• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Biblical and First Century Christian Perspectives on Abortion and the Preexistence of the Soul

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Member
Some progressive defend a pro-choice stance, pointing to Exodus 21:22 as evidence that the fetus is not a person:
"When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman, so that she miscarries, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as judges determine."
They point out that the next verse applies the law of a life for a life if the woman in question is killed and they argue that the mere fine for killing the fetus implies that it is not human in the same sense that the mother is. Conservative Christians counter this argument by noting that 21:22 is not referring to murder because the assailant is not likely to have intended to kill the fetus. They then point to biblical texts that celebrate the sanctity of human life and God's role in creating babies: e. g. "You knit me together in my mother's womb (Psalm 139:13)." Please add your favorite Bible verses on this point.

But the Bible never explicitly prohibits abortion. For this reason, no ancient text is more important to the abortion debate than the Teaching of the 12 Apostles, better known as the Didache (the French word for "teaching). The Didache was written around 95 AD, probably in Syria, but its first part called the 2 Ways was written much earlier, probably prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. So the Didache was likely written in the NT era and its 2 Ways section was likely composed before our NT Gospels. This fact makes the prohibition in its 2 Ways section particularly important for the abortion issue: "Thou shalt not procure an abortion (Didache 4:2)." So Christians adopt a pro-life position in the apostolic NT era.

It is not well known that there was a Jewish consensus in Jesus' time that the soul preexists prior to birth. Indeed, a Bible-based argument can leveled against the view that, for most of its existence, the embryo and fetus can be viewed as mere tissue:
(1) Jesus' disciples embrace the possibility that a man can be born blind because of sins committed in his pre-birth existence:
"His disciples asked Him: `Who sinned, this man or His parents, that he was born blind' (John 9:2)."
The possibility of character development prior to birth seems to be implied by the Wisdom of Solomon in the Catholic OT:
"A good soul fell to my lot, or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body (8:19-20)."

(2) The call of Jeremiah seems to presuppose not only divine foreknowledge, but the preexistence of Jeremiah's soul:
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I consecrated you and I appointed you a prophet to the Gentiles (1:5)."
God knew (and didn't just foreknow) Jeremiah prior to his birth.
(a) And when did God create these preexistent souls? Prior to the creation of the universe according to 2 Enoch 23:
"All souls are prepared for eternity before the composition of the earth (2 Enoch 23)."
(b) And how do these souls infiltrate the human embryo? The Jewish Essenes answered that question this way:
"Emanating from the finest ether, these souls become entangled, as it were, in the prison house of the body, to which they are dragged down by a sort of natural spell (Josephus, Jewish Wars 2.8.11)."
The Jewish writer, Philo of Alexandria, and later rabbinic Judaism also embrace the preexistence of the soul. In Jesus' day there is a Jewish consensus on this point.
 
Least amongst the Best
Staff Member
ease add your favorite Bible verses on this point.
Greetings,


Did not He who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb? Job 31:15

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is His reward. Psalm 127:3
 
Active
Based on scriptures, early Church theologian Clement of Alexandria about 200 AD wrote "those who use abortifacient medicines to hide their fornication cause not only the outright murder of the fetus, but of the whole human race as well" There was consensus throughout church history along the same position. Their beliefs came from lifetimes of Bible study. Around 220 AD Tertullian wrote "It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. In both instances, destruction is murder". About 330 AD Basil of Caesarea wrote "Those who give abortifacients for the destruction of a child conceived in the womb are murderers themselves, along with those receiving the poisons" About 425 AD Augustine warned against the terrible crime of the murder of an unborn child. The list of great theologians and Church leaders is large affirming the sin of abortion as equal to murder, for both an abortionist and the pregnant woman. Both parties, who continue to agree to the practice, are subject to intense judgment as murderers, and denial of entry into eternal life, as no murderer will be saved. God knows every baby in the womb, holds the womb as a blessed gift, and is still accounting unforgiven sins. God did not wipe away all the sins of the world, contrary to some Pro Choice writers who pervert truth. They read into the Bible rather than take messages from it.
 
Member
I do not believe that God, when he is understood to have said "Go forth and multiply", was giving the human race the freedom of limitless procreate by ravishing to extinction, the other creatures that He created.

So long as some jewish families feel absolved from, and papal pontifications lead to, polluting the planet with people, responsible people may well feel obliged to limit their off spring for the good of God's world.

Where better could the souls of fetus grow up than in the arms of Jesus in Heaven ?
 
Loyal
Some progressive defend a pro-choice stance, pointing to Exodus 21:22 as evidence that the fetus is not a person:
"When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman, so that she miscarries, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as judges determine."
They point out that the next verse applies the law of a life for a life if the woman in question is killed and they argue that the mere fine for killing the fetus implies that it is not human in the same sense that the mother is. Conservative Christians counter this argument by noting that 21:22 is not referring to murder because the assailant is not likely to have intended to kill the fetus. They then point to biblical texts that celebrate the sanctity of human life and God's role in creating babies: e. g. "You knit me together in my mother's womb (Psalm 139:13)." Please add your favorite Bible verses on this point.

