• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Loyal
Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:30 a.m. – The Lord Jesus put in mind the song “Muted Trumpet.” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read 1 Peter 5 (Quoting select vv. ESV).

Being Examples (vv. 1-5)

So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”​

What is the role of elders within the church (the body of Christ)? They are rulers, preachers, teachers, ministers, directors, guides (leaders), and pastors (shepherds) of God’s people under the direction and supervision of the Lord Jesus Christ, our chief shepherd, and they are his servants. They have the commission of oversight and discipline of the people, but they also have the duty to rule and to guide (lead, direct) the church according to God’s Word, as a shepherd would lead his sheep to pasture (to eat). As shepherds of God’s people, the elders are to keep watch over the people (the sheep), to care for them, to minister to their needs, to lead them in the way of righteousness, to caution them against wandering, and to exercise church discipline, if necessary, to bring a wandering one back into the fold.

Because of the seriousness of their God-given assignment within the body of Christ, elders must meet certain spiritual requirements to even be an elder. They must live lives above reproach, be God-fearing, and not be arrogant or quick-tempered or be drunkards, greedy, or violent. They must be hospitable, lovers of good, self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. And, an elder “must hold firmly to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it,” etc. (See: Titus 1:5-9; 1 Tim. 3:1-7, 1 Peter 5:1-4).

Other than the part about ruling and overseeing, as members of the body of Christ, we are taught that our lives must reflect these spiritual qualifications or characteristic traits, too. We, as well, are to serve as ministers of the gospel of Christ, and of his love, mercy, grace and compassion. We are to care for one another, encourage (urge, inspire, cheer) one another in the faith, speak the truth in love, and build one another up in Christ to maturity, etc. We are all given spiritual gifts and assignments to be used within the body of Christ for the strengthening, encouragement and spiritual growth of one another. And, we are to serve Christ and one another in Christ’s love, and according to God’s Word (See: Rom. 12; 1 Co. 12; Eph. 4).

As far as elders are concerned, not only must they shepherd God’s flock (his sheep), exercising oversight, willingly, and not under compulsion, and for the right reasons, but they must do so in a manner in which is not domineering (oppressing) over the people, as though they are the masters of the people and that the people are their slaves. Instead, they must serve as examples to the flock. What this means is that they shepherd (lead, guide, direct) God’s people by example and not by words only, not hypocritically, and not harshly or by bullying (intimidating; browbeating).

Although we are certainly not all called to be elders, nor can all of us be elders, many (if not all) of these truths apply to us, as well, in that we should also lead others to walk with Christ, not just by our words, and not arrogantly or through mistreatment, but by example in how we live our lives. The Bible has much to say to us on the subject of being hypocritical. We need to tell others about Jesus Christ, and share the gospel of our salvation with them, and we need to encourage (urge, inspire, cheer) and build up one another in the faith, but we must be so careful to make certain that we are walking the talk and not just talking the walk. Actions speak louder than words, and people will judge our words by what we do. So, we need to take the log out of our own eyes before we try to take the speck out of another’s eye, and then we will see clearly to remove that speck.

Humble Yourselves (vv. 6-11)

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​

So, we are to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God. He is to be our Lord (owner-master) and we his servants. We are not to be arrogant or haughty (conceited, prideful, self-righteous), but we are to be realistic with regard to where we were outside of Christ, when dead in our sins, and acknowledge the fact that it is only by God’s grace that we are now saved from our sins, and that we can even walk righteously before him. We are not to exalt (elevate, applaud) ourselves, but we are to leave that to God. This is not to say that we can never defend ourselves against false accusations, but that we should not go around promoting self, but Christ, who is our lives.

