Beyond The Four Spiritual Laws

[Nicola Jane]

Hello Beetow
John 15 verse

the cut of every branch that doesnt bear fruit part
your thoughts on this
as some believers back slide into old ways are they cut off for good
Thankyou

 

[Beetow]

John 15 verse . . . the cut of every branch that doesnt bear fruit part . . . your thoughts on this . . . as some believers back slide into old ways are they cut off for good.

The vine spoken of in John 15:1-6 refers to anyone and everyone identifying themselves with Christ regardless of their denominational affiliation; and regardless of whether they are believers or unbelievers.

Now, it is impossible for believers to get themselves removed from the vine no matter how they behave themselves; but of course unbelievers are dead wood from the get-go.
_

 

[Nicola Jane]

The vine spoken of in John 15:1-6 refers to anyone and everyone identifying themselves with Christ regardless of their denominational affiliation; and regardless of whether they are believers or unbelievers.

Now, it is impossible for believers to get themselves removed from the vine no matter how they behave themselves; but of course unbelievers are dead wood from the get-go.
_

ok and thankyou so its referring to unbelievers then

 

[B-A-C]

Now, it is impossible for believers to get themselves removed from the vine no matter how they behave themselves; but of course unbelievers are dead wood from the get-go.

Rom 11:17; But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18; do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19; You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

"no matter how they behave themselves". Typical antimonian teaching. "You can live however you want, do whatever you want, sin all you want. God doesn't care."

Luke 8:14; The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity

Some start to bear fruit, (they couldn't do this on their own, without Jesus) but it never fully matures.

 

[Nicola Jane]

Rom 11:17; But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18; do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19; You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

"no matter how they behave themselves". Typical antimonian teaching. "You can live however you want, do whatever you want, sin all you want. God doesn't care."

Luke 8:14; The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity

Some start to bear fruit, (they couldn't do this on their own, without Jesus) but it never fully matures.

ok
thankyou for the response Beetow x

 

[Beetow]

.

ok Thank you for the response Beetow x

I didn't write post No.344

For the record: I would never construe Rom 11:11-22 in such a manner as to question Christ's competence as a shepherd of the sheep that the Father entrusted to His son's care.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 4:11a . . Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life,

I highly recommend avoiding political activism like the plague. Demonstrations, protests, marches, and the like are not what I call a quiet life; and they sometimes result in violence and civil disobedience; which are really bad things for Christ's believing followers.

"and tend your own business" (1Thess 4:11b)

Getting one's self involved with stuff that doesn't pertain to you whilst neglecting your obligations. commitments, and responsibilities is irresponsible.

I think this rule may be intended to regulate meddling too; which in my opinion is a very annoying habit practiced by people who honestly believe they know how to live your life better than you. Well; maybe they do; but if there is one thing I and quite a few others really despise it's unsolicited counseling.
_

 

[Nicola Jane]

.


I didn't write post No.344

For the record: I would never construe Rom 11:11-22 in such a manner as to question Christ's competence as a shepherd of the sheep that the Father entrusted to His son's care.
_

im sorry just realized it was BAC who replied

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 4:11c-12 . . Work with your own hands, just as we instructed you, so that
your daily life may win the respect of outsiders; and so that you will not be
dependent on anybody.

In times of economic stress-- e.g. the 2008 Wall Street collapse, downsizing, wage
reductions, corporations expatriating for tax advantages and/or outsourcing and
moving their manufacturing offshore to take advantage of cheap labor and skimpy
government controls, and the covid-19 virus chaos --a pretty large percentage of
America's employable Christians were, and have been, out of work not because
they were lazy free-loaders; but because their opportunities for full time work with
decent wages and benefits evaporated.

So tread lightly when services like unemployment benefits, SNAP, and TANF, etc,
come up in conversations. Innocent people's feeling might get hurt if you become
too critical of those kinds of relief systems. And don't ever assume that you are
immune to poverty. It can happen to anyone; even overnight and then you'll be
looking around for assistance; maybe even from the very agencies that you at one
time thought were below you.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 4:18 . .Encourage each other with these words.

Below are the words to which Paul referred

"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to
grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose
again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep
in him. According to The Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive,
who are left till the coming of The Lord, will certainly not precede those who have
fallen asleep.