But the Bible never explicitly prohibits abortion. For this reason, no ancient text is more important to the abortion debate than the Teaching of the 12 Apostles, better known as the Didache (the French word for "teaching). The Didache was written around 95 AD, probably in Syria, but its first part called the 2 Ways was written much earlier, probably prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. So the Didache was likely written in the NT era and its 2 Ways section was likely composed before our NT Gospels. This fact makes the prohibition in its 2 Ways section particularly important for the abortion issue: "Thou shalt not procure an abortion (Didache 4:2)." So Christians adopt a pro-life position in the apostolic NT era.

It is not well known that there was a Jewish consensus in Jesus' time that the soul preexists prior to birth. Indeed, a Bible-based argument can leveled against the view that, for most of its existence, the embryo and fetus can be viewed as mere tissue:
(1) Jesus' disciples embrace the possibility that a man can be born blind because of sins committed in his pre-birth existence:
"His disciples asked Him: `Who sinned, this man or His parents, that he was born blind' (John 9:2)."
The possibility of character development prior to birth seems to be implied by the Wisdom of Solomon in the Catholic OT:
"A good soul fell to my lot, or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body (8:19-20)."

(2) The call of Jeremiah seems to presuppose not only divine foreknowledge, but the preexistence of Jeremiah's soul:
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I consecrated you and I appointed you a prophet to the Gentiles (1:5)."
God knew (and didn't just foreknow) Jeremiah prior to his birth.
(a) And when did God create these preexistent souls? Prior to the creation of the universe according to 2 Enoch 23:
"All souls are prepared for eternity before the composition of the earth (2 Enoch 23)."
(b) And how do these souls infiltrate the human embryo? The Jewish Essenes answered that question this way:
"Emanating from the finest ether, these souls become entangled, as it were, in the prison house of the body, to which they are dragged down by a sort of natural spell (Josephus, Jewish Wars 2.8.11)."
The Jewish writer, Philo of Alexandria, and later rabbinic Judaism also embrace the preexistence of the soul. In Jesus' day there is a Jewish consensus on this point.
I have only one comment here....There is mention of abortion in the Bible.....
Leviticus 20:2-5 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
2 “Say to the people of Isra’el, ‘If someone from the people of Isra’el or one of the foreigners living in Isra’el sacrifices one of his children to Molekh, he must be put to death; the people of the land are to stone him to death. 3 I too will set myself against him and cut him off from his people, because he has sacrificed his child to Molekh, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. 4 If the people of the land look the other way when that man sacrifices his child to Molekh and fail to put him to death, 5 then I will set myself against him, his family and everyone who follows him to go fornicating after Molekh, and cut them off from their people.
 
Loyal
I do not believe that God, when he is understood to have said "Go forth and multiply", was giving the human race the freedom of limitless procreate by ravishing to extinction, the other creatures that He created.

So long as some jewish families feel absolved from, and papal pontifications lead to, polluting the planet with people, responsible people may well feel obliged to limit their off spring for the good of God's world.

Where better could the souls of fetus grow up than in the arms of Jesus in Heaven ?
Sounds like you agree with abortion...Your pope does too The fact of the matter is that God puts us on Earth for a reason...
 
Member
Sounds like you agree with abortion...Your pope does too The fact of the matter is that God puts us on Earth for a reason...
He is your pope too.

His attitude to limiting offspring, in my opinion, is just plain hypocritical. He applauds timing and a barrier, so long as the barrier is air, and spilling seed like Onan is OK, despite it being displeasing to the Lord.

The Lord aborts millions of pregnancies every year through miscarriage, and all those fetus grow up in the care and love of Jesus.

I'm sure that God put us on Earth for a reason, and I believe that he would like us to be his stewards. Instead, through greed and indifference, we are trashing the place.
 
Loyal
He is your pope too.

His attitude to limiting offspring, in my opinion, is just plain hypocritical. He applauds timing and a barrier, so long as the barrier is air, and spilling seed like Onan is OK, despite it being displeasing to the Lord.

The Lord aborts millions of pregnancies every year through miscarriage, and all those fetus grow up in the care and love of Jesus.

I'm sure that God put us on Earth for a reason, and I believe that he would like us to be his stewards. Instead, through greed and indifference, we are trashing the place.
No Sir! That man is the leader of the Romanist Church, to which I do NOT subscribe. He is not a man of God, He does not speak for God, nor does he represent me to God. His god will go water skiing in the Lake of Fire and if he does not repent and accept Jesus he will join his god.
 

Similar threads


Top