We, too, are to be serious-minded about Christ, about his Word, and concerning our walks of faith. Too many Christians (or professing Christians) do not take God and his Word seriously (to heart), and so they live with one foot, they think, in heaven, and one in the world, which cannot be. If we take God and his Word seriously, we will follow our Lord in obedience and we will do what his Word teaches us we must do, and live how it instructs us to live, not in our own power, but in the power and strength of the Lord. And, we will be watchful about how we live our lives, what we say, what we think and with regard to our attitudes and beliefs (doctrines), to make certain they are in agreement with the teachings of Christ and of his NT apostles.

Yet, we are to be mindful of the fact that we have an enemy whose goal it is to defeat, distract, discredit or to destroy us, so we must actively resist him. Daily we must put on the armor of God (Eph. 6:10-20) with which to fight off Satan’s evil attacks and schemes against us. When he throws his fiery darts our way, we must answer (respond) back with the truth of God’s Word, with steadfastness of faith, with perseverance, confidence in Christ, and trust in our Lord Jesus and in his sovereignty and his faithfulness.

When we are tempted to sin against God, we must flee the sin, throw off any hindrances to our walks of faith and cut out of our lives all which leads us into sin. If we play with fire, we are bound to get burned. We can’t keep tempting fate and not expect to get bit. We have to cut the cancer out so we don’t die. But, we don’t resist and flee in our own strength or willpower, but in the strength and power of God living within us. He is able and he will restore, strengthen and establish us in the faith as we yield to his lordship over our lives, submit to his will and purposes, and walk in obedience to his Word.

Muted Trumpet / An Original Work / October 14, 2011

Softly He speaks gently to us,
Giving us His messages, and
He waits patiently for us to
Respond to His words.
Will you listen to Him speaking?
Will you waken from your sleeping?
He is calling; hear Him whisper
His truth unto you.

Jesus speaks His words unto us,
So that He might live out through us,
Giving light to all who need Him,
So they can obey.
He gave His life to die for us,
So that from sin He would free us
To walk humbly in obedience
Unto Him each day.

Hear the trumpet clearly calling.
He died to keep us from falling.
Won’t you listen; heed His call to
Turn to Him today?
Hasten to Him calling to you.
Turn from sin and follow Jesus.
He loves you so much He gave you
Life eternally.

 
Active
My bible (kjv) says in 1 peter 5:3

Neither as being lords over God's heritage but being examples to the flock.

Ok what is a lord. A Lord is someone who has power and authority over others. We cant be lords, because there is only ONE Lord...Lord Jesus Christ.

But all of us when we reach an age can be elders...because we will always need to teach those younger than us in the faith. By being examples.

Now I know in most bibles they are all saying the same thing Sue. But just like to point out something specific in this word for word translation (kjv) that people might not grasp. We know that Jesus, even being Lord, was not domineering over others, and He had authority given to him by His Father. He was an example. And we cant even say Jesus himself led people cos he didnt really tell people what to do..even some of his own followers turned away...it was His spirit leading Him.

Jesus even said why do you call me Lord Lord when you dont even do what I say! Lol. But then he said I will show you...

Just going further Jesus tells us about two houses thet two men build, one is built on rock and the other on earth. Which one lasted against the stream?

So lets be hearers AND doers of His word.

Later Jesus makes an example of a centurion that says his dear servant who is unwell does everything he the centurion says he just needs to say the word and he does it. He comes to Jesus and says to him you dont even need to come to my house, you just say the word and my servant is going to be healed.

This is because the centurion knows Jesus has Gods authority. So Jesus goes and heals his servant without even going there!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Loyal
And we cant even say Jesus himself led people cos he didnt really tell people what to do..even some of his own followers turned away...it was His spirit leading Him.

Jesus even said why do you call me Lord Lord when you dont even do what I say!
@Lanolin - You appear to give two contradictory statements here. First you say that Jesus didn't really tell people what to do, and then you say he said "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, when you don't even do what I say?" Jesus did indeed tell people what to do, and what not to do, and that is one of the main reasons they hated and killed him. They didn't like his messages, his teaching. They didn't like it that he confronted them with their sins and that he called them to repentance and obedience, and that he warned them of judgment if they did not repent. But, he did lead by example. And, he led by his words. He is our great shepherd (guide, leader). "He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters."
 