. . . For The Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with
the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ
will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air. And so we will be with
The Lord forever." (1Thess 4:13-17)

In other words: when non Christians and such lose a non Christian loved one, the
loss is assumed permanent; but when Christians lose a Christian loved one, the loss
is presumed temporary.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:5-6 . . We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us
not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled.

Is it possible for a Christian to be asleep at the wheel? Yes, absolutely or why else
would Paul encourage his friends to remain wide-awake and bushy-tailed?

"Others are like seed sown among thorns: they hear the word; but are distracted
by the cares of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth; and longings for other things
come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful." (Mark 4:18-19)

Well, the lesson is obvious. Christians ought not to be distracted by worldly pursuits
to such an extent that the day about which The Lord spoke comes as a big
disappointment. No; they ought to be glad to see it rather than be all broken up
about it because like it nor not; Christians take no more out with them than the lost
when they leave this sphere. So try not to get too attached.

"For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."
(1Tim 6:7)
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:11 . . Encourage one another, and build each other up, just as in fact
you are doing.

Building up is just the opposite of tearing down. Christians in Galatia were busy
doing just that.

"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one
of another!" (Gal 5:15)

Biting and devouring one another describes cannibals and carnivorous beasts.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:12-13a . . Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard
among you, who are over you in The Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the
highest regard in love because of their work.

I would say that if the officers in your church are just too impossible for you to
respect then it's time to abandon ship. Don't mutiny though because mutiny is just
as much a sin as heresy. The rank and file aren't called to reform church officers;
but to cooperate with them. (Heb 13:17}

If they can't cooperate with them; then I sincerely believe the rank and file should
leave and find a church where they can because Christ isn't pleased with grudging
compliance; rather, with whole-hearted compliance. (cf. Mark 12:30)
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:13b . . Live in peace with each other.

In this instance, "each other" probably refers to fellow believers.

The category of peace Paul is talking about is social; viz: harmony in personal
relations. The Hippies and the peace-nics failed to achieve peace primarily because
they couldn't be civil among themselves unless they were high on mood-altering
drugs.

Peace can be defined as: calm, pacific, tranquil, at rest, quiet, and free of trouble
and strife.

A lack of peace is characterized by war, quarrelling, debating, vendettas, hostility,
grudging, fault finding, nit picking, chafing, competition, rivalry, cold shouldering,
factions, taking sides, cliques, hostility, militancy, disorder, antagonism, fighting,
conflict, struggles, et al.

NOTE: Never assume that everyone you meet in church is a fellow believer. Going
to church on Sunday is just what some people do, and probably have done ever
since they were kids. There was a time when going to church on Sunday was
considered good citizenship; and quite a few people were there for no other reason;
i.e. church sort of fills out their social résumé. And then some people attend church
because they're lonely and wanting to meet some new friends; etc, etc, etc, etc.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:14a . . We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly

The "brothers" in this case likely addresses church managers.

The Greek word for "unruly" is ataktos (at-ak'-toce) which means: irregular; viz:
out of order; disorderly.

Unruly people are like kindergartners; but that's to be expected from their age
group: little kids are disruptive, boisterous, and impulsive. They go off-subject and
say whatever they want right out of the blue. They provoke and antagonize each
other, they don't listen, they talk out of turn, can't stay in their seats, and they
meddle and can't mind their own business.

When I hear of four supposedly adults on a television talk show throwing hissy fits
and walking off the set, and/or talking out of turn; and spontaneously interrupting
each other in mid sentence-- sometimes all four speaking at once --I have to
wonder. And so-called presidential debates where again two supposedly mature
adults, competing for the power to run the country, are hurling accusations and
recriminations, assassinating each other's character, and calling each other names;
I get disgusted. God forbid that Christ's followers act like that either in church or
out in the world.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:14b . . Comfort the discouraged

A discouraged person is someone who's given up all expectation that a situation will
improve or change; viz: despairing.

In order to obey that directive, it's necessary to become personal with the people
with whom you attend church. Too many Christians are like little islands of
humanity in church. They warm a pew on Sunday morning and then get up and
leave without bothering to spend even one minute mingling. They don't attend
Sunday school because in Sunday school you meet people-- you associate with
them; you get to know them, and they get to know you.

As disagreeable as that might be for private types of Christians, Sunday school is
the best place in church to go for sympathy, for encouragement, and for support.
Unfortunately, not many Christians can deal with negativity; and tend to distance
themselves from people down in the dumps.

