Can a true Christian sin or not?

[Dave M]

2 Chronicles 6:36
“If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to a land far or near,

Romans 6:18
And, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:6
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[R. Roger Harris]

2 Chronicles 6:36
“If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to a land far or near,

Romans 6:18
And, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:6
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The Struggle Within
Romans 7:15-25, NIV
The apostle Paul makes our sin nature very clear in this passage, and he find this law at work within each of us, whether devout practicing Christians as well as unbelieving people in the world, even from the beginning of time.
“21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in my members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our Lord!”
Question: "Do Christians sin?"
Do Christians sin?
Answer: Before exploring, whether or not, Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7).

“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14).

However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.”(Romans 7:15-25) Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times. But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing (an important thought).

However, other passages clarify the boundaries of this ocean of grace. First John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” Verse 9 says that those who have been “born of God” will not continue to live sinfully. The implication is that this is not a matter of trying harder. Rather, it is the equivalent of saying, “A fish cannot remain on land for long because its nature is to seek water.” A fish could flop onto the shore and survive for a short time. But it was not made for land and cannot continue there. When we are born again, our natures change, and we cannot continue in sin. Christ not only erases our past sin; He also transforms our hearts so that we no longer desire it (Colossians 2:13–14).

Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2). Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior.

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring him to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God.

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT).

Recommended Resource: Experiencing the Cross: Your Greatest Opportunity for Victory Over Sin by Henry Blackaby

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave M,
Your scripture presented:

2 Chronicles 6:36
“If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to a land far or near,

This is before Jesus came and made an end of sin (Dan. 9:24).

Romans 6:18
And, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

This teaches believers have been liberated from the nature of sin and are slaves to God and not the devil. If you commit sin you are the slave to sin (John 8:34).

Romans 6:6
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

The previous verse tells us we have been made free from the enslavement of sin.

1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

This contradicts itself by man’s carnal interpretation. If you read the Greek for “cannot keep sinning” it does not say that. It only says, “cannot sin.” Whoever interpreted 1John 3:9 is in error. Also when you look at different versions of 1John 3:9 it varies on the interpretation but in most cases it say, “cannot sin” and varies on “does not practice” or “does not sin,” etc.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

The reason “sin will not have dominion over you” is because you are “under Grace” and not under the Law. Where sin abounds, Grace abounds more. You cannot see sin because of Grace. Just like you cannot see darkness in the light, you sin in the light. If you have sin it’s because you’re in darkness and have no light.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I’ve explained to you this applies only to unbelievers in chapter 1. You said John was talking to saved people. John said their sins are forgiven.

1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

We already have it for life.

 

[R. Roger Harris]

In another way, Christians sin is in their beliefs in many different denominations. The very word "denominationalism" is actually a synonym for division. In the world today there are nearly 40,000 different denominations. In sectarianism, there is no unity in name, organization, doctrine or practice. Yet the bible bears record that "variance, strife, seditions, heresies," the inevitable ingredients of denominationalism, are works of the flesh, and will prevent one from entering into heaven (Galatians 5:19-21).
Even the Ten Commandments in its first commandment says: "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. Reading in 2 Peter 1:20-21, it says: "(20)Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. (21) For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
And think about what scripture says in 1 Corinthians 6, "(19) Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own ; (20) You were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (NIV).

 

[regibassman57]

@R. Roger Harris,
Is this scritpure a principle of Christ?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Can God inherit corruption? Can God who is incorruptable dwell in a corruptable vessel?

 

[Dave M]

Romans 7:19–25

19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, cit is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[Dave M]

In Romans 7, starting in verse 14, the Apostle Paul says this:

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.

A lot of people say, “Well, obviously Paul is not talking about his life as a Christian. He’s going back and talking about before he became a Christian." But I don’t think that’s at all obvious when you look at the whole context of the book and this chapter. Because Paul goes on to say,

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

So he is describing someone who genuinely wants to do good, genuinely wants to please God, but who is a sinner. Paul sometimes, not always but sometimes, still sins. So then he goes on to say in verse 20:

20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

So you have someone in the larger context, who I believe wants to please God, who wants to do good, but he says, “nonetheless, evil is right there with me.” And here is where I think it becomes clear that this is speaking of a believer, not an unbeliever. He says in verse 22, “For in my inner being I delight in God’s law…

So does the unbeliever, in his inner being, delight in God’s law? I don’t think so. It just does not fit with what Scripture says. Read Romans 3 about the utter darkness of the one who doesn’t know Christ. Clearly the Paul who delights in God’s law (His Word and His ways) is not an unbeliever. He is speaking as a believer he is, not the unbeliever he once was.

