Blocked Inheritance

[Dovegiven]

Judas problem was that he was never washed the first time. Jesus said in (John 13:10) "...He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet...." But Judas was never clean from the first washing of regeneration. "...and ye are clean, but not all" Thus the daily washing had no influence upon Judas. Jesus lost none who were His or God's. Though Judas followed Christ, for all the wrong reasons, he was never one of Christ's.

Quantrill

According to every resource I've examined on preparation for the Passover meal, Jews had to bathe twice before attending. Then upon arrival while the table is set, the host washed feet once. Peter, a Jew, had doubtless already washed properly, but was saying he would submit to the twice washing by Jesus, and the foot washing. He didn't want to miss out on anything of Jesus. Those washings were all ceremonial, and had no saving power. All he needed was the typical traveler's foot washing. My point is even if Jesus washed three times, as was experienced by Judas by Jesus' spoken word, none of his preparations resulted in taking the holy supper with any meaning at all. Every Jew that day who took that meal with a right conscience was better off than Judas. Up until that day Judas had a fault, like Peter had some faults, of greed for money, and a resentment of Jesus benefiting directly from financial support of the ministry. That's a fault many Christians share today. But when Judas moved down to traitor, denying Jesus as the Christ, he lost any "regeneration" available to any apostle before the cross. He believed, but was more on the side of Jews wanting a mighty flesh savior king of Israel, like other apostles shared in to some extent, thinking Jesus kingdom of Heaven would materialize in their days.

Jesus lost one of His sheep, Judas, according to
John 17:12 (KJV) 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

That is linked to when Jesus was arrested, making a fine example of a good shepherd sacrificing his safety for the remaining flock.
John 18:6-9 (KJV)
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

The best conclusion ought to be that it is God's will that all be saved, but we know many are not ever saved, and some who were cleansed become backsliders like Judas, and resume being lost. OSAS folks would say they were never saved to begin with. ?????? Judas was one of the original twelve, called by Jesus in Mat 10, who followed Jesus up into the last supper.

Well, it appears there's a formatting problem I need to figure out, unable to color or change text size. The undo doesn't work on my end either so I will back off.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

while on the subject of Judas, this song came to mind.
Take five and have a listen.

Bless you all ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Well, it appears there's a formatting problem I need to figure out, unable to color or change text size.

Greetings,

currently experimenting with some changes for improving the site are being done.
Sorry for any inconvenience


Bless you ....><>

P.S. don't forget to watch that video!

 

[Dovegiven]

Greetings,

currently experimenting with some changes for improving the site are being done.
Sorry for any inconvenience


Bless you ....><>

P.S. don't forget to watch that video!

I lost half a large post trying to color text. I usually write on Word for insurance, then move it to a post, but didn't. It was time for a break

I don't consider myself a singer or crier, but I just had to go back through that song and sing along with strength and tears. Saving it. Thanks brother.

 

[Dovegiven]

Judas name was written in the book of life at one point in his ministry with Jesus, it is in scripture

His name was indeed blotted out and no longer listed with the righteous according to David's prophecies in Psalms 69:25-28 and 109:8-15. A name can't be blotted out that wasn't listed, referred to by Peter in Acts 1:20, and of course Jesus cited based on Psalms.

 

[Dave M]

His name was indeed blotted out and no longer listed with the righteous according to David's prophecies in Psalms 69:25-28 and 109:8-15. A name can't be blotted out that wasn't listed, referred to by Peter in Acts 1:20, and of course Jesus cited based on Psalms.

@Bill showed me this

In chapter 10 of Luke Jesus is sending out his 70 disciples and giving them all instructions and finally says

Luke 10-20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven

so it appears at this time Judas name was still written in heaven

 

[Quantrill]

Judas name was written in the book of life at one point in his ministry with Jesus, it is in scripture

Jesus and the Scripture are clear that Judas was never washed the first time. (John 13:10-11)

Why do you tell me 'in the Scripture' and yet don't give the Scripture?

Quantrill

 

[Dave M]

luke 10-20 says his name was written in heaven

 

[Quantrill]

According to every resource I've examined on preparation for the Passover meal, Jews had to bathe twice before attending. Then upon arrival while the table is set, the host washed feet once. Peter, a Jew, had doubtless already washed properly, but was saying he would submit to the twice washing by Jesus, and the foot washing. He didn't want to miss out on anything of Jesus. Those washings were all ceremonial, and had no saving power. All he needed was the typical traveler's foot washing. My point is even if Jesus washed three times, as was experienced by Judas by Jesus' spoken word, none of his preparations resulted in taking the holy supper with any meaning at all. Every Jew that day who took that meal with a right conscience was better off than Judas. Up until that day Judas had a fault, like Peter had some faults, of greed for money, and a resentment of Jesus benefiting directly from financial support of the ministry. That's a fault many Christians share today. But when Judas moved down to traitor, denying Jesus as the Christ, he lost any "regeneration" available to any apostle before the cross. He believed, but was more on the side of Jews wanting a mighty flesh savior king of Israel, like other apostles shared in to some extent, thinking Jesus kingdom of Heaven would materialize in their days.

Jesus lost one of His sheep, Judas, according to
John 17:12 (KJV) 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

That is linked to when Jesus was arrested, making a fine example of a good shepherd sacrificing his safety for the remaining flock.
John 18:6-9 (KJV)
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

The best conclusion ought to be that it is God's will that all be saved, but we know many are not ever saved, and some who were cleansed become backsliders like Judas, and resume being lost. OSAS folks would say they were never saved to begin with. ?????? Judas was one of the original twelve, called by Jesus in Mat 10, who followed Jesus up into the last supper.