A Word To The Wise: Never, ever try to comfort someone by saying it could be
worse. All you've accomplished when you say that is reveal that you are a
sympathy-challenged clod who can think of nothing better to say.

Here's another:

Some years ago my favorite Guinea Pig died and I was depressed and blue by its
passing because we were very attached. One of the men at work said: Well, you
know death is the normal round of life. If you guessed that man was a thoughtless
moron, you got it right; he was always saying the wrong thing.

NOTE: In Dr. Laura Schlessinger's book "Ten Stupid Things That Men Do To Mess
Up Their Lives" she lists men's propensity to fix things. In other words: instead of
simply lending a sympathetic ear to people's problems, some men tend to see
people with problems as "broken" and in need of repair; and then of course they
take the initiative to begin offering unsolicited remedies. No; the idea is to console
the discouraged rather than talk them out of their low state of mind.
_

 

[Christ4Ever]

● 1Thess 5:14b . . Comfort the discouraged

A discouraged person is someone who's given up all expectation that a situation will
improve or change; viz: despairing.

In order to obey that directive, it's necessary to become personal with the people
with whom you attend church. Too many Christians are like little islands of
humanity in church. They warm a pew on Sunday morning and then get up and
leave without bothering to spend even one minute mingling. They don't attend
Sunday school because in Sunday school you meet people-- you associate with
them; you get to know them, and they get to know you.

As disagreeable as that might be for private types of Christians, Sunday school is
the best place in church to go for sympathy, for encouragement, and for support.
Unfortunately, not many Christians can deal with negativity; and tend to distance
themselves from people down in the dumps.

A Word To The Wise: Never, ever try to comfort someone by saying it could be
worse. All you've accomplished when you say that is reveal that you are a
sympathy-challenged clod who can think of nothing better to say.

Here's another:

Some years ago my favorite Guinea Pig died and I was depressed and blue by its
passing because we were very attached. One of the men at work said: Well, you
know death is the normal round of life. If you guessed that man was a thoughtless
moron, you got it right; he was always saying the wrong thing.

NOTE: In Dr. Laura Schlessinger's book "Ten Stupid Things That Men Do To Mess
Up Their Lives" she lists men's propensity to fix things. In other words: instead of
simply lending a sympathetic ear to people's problems, some men tend to see
people with problems as "broken" and in need of repair; and then of course they
take the initiative to begin offering unsolicited remedies. No; the idea is to console
the discouraged rather than talk them out of their low state of mind.
_

It might help to let one know what console means. So, that one might a little understanding what is needed to help those who are discouraged.

CONSOLE, v.t. L. The primary sense is either to set or allay, to give rest or quiet, or the sense is to strengthen, in which case it coincides with the root of solid. The latter is most probable. To comfort; to cheer the mind in distress or depression; to alleviate grief, and give refreshment to the mind or spirits; to give contentment or moderate happiness by relieving from distress.

The promises of the gospel may well console the Christian in all the afflictions of life.

It is a consoling reflection that the evils of life are temporary.

I am much consoled by the reflection that the religion of Christ has been attacked in vain by all the wits and philosophers, and its triumph has been complete.

 

[Beetow]

1Thess 5:14b . . Comfort the discouraged

Canadian folk singer Gordon Lightfoot released an emotional song back in 1975 that
speaks volumes about sympathy. Its lyrics are very touching. Here's a few that I
feel especially appropriate.

Rainy day people always seem to know when it's time to call.
Rainy day people don't talk, they just listen till they've heard it all.
Rainy day lovers don't lie when they tell 'ya they've been down like you.
Rainy day people don't mind if you're cryin' a tear or two.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:14c . . Support the weak

That could probably be stretched to mean any number of things; but I should think
it includes care for your church's aged and/or infirm; viz; people on crutches,
people getting around in wheel chairs, people who can no longer drive a car, people
lacking enough health and/or strength to go shopping on their own: that sort of
thing.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Thess 5:14d . . Be patient with everyone.

The Greek word for patient is makrothumeo (mak-roth-oo-meh'-o) which has little
to do with getting fed up with people. In James 5:7-8 it speaks of giving things
space to happen in their own good time.

I would say that in this case, makrothumeo speaks of giving people a chance to
either catch on or catch up. For example: we all perfectly understand what we're
saying while those hearing may need to have us restate ourselves in different
words in order to clarify a misunderstanding.
_