22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

He doesn’t say “what a wretched man I was,” but “am.”

Paul is recognizing that in the future he is going to be delivered from the wrestling with the old sin nature. Yes, he is a new person in Christ. Absolutely. It’s not just a matter of two dogs who are in a fight within him and one has equal powers with the other.

We should recognize and live in accordance with our redeemed identity in Christ. Yes, we are cleansed. Yes, we are new in Him. Yes, we are covered by the righteousness of Christ. We are His saints, His holy ones. But there are three tenses of salvation: we have been saved, we are being sanctified, and we will be glorified. Glorification still awaits us, when we enter the presence of God. When glorification happens, there will be complete sinlessness. But until that time, we are still sinners. Sanctification is very real, but it is not the same as glorification. Sanctification means having great progress and victory in our battles with sin. But it does not mean sinless perfectionism. That is reserved for glorification, which awaits us in Christ’s presence, but is not the state we are in now.

Sinless Perfectionism - Blog - Eternal Perspective Ministries

 

[R. Roger Harris]

Romans 7:19–25

19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, cit is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Some contemporary churches are billed as “seeker-friendly,” but the Bible says that “no one seeks God.” Psalm 14:2–3 pictures God searching in vain for even one heart that seeks Him: “The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.” This passage is quoted in Romans 3:10–12, which says, “As it is written: ‘There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.’” So, if no one seeks God, who are the “seekers” that some churches strategize to attract? Plus, here’s a good thought, how are people saved if no one is seeking God?

First we must understand human nature. Because of Adam’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:11), sin entered the world and became part of human existence. Because Adam is the common ancestor of every human being, we all inherit that sin nature. We are born with a natural desire for rebellion, self-interest, and disobedience. In Romans 7:18, Paul says, “For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.” That goes for Christians and non-Christians alike. In ourselves, we cannot seek after God, for the simple reason that seeking God is a good and holy thing. Sinful flesh is incapable of good and holy things (Isaiah 64:6).

Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them” (John 6:44). In other words, the only way we can seek God is if the Holy Spirit has first stirred our hearts with a desire for God (its a coming to the end of ourselves). It is God who draws us to Himself. Ephesians 2:8 underscores this truth: “By grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God.” Even the faith to believe for salvation does not originate within our fleshly nature. God enables the fallen human heart to seek Him, when in our own self-centered rebellion, we would never do so. Every good thing originates with God (James 1:17). Faith in God is a good thing, and so it also originates with God.

Even our best efforts fall far short of the righteousness required by God (Romans 3:23). That’s why Scripture says that no one seeks God. We seek fulfillment. We seek pleasure. We seek escape from pain. But the pure motivation of seeking after God for Himself is a gift from God. We are not saved because we had the wisdom and insight to exercise our own faith and trust God. No one wakes up one day and, on his own, decides to seek God. That would be a salvation by our own works, and Scripture is clear we are saved only by the grace and mercy of God (Titus 3:5; Romans 11:6). We are saved when God touches our hearts and prompts us to use the faith He gives to receive His gift of salvation. Even with the knowledge of God’s existence everywhere, people naturally choose to “suppress the truth by their wickedness” (Romans 1:18–20).

Because no one naturally seeks God, God seeks us. He sought Adam and Eve as they hid in the Garden (Genesis 3:9), and He has been seeking His lost loved ones ever since. Jesus gave this as His mission statement: “The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost” (Luke 19:10).