Active
Sorry what am trying to get at is....Jesus did what his Father said to do..His Father had ultimate authority. Who is Jesus Father? God of course!

Then God handed down His authority to His son! So it wasnt Jesus..Jesus never claimed glory for himself..He wanted to glorify his Father.

Jesus was always pointing to his Father. Always obeying his Father.

Jesus was not actually telling people what to do or not to do. He was showing them! After that he explained what he was doing. He didnt make up new rules...he didnt insist on the law like the Pharisees did.
Jesus was leading by example. Jesus was encouraging people to obey God..his Father. Because Jesus ONLY did what his Father said to do!! Its ultimately God who tells people what to do or not do. Jesus was just showing in the flesh what God was like.

Its a lesson in obedience...and obedience shows you have faith.

John 13:12-17 is another example.

Remembee Isaiah has a picture of the suffering servant? Dont people say that is Jesus? It is not a picture of the suffering leader. Everyone was looking for a leader. But Jesus came as a servant. Did things that only servants do!

Psalm 23 talks about God...it is always God who is leading and we who are to obey and serve Him. And to serve one another with love. Remember the servant is not above his master.

I know its a paradox but just trying to explain it...people always focus on leaders leaders leaders and forget that even Paul described himself as a servant.
 
Active
Ok what am trying to get at is...if we profess to know the Lord, then we do whatever our Lord says. Because we are servants. We dont become lords to others and make ourselves lord. Bothe elders and youngers are to obey the Lord right? The only thing for an elder is that they have been obeying the Lord for a longer time than those younger in the faith. So of course they will be a good example and can teach those who are younger.and the younger people must be subject to them.

The world has a culture of disrespecting elders that is shameful. But its also shameful when people try to make themselves lords over other people.
 
Loyal
Sorry what am trying to get at is....Jesus did what his Father said to do..His Father had ultimate authority. Who is Jesus Father? God of course!

Then God handed down His authority to His son! So it wasnt Jesus..Jesus never claimed glory for himself..He wanted to glorify his Father.

Jesus was always pointing to his Father. Always obeying his Father.

Jesus was not actually telling people what to do or not to do. He was showing them! After that he explained what he was doing. He didnt make up new rules...he didnt insist on the law like the Pharisees did.
Jesus was leading by example. Jesus was encouraging people to obey God..his Father. Because Jesus ONLY did what his Father said to do!! Its ultimately God who tells people what to do or not do. Jesus was just showing in the flesh what God was like.

Its a lesson in obedience...and obedience shows you have faith.

John 13:12-17 is another example.

Remembee Isaiah has a picture of the suffering servant? Dont people say that is Jesus? It is not a picture of the suffering leader. Everyone was looking for a leader. But Jesus came as a servant. Did things that only servants do!

Psalm 23 talks about God...it is always God who is leading and we who are to obey and serve Him. And to serve one another with love. Remember the servant is not above his master.

I know its a paradox but just trying to explain it...people always focus on leaders leaders leaders and forget that even Paul described himself as a servant.
@Lanolin - Jesus Christ is God, the second person of our triune God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is the good shepherd who laid his life down for the sheep. He is the shepherd of Psalm 23. Since he is God, and it is always God who is leading, you say, then Jesus is leading.

I don't know why you continue to insist that Jesus did not tell people what to do or not do. He instructed the people continually as to what they should or should not do. Yes, he modeled it, too, but he also spoke it. Yes, it is God who tells people what to do and Jesus is God.

You said Jesus led by example, and then you said he didn't lead, that he was just a servant. But, Jesus led (guided, directed) people all the time, as well as he was a servant. Paul led (guided, directed) people, but he was also a servant. You can be a servant and be a leader (shepherd), too. Those are the kinds of leaders (guides, shepherds, pastors) we need in the church, i.e. those who are also servants, which is what this passage was about, I believe.
 
