a scenario we are all too familiar with is exorcisms taking place in a Holy Spirit filled church. Whether the visiting preacher is truly saved or not would be mostly irrelevant. Those poor demons would have wanted to leave the possessed person long before even stepping foot inside the church.

Conclusion:

Casting out demons is not proof of salvation. Scripture shows it can occur outside a true relationship with Christ, but only where God permits, not as something anyone can control at will.

-----------------------------------

Extra point for consideration:

Before Pentecost, the disciples relied on prayer (and fasting) in moments like Mark 9:29. Afterward, authority comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8). As Christians we should not need to fast and pray before an exorcism. Only ensure that we are in fact a Christian operating with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bill]

The point has been made by @Bill and @backNforth that one has to be a true Christian to cast out a demon, suggesting that Matthew 7:22–23 refers to fake Christians casting out fake demons

I disagree. We need to consider the below facts.

1. Matthew 7 shows real works done by people not known by Christ

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Note how this verse does not say: The wonderful works were not so wonderful, the prophecies were all false, all exorcisms were fake.

2. The name of Jesus is shown to have real effect even outside formal discipleship

Mark 9:38-40 Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

This verse unlocks part of the mystery. ''Whoever is not against us is for us''.

3. The New Testament shows both success and failure using the name of Jesus outside saved status

Acts 19:13-16 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

This passage needs to be contrasted with Mark 9:38-40. What did unsaved person A have that unsaved person B did not? It seems to be God's approval. God's will. It was His will to work with the one unsaved person and not the other.

4. The New Testament expands the reach of Jesus’ authority after the cross

Acts 1:8 “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.''
John 14: 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Christians receive the power of the Holy Spirit. Demons recognise and see a true Christian. They will never ask ''who are you''. They know the power of the Holy Spirit. As does a Christian. Therefore, a scenario we are all too familiar with is exorcisms taking place in a Holy Spirit filled church. Whether the visiting preacher is truly saved or not would be mostly irrelevant. Those poor demons would have wanted to leave the possessed person long before even stepping foot inside the church.

Conclusion:

Casting out demons is not proof of salvation. Scripture shows it can occur outside a true relationship with Christ, but only where God permits, not as something anyone can control at will.

-----------------------------------

Extra point for consideration:

Before Pentecost, the disciples relied on prayer (and fasting) in moments like Mark 9:29. Afterward, authority comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8). As Christians we should not need to fast and pray before an exorcism. Only ensure that we are in fact a Christian operating with the Holy Spirit.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

You do not understand the scripture. It is because you believe that once you are saved , you are always saved. That is a delusion. Only someone who is in the Lord can expell demons. You of your own volition can not remove demons, they will laugh at you.

We see what Jesus tells us, a man who once was in God, who expelled demons, betreys Jesus. The person whose name was once written in the book of life threw it away. He gave it away for a bowl of stew, he betreys Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, he denies Jesus 3 times without seeking the Mercey of Jesus.

 

[joestue]

You of your own volition can not remove demons, they will laugh at you.

even as a christian, the demons we let affect us, through persistent sin, we cannot cast out or bind, until we repent and ask forgiveness. -this is what makes it so difficult for some, like the homeless "skitzophrenic" to regain sanity, often to the point outside intervention is required, as Jesus showed us.

once at a church camp retreat i mentioned to a pastor that its plainly obvious that Paul's thorn in the flesh was a demon, as the text says a messenger from satan, because God was keeping his own advice in proverbs not to rebuke a conceited man. as in, by definition a conceited man will not believe he is conceited. so Paul thought the demon was to keep him from being conceited when he actually was, and i mentioned this i know this by experience.

pastor looks at me like i'm stupid and says "yes you have a different one"

 

[joestue]

However on a second note, i have heard detailed descriptions of how false spirits enslave the so called "shaman"

The way it works is the demons give the human power in exchange for control over their life, to the point of destroying their health or even killing them, if they don't give into the commands. this includes finding a successor to pass the shaumen spirits onto.