In Jeremiah 29:13 God says, “You will seek me and you will find me, when you seek me with all your heart.” Is this a contradiction to those passages that say no one seeks God? We know that God first gives us faith. But we also have a free will. We decide what to do with the faith God gives. We can ignore it, we can misuse it by chasing after false gods, or we can receive it gladly and use it to embrace the gospel. When God says, we must seek Him with all our heart, we understand that He has taken the first step toward us. He has done all that is necessary for our salvation; the work is done at the cross, when He said it is finished. It is now up to us to engage our will and follow Him. The faith to seek Him is a gift, but we must accept it and exercise it to have a relationship with Him.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
You're sending scriptures without fully understanding the meaning.

The best way for you to know if a person understands what they're saying is to ask a question. You sending scriptures to me the way you do shows me you don't understand these scriptures.

I've asked you questions but you keep sending scriptures without answering questions. The scriptures you send don't answer the questions.

 

[Dovegiven]

A bit of reasoning here. Sometimes, probably more often than we are conscious of, Christians adopt an attitude or standing that opposes the mind of Christ. If we knew that was happening most of us would repent. Yet, we might have to be censured by a fellow believer. Take this case.
"Mark 8:28-33 (KJV)
28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men."

Some argue Peter wasn't saved yet until after Calvary, yet he confessed the true identity of Jesus as Christ of God. So he sinned, and again when he and all the other apostles stepped in it again in Mark 14, denying Jesus" plan, insisting none of them would deny Jesus before men. They all did. Now those men had spent their lives day by day ministering the gospel and doing miracles together, gaining disciples for Christ. They produced good fruit, yet fell back into sin occasionally.

After Calvary, after Pentecost, Peter is again found in sin. He had a habit of separating groups in fellowship. When the Jews came around no gentiles were mixed in. Extreme hypocracy! In and out of Satan?

"Galatians 2:11-14 (KJV)
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

Paul gave Peter quite a stern rebuke over that.

We all must have our minds renewed to know what the mind of Christ is in all things so we are not found a witting or unwitting sinner. That requires forever studying the scriptures, applying what we learn so it sticks.
It's why there are teachers to disciple babes in Christ. How many new believers with little or no knowledge of Christian living would any of us demand they never sin? It would be like a student on the first day of an algebra class missing a test problem, then being flunked out. No. Patience is employed, giving people chances to master the subject.

My aim is to settle the issue back to the conclusion of post #1. Yes, Christians sin. Maybe not deliberately so much, but I can think of dozens of areas of disobedience, such as the current trend of declining to assemble together in person to worship. Gluttony. Worry unto depression. Staying mad at some politician rather than praying effectively for them? Still got a grudge over a stolen inheritance? Not improving according to 2 Peter 1, et. al.? Not speaking up against murderous abortions?

If you see me sin you are supposed to follow this for me:
"1 John 5:16-17 (KJV)
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I understand everything your saying.
What is the meaning of "non-imputation of sin" to you?

 

[Dovegiven]

Even when a Christian is convinced an action is noble, excellent, righteous, and confirmed by trusted brethren, sometimes that can be sin because the action or thought is contrary to a revelation from God, i.e.apart from his will. People not knowing about the Holy Spirit and His ministry in them can be directed by Him anyway because they act on what little they do know from God. Sadly, conversely, many who are convinced they are filled with the Spirit continue on in a sin(s) uncorrected. The Church at Corinth was exposed (1 Cor 5) by Paul who learned of a member openly admitted to their assembly whose sin was fornication, possibly incestuous in nature. He ordered the Church to turn him over to Satan. Eventually the man repented and was to be restored to fellowship.

Yes, Christians can sin, and any who believe they don't sin in some way, perhaps not pleasing God with faith in some matter, is a sign they are self-deceived. Being self-deceived, it's highly unlikely that person will come to themselves unless corrected by a brother in Christ. That's just one great reason for believers to maintain a reasonably regular live fellowship with other Christians eye to eye, hand to hand, in the real world, supplemented by online fellowship. Its a matter of accountability. I met a man who needed some plumbing repair which didn't require a professional. While there I learned his "church" was online. His reason was he hated being judged in person for the odor of tobacco and alcohol released through his skin. Otherwise he "loves the Lord". I suggested while I would not judge about that, I objected to his hermit habit, not associating with other believers, just repairmen occasionally other than "mind to mind, the ultimate challenge online.".