Well, it appears there's a formatting problem I need to figure out, unable to color or change text size. The undo doesn't work on my end either so I will back off.

The only washings described in the Bible are the two. The first which speak to regeneration. The second which speak to cleansing. (John 13:10-11) is clear that Judas was never cleansed by the first washing. He was never a believer. He was a devil from the beginning. (John 6:70) "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil." Jesus knew who he was from the beginning. He was never a believer, never a sheep.

Concerning (John 17:12) Jesus is clear that none are lost except Judas, the son of perdition. That doesn't make Judas a believer. He was a devil when Christ chose him. He was lost from the 12, but not lost as a sheep.

Judas was never saved. He is a perfect picture of the hog and dog returning to what they are. What they were, and are, never changed. Thus you see the importance of God changing who you are, not what you do. If He changes who you are, then what you do will follow.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

luke 10-20 says his name was written in heaven

No it doesn't. That is speaking to the 70. Not the 12. (Lu. 10:17)

Quantrill

 

[Dave M]

No it doesn't. That is speaking to the 70. Not the 12. (Lu. 10:17)

Quantrill

what makes you think the 12 are not included in the 70?

 

[Quantrill]

what makes you think the 12 are not included in the 70?

Because 70 plus 12 equals the 82. (Lu. 10:1) "...other seventy also...."

Quantrill

 

[Dave M]

Because 70 plus 12 equals the 82. (Lu. 10:1) "...other seventy also...."

Quantrill

the apostles were also disciples so that would not necessarily add 12 to it.

 

[Dovegiven]

luke 10-20 says his name was written in heaven

All 70 were at that point. Judas had made his deal before Passover, but wasn't taken over by Satan until Jesus gave him the sop at the supper. At that moment he was taking the sop unworthily, dooming him, and according to David his entire family line cursed back to his fathers, and children's children, etc. What a covenant they had then! The blood of Jesus ratified our new covenant, but left the old one in effect for those living by the law.

 

[Dovegiven]

Because 70 plus 12 equals the 82. (Lu. 10:1) "...other seventy also...."

Quantrill

Luke 10:1 (KJV)
1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy

also,

and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

also is from the Gr. kai, sometimes used "and also", though that's considered improper, redundant English usage. It's habit forming by helping the mouth form "and" to prepare for the more difficult "also". The task instructions well fit what He had the apostles do in the previous chapter of Luke 9:2 (KJV)
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

In chapter 9 they returned, the multitude was fed, they went to villages, adding disciples who didn't make excuses. Those disciples had to be trained (make disciples of believers). When empowered they were sent out in pairs. Whether Judas was with the apostles going out, or training disciples of the seventy, is not a major point. He was of that ministry, taking equal part with the other 11, without complaint of any until the last week with Jesus.

 

[B-A-C]

It would be difficult to quantify this.... but...

John 6:65; And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"

Many scholars believe the "many disciples" who decided not to walk with Jesus anymore... were the 70 (some Bibles say 72).
But in any case.... whoever these disciples that left Jesus were, the original twelve did not leave with them.
In verse 67... Jesus asks "the twelve".... you aren't leaving also?

 

[B-A-C]

At the same time we can see clearly that all forms of unholy living as B-A-C has already poster with Bible quotes was not only to avoid but also reaped a reward, which was not to be saved.

I personally want a fair judge not one who can not be depended upon for true justice. I confess here that saying that I have not always lived in a way pleasing to God and I know that even i will be judged. Even more reason to watch my step and walk uprightly.

You have a way of cutting straight to the chase.

If we can't depend on God to punish the wicked (it says over 100 times in the Bible that He will)... how can we depend on Him to reward the righteous? (It says over 20 times He will)

 

[B-A-C]

It doesn't appear that Judas was excluded originally...

Matt 10:1; Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

It seems Judas had as power as the rest of them.

Mark 6:7; And He *summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;

Luke 9:1; And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.

 

[Dovegiven]

It doesn't appear that Judas was excluded originally...

Matt 10:1; Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

It seems Judas had as power as the rest of them.

Mark 6:7; And He *summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;

Luke 9:1; And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.

It appears to me Judas was a lot more of a follower, far more involved in the ministry, than probably the majority of people claiming to be Christian. It's sad to say. It has been like pulling hen's teeth to get any help visiting the lonely in nursing homes, going out door to door, helping sack up food at the pantry, fix a porch for a widow, or at least volunteer to direct parking at our very insufficient lot. It's always been a tough deal to get people involved. 3% are regular financial supporters. Going to another town to help coordinate a tornado event. Nope. Praying for people at the altar? Two or three out of 300. That terrifies most, but many will sit on a pew. It's always been that way for the past two millennia. At least Judas believed and was empowered, and worked the ministry. He was fine until that last week when he got really sour and then, at that Passover meal, took that sop of bread dipped in gravy fed by the right hand of Jesus himself, (Oh such an honor) and immediately was filled with very Satan!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings men again,

what do we do with the story Jesus told of the unjust steward who was forgiven but did not forgive?

see Luke 16:1-9
And He said also unto His disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed. I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses. So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord? And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty. Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore. And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

It comes across as a fairly stern warning, does it not?


Bless you ....><>