Beyond The Four Spiritual Laws

[Sue D.]

@ Curtis -- by paranormal --don't we mean trying to find out what's in the future? Playing with ouija boards - messing around with reading tea leaves? Messing around with 'mediums'.

A Christian deals with the 'spirits' by yielding to God and telling the devil to flee from us. Yielding to God 1st.

 

[Curtis]

@ Curtis -- by paranormal --don't we mean trying to find out what's in the future?

You mentioned this scripture in another post, and pretty much every body else does, but, you have to quote in the next verse that goes with it or we get the wrong interpretation.

1Cor 2:9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—
1Cor 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

God shows us the future by his Spirit. What things have we not seen, or heard, or imagined to what God has prepared for those who love him? All of these things are revealed to us by His Spirit!!

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- we're talking about two different things. This passage is saying that because a person has the Holy Spirit indwelling them that That person has access to the Holy Spirit's teaching them the deeper things of God. That the unsaved person does not have access to.

And in and of ourselves -- we can't begin to image what God has prepared for those who love Him.

The book of Revelation was written by John -- he was given visions of what lay ahead in the future. He wrote all of that down so that everyone can read it. He was inspired by God, through the Holy Spirit.

We Can know of future things that God Wants us to know. Through His Word. But NOT through mediums or fortune tellers,.

 

[Adziilii]

Rom 12:8c . . If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously.

A natural aptitude for management doesn't count. It has to be God-given; that is: a legitimate Spirit-endowed ability. (cf. Rom 12:3-8, 1Cor 12:4-11, 1Cor 12:27-30)

There are far too many people sitting on church boards merely because they're a success in business. Well; if your church is a commercial enterprise; then maybe you should think about finding another one.
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[Curtis]

Curtis -- we're talking about two different things. This passage is saying that because a person has the Holy Spirit indwelling them that That person has access to the Holy Spirit's teaching them the deeper things of God. That the unsaved person does not have access to.

And in and of ourselves -- we can't begin to image what God has prepared for those who love Him.

The book of Revelation was written by John -- he was given visions of what lay ahead in the future. He wrote all of that down so that everyone can read it. He was inspired by God, through the Holy Spirit.

We Can know of future things that God Wants us to know. Through His Word. But NOT through mediums or fortune tellers,.

What this these two scriptures are saying is " What God reveals to all those who love him which is every thing he has prepared for them, but you will not get them through your mind, eyes, or ears!!" The heart of man (his spirit) is where all these things are revealed, which is were the Holy Spirit dwells. God does not speak to man's brain, nor does man hear his voice with his ears, nor does he see the things not seen with his physical eyes.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- God created us with brains or we wouldn't be able to learn how to use a computer or read or drive a car or become whatever we are career / job-wise.

With our brain, we memorize His Word -- with our brains we can learn to translate Bible from one language to another.

And, yes, the Holy Spirit teaches us in our hearts, through our brains.

 

[Sue D.]

@Adz -- "a natural aptitutude for management doesn't count" -- I'd disagree - ".... governing."

In the 1 Corinthians passage -- 12:28 "..... those with gifts of administration ....".

 

[Curtis]

Curtis -- God created us with brains or we wouldn't be able to learn how to use a computer or read or drive a car or become whatever we are career / job-wise.

With our brain, we memorize His Word -- with our brains we can learn to translate Bible from one language to another.

And, yes, the Holy Spirit teaches us in our hearts, through our brains.

The "carnal" mind (physical brain) is the enemy of God, which is why we are told to "renew" our minds with the Word of God.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

It is with the heart (man's spirit) that man believes, and understands the word of God. If you trying to use your brain to understand scriptures you always get it wrong.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- a person reads God's Word with their brain first -- our brain processes information.

And I beg to differ with you on that one point. No one will 'always get it wrong' -- because it is by hearing/ reading the Word of God that brings faith. Faith/ salvation.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis -- a person reads God's Word with their brain first -- our brain processes information.

