Calvinism

[Cody]

My friend believes in Calvinism(God chooses an elect people to be save) and this is what he told me to back his belief up. Tell me your thoughts on this please.

Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

says you cant do good when you are used to doing evil

2 Timothy 2:25-26
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth and they may come to their senses
so you can't turn to God or be good on your own....God "may grant" you repentance and let you come to your senses

John 6:37 and 6:44

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

no one can come to Me unless the Father draws them
no can be saved unless God draws them..it says that
and all that come to Jesus WILL be saved
so if God draws you, you WILL be saved
so you cant say that you can say no when God draws you

Paul makes it clear in Romans 9 with Jacob and Esau that God didn't respect Jacob more than Esau.."for they had neither done good nor bad" God chose Jacob out of his sovereign will, and thats why Paul says "who are you to question God"

it specifically says in verse 11 that it was just by God's choice and "NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR WORKS" and if people say that God is not Just (verse 14) verse 15 says " I will have mercy on whoever I have mercy"
Paul was talking about election
he knew that by saying this, like about Jacob and Esau, that people would say that God is not just...that is why he said that in verse 14
like if i say God chose this person and He might not choose that person, you are going to say, "is God not just"
that HAS to be what he's talking about because he knew that question already

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

well in that verse you have to look at the word "willing"
if it was Gods' will for all to be saved...all would be saved
that word is better translated "wishes"


it also says that God takes to pleasure in the destruction of the wicked
and in romans 9 it tells us why, if it doesn't please God, that he lets people go to hell
it says "what if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make his power known, ENDURED WITH MUCH PATIENCE vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" romans 9:22
God lets people go to hell because is shows His power, and it also makes the elect appreciate His mercy even more
and that even says that they are prepared for destruction

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

the world as a whole and that verse is true....whoever believes will be saved...but the only ones that will believe are the elect...that goes back to those verses in John

 

[ladylovesJesus]

I found out this on the internet and Spurgeon also mentions the 5 points of Calvinism can be summarized with the letters TULIP.

God bless you.

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:


Question: "What is Calvinism and is it Biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism?"

Answer: The five points of Calvinism can be summarized with the letters TULIP. T stands for total depravity, U for unconditional election, L for limited atonement, I for irresistible grace, P for perseverance of the saints. Here are the definitions and Scripture references Calvinists use to defend their beliefs. Total Depravity = as a result of Adam’s fall the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18). Unconditional Election = Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30; 9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6,11-12).

Limited Atonement = Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and Christ died for will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25). Irresistible Grace = Those whom God elected and Christ died for, God draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37,44; 10:16). Perseverance of the Saints = The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

I believe that Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints are Biblical doctrines. Man is definitely sinful and incapable of believing in God on his own. God elects people based on His will alone – it is not based on any merit in the person chosen. All those whom God has chosen will come to faith. All those who are truly born-again will persevere in their faith. However, I do not believe that Limited Atonement is correct. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for the sins of the elect. “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). Other verses in opposition to limited atonement are John 1:29; 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:6; 2 Peter 2:1.

Please note - this article is only a brief summary of the five points of Calvinism.

from gotquestions.org

 

[Stylez4Christ]

Most Calvinist are very against the Pentecostal and the Charismatic churches. Mostly the gift of the Holy Spirit because they believed that those are not the gift from the holy spirit but they claim that it is from Satan.

See now I have an issues with that. Why?

Because now it sounds like that there giving satan a reward that he healing people and not God so I mean they backward or something? So I guest there being deceive by satan.

Here what the bible says because even a Godly person who deny the power from God is not God..

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Timothy 3:5

So I guest is wrong to give the devil to much Credit. Lets praise God that he heals all but I do believed the devil can heal or do such work that is similar to God because in some way satan is still an Angle so we can't forget about that so at the same time not as powerful as God and God is everywhere we go and this is God power is all around because is like the fire that spreading around acers of land is the samething with God that he is every where not satan but at the same time this is why satan has his army of demon but they don't have that power like God, "but a lying power (Satan)"

 

[Cody]

2 Peter 2:20
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." KJV

Do you guys think this verse teaches that we can be "unsaved"?

 

[ladylovesJesus]

From what I read in different versions here it is talking about those who knew Jesus and walked away.

2 Pet. 14 They commit adultery with their eyes, and their desire for sin is never satisfied. They lure unstable people into sin, and they are well trained in greed. They live under God’s curse. 15 They have wandered off the right road and followed the footsteps of Balaam son of Beor,[f] who loved to earn money by doing wrong. 16 But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.

17 These people are as useless as dried-up springs or as mist blown away by the wind. They are doomed to blackest darkness. 18 They brag about themselves with empty, foolish boasting. With an appeal to twisted sexual desires, they lure back into sin those who have barely escaped from a lifestyle of deception. 19 They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves of sin and corruption. For you are a slave to whatever controls you. 20 And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. 22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”[g] And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[rizen1]

Jesus saves.

2 Peter 2:20
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." KJV

Do you guys think this verse teaches that we can be "unsaved"?

Without any squabble about " Once saved is always saved "

Gal 5:1 says
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

Some translations says " yoke of slavery "
Which means it is possible to fall out of God's will or covering, if we're not standing firm in our faith.

 

[Cody]

I've always been taught "Once saved, always saved." I don't see how we can be taken out of God's hand and be unsealed by the blood of Christ. I don't see how we can be uncreated since Christ made us a new creation when we accepted him as our Lord and Savior.

John 10:29
"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

I also believe we should be saying "IF" saved, always saved.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Brother cody

I have just found this thread.

http://www.talkjesus.com/polls/4539-once-saved-always-saved-conditional-security-9.html

It is not easy when you want to find something like this as I typed in once saved always saved and did not find it. I thought this was mentioned recently on here too. Still have not found any other thread.


God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[stephen]

Spurgeon C.H. was known as the pope of England in his day. I say that respectfully. He was also tabbed 'the prince of preachers' Thousands attended his church in London

He must be one of the most widely published of all preachers.

He was a rank Calvinist as LLJ points out. But I cannot find fault with that.

Once saved always saved is good.......as long as you stay saved. That is as I see it. And as Spurgeon preached it.

It is good to study what the bible teaches about these great doctrines. And to also express biblical points of view on this subject is also edifying.

The important thing is our daily relationship with Jesus, we have to maintain that, and keep in touch with Him.