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I'm not sure if your writting to anyone particular, but if you desire to help, as you said, "Being self-deceived, it's highly unlikely that person will come to themselves unless corrected by a brother in Christ." I guess you can be that brother if you understand what God's word says.
The knowledge you have can be edifying if it's according to scripture. I asked you a question in my last post; "What is the meaning of "non-imputation of sin" to you?"

If I asked Jesus directly He would tell me according to scritpure, this is what the body of Christ is about. I don't doubt that Christ is in you so I ask that you allow me your scriptural understanding of what non-imputation of sin means?

Many Christians believe that Jesus has taken away the punishment of sin, but did not take away sins. If you are the brother that can help me see what you and they are believing through scripture, I would appreciate you confirming this belief through scripture. It seems no one on this forum can or is willing to answer this question?

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
I understand everything your saying.
What is the meaning of "non-imputation of sin" to you?

You understand, and agree? Or are you referring to Puritan doctrine? I think that is too far off topic, and far from my response today. If you are going there, then please first respond to some of the former scriptures with a recognizable hermeneutical theme. If I were to pick one only it would be
"2 Peter 1:5-11 (KJV)
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

We've already seen enough of verses 1-4 over the years with the common omission of 5-11. It's a direct commandment concerning righteous works (fruit of the Spirit) unto a good finish.
I'd say the topic of non-imputation of sin should be in its own thread. Righteousness is not sinlessness. It is the position Christians are awarded on the basis of the one man Jesus correcting what the one man Adam caused for all humans. Our saving position is imputed through Christ. That doesn't heal the mind of believers. The mind requires deliberate regeneration to put the power of living free of sin in action. Without carrying out verses 5-11 throughout life we risk losing consciousness of righteousness, that precious standing with holy God, reverting to a sin-consciousness. Let's keep it simple.

 

[Dovegiven]

Enough has been said about this topic, over and over. I've found many threads here on the same topic. I support post #1 in this thread without need of further explanation. I don't like threads based on constant questions posed as answers, and avoidance of content of posts that offer actual replies. My earlier post a few days ago brought up 2 Peter as the approved "roadmap" to assurance of eternal security, never falling. You need to study that more then comment, for it has much to do with how God prepares us to practically live as overcomers of sin, not just in doctrine alone. Blessed is the one who does what he hears. Nothing personal. I don't know you. My comments are simply replies supporting the stand of post 1 in different ways, it being a topic of interest to many at different levels of scripture knowledge.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I understand what you’re saying regarding some Christians needing to be censured by fellow believers. And I do have a post out there on non-imputation of sins.

The topic of this post is, “Can true believers sin or not.” I asked you a pertinent question regarding this post, so I don’t understand why you choose not to give knowledge to edify?

"2 Peter 1:5-11 (KJV) has to do with putting on the character of Christ. I do agree that a believer’s past sins have been purged.

Your thoughts: “Righteousness is not sinlessness”- this is not scripturally based; and I will keep it simple.

You said: Righteousness is not sinlessness. It is the position Christians are awarded on the basis of the one man Jesus correcting what the one man Adam caused for all humans. Our saving position is imputed through Christ. That doesn't heal the mind of believers. The mind requires deliberate regeneration to put the power of living free of sin in action. Without carrying out verses 5-11 throughout life we risk losing consciousness of righteousness, that precious standing with holy God, reverting to a sin-consciousness. Let's keep it simple.

I’m sure you know, in Adam “all died” because all inherited Adam’s sin. I believe you also know, in Christ has “all” been made alive through faith. All that believe have inherited Christ’s Righteousness. Scriptures teach you cannot serve two masters. If you sin, you serve Satan (Eph.2:2) I’m sure you know every believer in Christ is a new creation and old things have passed away. What are the old things that have passed away? Hint: 2Peter 1:9; Hebrews 8:12

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@regibassman57

Since we are not perfect yet, as we strive to be perfect by looking to te author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race, a christian can still be tempted to sin and unfortunately as we are in this fallen flesh, we still sin BUT, with Jesus Christ in us, we all have hope that He will continue His work in us to destroy the works of the devil in our lives as well as forgive us of our sins to one day He brings us Home as perfect to never sin again.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. .....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The fact that Jesus taught His disciples this prayer should show that running that race by looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin is a race to run each day by faith in Him.