So back in 2016 or so I started hearing the word "blackmail" with regard to someone.. and later in late 2019 and early 2020, when i thought i was finally done praying for her, the last two demons i saw well, she had them on a leash, not the other way around. I don't know what exactly she had to give up to get those contracts, but lets just say, in a dream once i saw what i can only describe as a statue of molech, and it had 3 red cord-necklaces around its neck. I presumed at the time this meant she had had 3 abortions.


so, yes, there are likely situations where a person can get a demon removed by another person with contracts with demons, but its a demonic contract and that persons life will not actually improve, they will have to lose something, or trade some affliction for another. -or one demon for another.

and because their sin is not forgiven, there's nothing preventing those contracts from being re-written, modified, interpreted harshly, etc, etc.

 

[Bill]

even as a christian, the demons we let affect us, through persistent sin, we cannot cast out or bind, until we repent and ask forgiveness. -this is what makes it so difficult for some, like the homeless "skitzophrenic" to regain sanity, often to the point outside intervention is required, as Jesus showed us.

once at a church camp retreat i mentioned to a pastor that its plainly obvious that Paul's thorn in the flesh was a demon, as the text says a messenger from satan, because God was keeping his own advice in proverbs not to rebuke a conceited man. as in, by definition a conceited man will not believe he is conceited. so Paul thought the demon was to keep him from being conceited when he actually was, and i mentioned this i know this by experience.

pastor looks at me like i'm stupid and says "yes you have a different one"

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

It is true that if you are a Christian that without faith and without God's love you cannot cast out a demon either.

You can be a Christian and not have faith in God, that is not have full faith in God. And you can be a Christian and not love as God wants us to love.

 

[joestue]

It is true that if you are a Christian that without faith and without God's love you cannot cast out a demon either.

so i have learned by experience as well that you cannot pray for a person in effective power until you come to a righteous perspective of the situation yourself.

you can be outraged all you want at the supposed injustice of a situation and pray about it, but God is not looking for our primal emotions to be the motivator of our actions.

 

[backNforth]

Your beginning:

The point has been made by @Bill and @backNforth that one has to be a true Christian to cast out a demon, suggesting that Matthew 7:22–23 refers to fake Christians casting out fake demons

I disagree.

...and your ending, which is a non sequitur...

Conclusion:

Casting out demons is not proof of salvation. Scripture shows it can occur outside a true relationship with Christ, but only where God permits, not as something anyone can control at will.

Plenty of ppl want that power; some have even tried to buy that power (e.g. Simon the sorcerer, Acts 8).

A true deliverance requires a true believer. Meanwhile, there are lots of fakirs out there. There will always be "fake Christians casting out fake demons."

And as far as your comment about "not as something anyone can control at will," deliverance is NOT a power trip - can never be a power trip - to be effective. SELF-WILL has ZERO PLACE in any deliverance. The HS does the heavy lifting, through a sanctified vessel.

Christians receive the power of the Holy Spirit. Demons recognise and see a true Christian. They will never ask ''who are you''.

That naivete is what the devils are scanning for. Rather, the HS is THE STARTING POINT necessary to begin to engage in effective spiritual warfare. A devil knows whether you are a mere bench warmer/newbie or a sanctified and battle-wise vessel. If you're not actively pursuing righteousness - as an unbeliever or a believer - then you pose no threat and Satan will proceed accordingly. A weak believer may very well hear the taunt, "Who are you?" (as the chief priest Sceva and his seven sons did - Acts 19:14-16).

Plenty of spiritualist churches do a lot of "casing out" but such "deliverances" are mere lying wonders intended to ultimately deceive. Same with the Catholic version aka "exorcism." Those wannabees are like clouds without rain i.e. worthless iconoclastic pageantry, powerless, even as the devils mock.

The HS is required for a genuine deliverance. And because sanctification has become such a big ask these days, the vast majority of ppl remain powerless to cast out devils. Absent the HS, it's always fun-and-games time for devils e.g. a greater devil may throw a lesser devil under the bus to fake you out.