Active
Did you not read what Jesus said about his Father. Otherwise you are totally missing the point. A son obeys his Father. A son does not try and tell his father what to do. Only the Father can tell the son!

A servant is not above his master. A servant does not try and boss his master.

We do not need leaders in the church. We are called to be servants. Peter, Paul, James, Jude,John...all called themselves servants. Read every letter in the new testament if you dont believe me.

Unless your translation says 'leader of God' then it seems to me you may need a new bible.
 
Active
I dont think you fan be both. John was admonished by the angel when he tried to fall down and worship him. The angels said do not worship me, worship God. I am your fellowservant.

Maybe I have a different perspective but I know what my bible says and it seems to contradict a lot of what goes on in churches these days. For example, it doesnt say in the bible about church leaders that some are above others.

It is the holy spirit that actually leads people. We cant say it is of ourselves because the holy spirit is holy!!!
 
Active
Ok you think well moses led people in the exodus. He was leader. But did he really? Or was it the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day? Moses was following God who was greater than himself.
 
Loyal
Did you not read what Jesus said about his Father. Otherwise you are totally missing the point. A son obeys his Father. A son does not try and tell his father what to do. Only the Father can tell the son!

A servant is not above his master. A servant does not try and boss his master.

We do not need leaders in the church. We are called to be servants. Peter, Paul, James, Jude,John...all called themselves servants. Read every letter in the new testament if you dont believe me.

Unless your translation says 'leader of God' then it seems to me you may need a new bible.
@Lanolin - Can we agree that God is Father, Son (Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit? Thus, if God leads, then Jesus leads. If God shepherds, Jesus shepherds. If God tells people what to do, then Jesus tells (and told) people what to do. This, in no way, means that the Son is telling the Father what to do. Jesus was subject to the Father. But, it is saying that Jesus was and is God, and that he did lead (shepherd) by his words as well as by his example, and that he did, indeed, tell the people what to do or not to do. It is all throughout the gospels. And, yes, Jesus and the apostles were servants, but they were also leaders, i.e. they were those who shepherded the people. They were servant-shepherds.

From these following posts from two other threads, where you brought up this same subject, I can assume that your real issue is with the misuse of the term "leader," i.e. "shepherd," and not with the fact that the Bible talks about shepherds (leaders) and shepherding (leading). You, from what you have said, seem to object to the term because of its misuse, and because it is infrequently used in scripture as the actual word "leader," and yet a shepherd or one who shepherds does lead the sheep and thus he is a leader.

I have no problems with shepherds if they are following the chief Shepherd. I do have a problem with wolves in sheeps clothing, often calling themselves 'leaders'.
Sorry sue.
Yes a pastor is another name for a shepherd and if you have a large flock or family yes someone needs to look after them, just as God cares for our needs and provides for us as He is a good shepherd and our Heavenly Father.

I just am not really keen on the word leader as abused by greedy business people creeping into the church.
So, can we now agree that shepherds (leaders) and shepherding (leading) are biblical terms? And, that God does call people to be shepherds (leaders) and to shepherd (lead) his people, under his direction and guidance, and in his wisdom, power and strength? And, can we agree that the term "leader," although biblical, is often misused, perhaps, within the confines of organized religion, i.e. among those who have turned God's house of prayer into a marketplace? But, can we also agree that, just because of its misuse, in some cases, that we we should not entirely disregard the term "leader" as non-biblical? And, that, since "shepherd" means "to lead," that it is reasonable to use that term in 20th century English, as long as we are using it within a biblical context, if used to describe biblical leaders (shepherds or those who shepherd)?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
jaboyle100 Devotionals 1
Christ4Ever Devotionals 0
Christ4Ever Devotionals 0

Similar threads


Top