Matthew 10:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Did not Jesus teach His disciples this also?

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

So run that race b y faith in Him that sin will not have dominion over you as you live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by placing your confidence in Him to finish the race for you to His glory and to our praises of Him.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[regibassman57]

JesusIs4Me,
I don’t think you see what Christ has done for you. When you first came to Christ, He forgave you of “all” your sins “past,” because we know Christ died over 2000 years ago; “present” because we know that Christ died over 2000 years ago and future because we know that Christ died over 2000 years ago. The Grace of God spans beyond time. Two thousand years ago you were not thought of by man; but God thought of you and sent His son for your future sins telling you He will not remember your sins when you came to Him. Your future sins today has been taken away in God's sight. You are not seeing life through the sight of God Mercy or Righteousness.

You believe you are in the flesh, therefore, you believe that you are still in Adam. In Adam all sin. Jesus teaches there is no sin in Him (1John 3:5). You are not alive in Christ if you sin and you cannot jump in and out of the body of Christ serving two natures. You are either dead to the one and are alive to the other, or visa-versa. You cannot serve two masters.

The scriptures you gave speak of the term “sin,” but there is no principle rule regarding what sin is or how God views sin in His thoughts. I’ve asked questions that no one desires or appears they can answer. Sending me scriptures just because they used the word sin tells me you do not understand the verses and what’s truly being said.

You say we are not perfect yet. Once again you see yourself after the flesh. You believe you can be defiled with sin. Scripture teaches that your inner man cannot be corrupted; sin corrupts, that’s why God gave you a new heart and a new spirit that is incorruptible.

 

[bibleguy]

@Dovegiven,
I'm not sure if your writting to anyone particular, but if you desire to help, as you said, "Being self-deceived, it's highly unlikely that person will come to themselves unless corrected by a brother in Christ." I guess you can be that brother if you understand what God's word says.
The knowledge you have can be edifying if it's according to scripture. I asked you a question in my last post; "What is the meaning of "non-imputation of sin" to you?"

If I asked Jesus directly He would tell me according to scritpure, this is what the body of Christ is about. I don't doubt that Christ is in you so I ask that you allow me your scriptural understanding of what non-imputation of sin means?

Many Christians believe that Jesus has taken away the punishment of sin, but did not take away sins. If you are the brother that can help me see what you and they are believing through scripture, I would appreciate you confirming this belief through scripture. It seems no one on this forum can or is willing to answer this question?

Hello, here is a Biblically-grounded proof:

1. Sins incur God's wrath (1 Th. 2:16).
2. We believers are saved from wrath (1 Th. 5:9).
3. We believers are saved from the wrath (punishment) for sin (from 1 and 2).
4. The punishment for our sins has been taken away from us (from 3).
5. We sometimes know what is right to do (but nevertheless do wrong). [regibassman57 agrees, by his own confesion]
6. Knowing what is right to do, and not doing it, is sin (Jas. 4:17).
7. We sometimes sin (from 5 and 6).

There it is. Biblically-grounded proof that the punishment of sin has been taken away from us, even though we sometimes sin.

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
You wrote: "There it is. Biblically-grounded proof that the punishment of sin has been taken away from us, even though we sometimes sin."

I have never disputed about the punishment being taken away ever. I've always held to scriptural fact that Jesus has taken away sins; as well as the punishment equally. I have scriptural references saying exactly what Jesus has done concerning sin as I have said. You have not produced "ANY" scriptural reference in this month backing your claim that Jesus only took away the punishment. You cannot prove sin itself has not been taken away. I've showed you verbatim Jesus took away man's sins forever; but you cannot produce.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of "sin" AND "death."

"SIN AND DEATH" I know the question I've ask is very clear. You have no answer for the question I've ask because God's word is also very clear. Jesus took away the sins of the world. You desire for scripture to say, Jesus took away the punishment of the world "only" without taking away all the sins of the world; that's not what it says.

1Jo 3:5 And you know that Jesus was manifested to "take away our sins;" and in him is no sin.

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which "takes away the sin" of the world.

You will never find in scripture that Jesus "did not" take away "all" man's sins and only took away the punishment for sins.