This passage needs to be contrasted with Mark 9:38-40. What did unsaved person A have that unsaved person B did not? It seems to be God's approval. God's will. It was His will to work with the one unsaved person and not the other.

No, the unifying glue that binds them all together, regardless if they are physically present with each other or not, is in red bold:

Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

There is no requirement for others, who would cast out devils, to follow the disciples around. The requirement is to act "in thy name."

All is one - in the name of the Lord.

As Christians we should not need to fast and pray before an exorcism.

Deliverance ministers don't do "exorcisms"; such is a Catholic term.

We are not perfect/sinless as Jesus was sinless/perfect. So we will always need to deal wisely with our flesh while we remain in this fallen world. Both prayer and fasting become essential spiritual warfare weapons:

Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation (Mark 14:38).
Don't walk according to the flesh (Romans 8:1).
Don't make provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13:14).
etc.

 

[Bill]

so i have learned by experience as well that you cannot pray for a person in effective power until you come to a righteous perspective of the situation yourself.

you can be outraged all you want at the supposed injustice of a situation and pray about it, but God is not looking for our primal emotions to be the motivator of our actions.

May Jesus fill us with His love and wisdom.

We should never jump to conclusions when it comes to prayer. God always uses prayer. There are some whose prayer that are so weak that they are like pieces of hay as weight with God, yet every prayer does have substance. Others love can be so great as to move mountains.

There is always room for improvement in all of us. Our faith in God is limited by how fertile our hearts are to God's love

 

[Bill]

Your beginning:

...and your ending, which is a non sequitur...

Plenty of ppl want that power; some have even tried to buy that power (e.g. Simon the sorcerer, Acts 8).

A true deliverance requires a true believer. Meanwhile, there are lots of fakirs out there. There will always be "fake Christians casting out fake demons."

And as far as your comment about "not as something anyone can control at will," deliverance is NOT a power trip - can never be a power trip - to be effective. SELF-WILL has ZERO PLACE in any deliverance. The HS does the heavy lifting, through a sanctified vessel.


That naivete is what the devils are scanning for. Rather, the HS is THE STARTING POINT necessary to begin to engage in effective spiritual warfare. A devil knows whether you are a mere bench warmer/newbie or a sanctified and battle-wise vessel. If you're not actively pursuing righteousness - as an unbeliever or a believer - then you pose no threat and Satan will proceed accordingly. A weak believer may very well hear the taunt, "Who are you?" (as the chief priest Sceva and his seven sons did - Acts 19:14-16).

Plenty of spiritualist churches do a lot of "casing out" but such "deliverances" are mere lying wonders intended to ultimately deceive. Same with the Catholic version aka "exorcism." Those wannabees are like clouds without rain i.e. worthless iconoclastic pageantry, powerless, even as the devils mock.

The HS is required for a genuine deliverance. And because sanctification has become such a big ask these days, the vast majority of ppl remain powerless to cast out devils. Absent the HS, it's always fun-and-games time for devils e.g. a greater devil may throw a lesser devil under the bus to fake you out.


No, the unifying glue that binds them all together, regardless if they are physically present with each other or not, is in red bold:

Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

There is no requirement for others, who would cast out devils, to follow the disciples around. The requirement is to act "in thy name."

All is one - in the name of the Lord.


Deliverance ministers don't do "exorcisms"; such is a Catholic term.

We are not perfect/sinless as Jesus was sinless/perfect. So we will always need to deal wisely with our flesh while we remain in this fallen world. Both prayer and fasting become essential spiritual warfare weapons:

Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation (Mark 14:38).
Don't walk according to the flesh (Romans 8:1).
Don't make provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13:14).
etc.

May Jesus fill us in His love and wisdom.

Even with the catholics, they too are part of that group Jesus states, "if they are with us, they are not against us."

Removal of evil is most effective though God's Love, it is what they rejected. Rejecting God is rejecting love.