And I beg to differ with you on that one point. No one will 'always get it wrong' -- because it is by hearing/ reading the Word of God that brings faith. Faith/ salvation.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

When you believed in Jesus did you use your brain to believe or your heart?

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh. The brain in your head is flesh. Are you welcoming what your flesh (brain) is telling you, and not what you heart tells you?

The Word of God is Jesus Christ, and his voice can not be heard with the ears on your head, that are connected to your brain. Faith comes by hearing the voice of Jesus.(the Word of God)

 

[Adziilii]

Rom 12:8d . . If you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly.

That would probably correspond to incidents like the one depicted in the parable of the man attacked by road agents in Luke 10:30-36. In that instance, a passerby had the skills and the wherewithal to provide care for a total stranger in need.

Personally, I'm not much at first aid and/or emergency medical services. But what we're getting at here is that should you find yourself in circumstances where you can be of genuine, effective assistance; don't lend a hand grudging. It ought to make Christians happy to be of assistance instead of getting irritated and grumpy about an unexpected inconvenience.

A solo Pacific Crest Trail hiker named Cheryl Strayed, in her book WILD, recounts an evening wherein she was very low on funds and having no luck locating a suitable place in the woods to set up her tent before it got really dark. Cheryl found her way into a fee campground and set up at the extreme end of the facility where she thought no one would mind; but later that night the caretakers came by and, in a not-so-friendly tone, insisted that she either pay the $12 fee or break camp and leave.

The "Christian" thing to do would have been to pay the fee for her instead of forcing a woman to wander out into the pitch black forest all alone at night.

NOTE: The law is the law and rules are rules that's true; but according to Jesus' teachings; there are instances when human need-- e.g. health, safety, and welfare --come first. His hard-hearted, strictly by-the-book, religious opponents just couldn't get that through their thick skulls. (cf. Ex 1:15-21)
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[Sue D.]

@ Adz -- the caretaker did have a job to do.

 

[Adziilii]

Rom 12:9a . . Don't just pretend that you love others.

Webster's defines "pretense" as fiction, make-believe, and/or simulation. Ironically, pretense is foundational to ordinary civility and common courtesy. But when it comes to love; Christians should never put on a front. In other words: don't lead someone on to believe you care about them when in reality you don't. That's not only dishonest; it's cruel.

I once asked a rather incompetent Sunday school teacher, in so many words, whether feelings play a role in Christianity. He said that feelings are emotions and therefore insignificant. Well; I have to disagree.

"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies" (Col 3:12)

The koiné Greek word for "bowels" in that passage is splagchnon (splangkh'-non) which basically refers to one's intestines; i.e. our tummy; which says to me that bowels of mercies are emotions rather than just good manners.

In other words: real love isn't a non emotional academic concept; it contains things like pity, sympathy, empathy, compassion, thoughtfulness, and sensitivity. Real love is easily mimicked, but not all that easy to feel; especially by people who, by nature, are more monster than human.
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[Sue D.]

We're told in the New Testament the two greatest commandments being To 'love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul and then your neighbor as yourself."

A believer shouldn't have to be putting on any front of loving people.

You sound a bit 'down' on Sunday School teachers. God created us as sociable people so we Do have feelings/ emotions. Maybe what he was getting at is that he's seen "emotionalism" getting into churches. Sometimes pastors will purposely be stirring up people's emotions and they make important decisions in the 'emotion of the moment' Rather than understanding what salvation is all about. And some people Are more emotional than others.

Well -- can't a person feel pity for a person without loving them? I can feel pity for the person who Does go out driving after drinking and gets into a wreck. It messes him/ her up, affects the family hurts someone Without 'loving' the person.

Maybe saying that 'love' can be shown in many ways. I love my grandmother differently than my pet dog or ice cream or my husband -- I Show it differently.

Body language speaks volumes.

"bowels of mercies "-- our intestines --our inner being. An interesting phrase. As believers we are to put on / give / show mercy to others. Graciousness, forgiveness when they don't deserve it. God has extended His mercy to us -- we are to in turn show it to others.

 

[Adziilii]

Rom 12:9b . . Hate what is evil.

Hating evil is second nature to God-fearing people; or at least it should be.

"You who love Yhvh: hate evil." (Ps 97:10)

"In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil." (Job 1:1)

"The fear of The Lord is to hate evil. Pride and arrogance and the evil way, and the perverted mouth, I hate." (Prv 8:13)

I think it's fair to say that when somebody hates the same things that God hates, and loves the same things that God loves; the two of them have the makings of a rapport: defined by Webster's as a friendly, harmonious relationship-- especially a relationship characterized by agreement, mutual understanding, or empathy that makes communication possible or easy.
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[Adziilii]

Rom 12:9c . . Cling to what is good.

The Greek word translated "good" is agathos (ag-ath-os') which refers to good in just about every sense imaginable, e.g. beneficial, fitting, suitable, acceptable, adequate, all right, alright, creditable, decent, fine, useful, commendable, nice, OK (or okay), passable, respectable, satisfactory, serviceable, sufficient, well-- everything from doing good, tasting good, looking good, to sounding good, etc.

Christian CEOs on the boards of multi-national corporations have my sympathy. Good luck complying with Rom 12:9c.

I recently watched a very interesting documentary on NetFlix that analyzed corporations; and they found that corporations, as a personality, typically exhibit all five of the psychopathic behaviors listed below.

• Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.

• Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.

• Reckless disregard for the safety of others.

• Deceit and dissembling; viz: repeated lying, suppressing information, stretching the truth, and conning others for profit.

• Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors.

One of corporate America's more shameful management practices is the exploitation of foreign poverty, cheap labor, defenseless employees, minimal safety requirements, and hardly any environmental regulations in order to keep costs down and the bottom lines of quarterly reports up. It's all about profits with corporations; and nowhere has that been more prevalent than the manufacture of textiles and garments.
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[Adziilii]

Rom 12:10a . . Love each other with genuine affection

Real affection is easy to imitate, but not so easy to duplicate. Going through the motions is just not the same as feeling the feelings.

There are people in this world who are affection-challenged. They can't even feel anything for their own children, let alone other people. For them, parenting is a nightmare rather than a dream come true. Their children are a burden rather than a blessing. Children ruin those parents' lives instead of brightening them up and making their lives more worth the living.

When affection-challenged people decide to follow Christ, they're up against it because Christianity is a faith that works by love rather than by law.

Though someone were to comply with every rule that I've posted on this thread thus far and yet be affection-challenged, they're as Paul described in his first epistle to the Corinthians as resounding gongs and clanging cymbals. Those are percussion instruments; they don't carry a tune or a melody; they just make noise.

However, affection-challenged people aren't entirely hopeless because Christianity isn't a do-it-yourself religion; it's a supernatural religion.

● Rom 8:11 . . If the spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His spirit, who lives in you.

Some might argue that verse is talking about the future. Well; their argument is okay as far as it goes, but doesn't go far enough. It's futile to resurrect a mortal body because it would be still be mortal; i.e. vulnerable to disease, aging, and death. No, the "life" that Rom 8:11 is talking about is a benefit package defined as the fruit of the Spirit; spoken of in Gal 5:19-25. One of the benefits in that package is love.

A heads up to affection-challenged people: The fruit of the Spirit comes with some negative side effects. Though its love will make you a better human being, it will also make you pretty miserable at times too because love gets into your heart and makes you sensitive, compassionate, and empathetic. If you've never felt those kinds of feelings before, then they would be overwhelming were they to come upon you in full power. Fortunately the fruit of the Spirit doesn't come on people all at once; instead, love sort of grows on people a little at a time; sort of like gradually bringing a frog up to the boiling point by starting him out in cold water.

Of course the process is lethal to the frog; but I'm only using the doomed amphibian as an analogy rather than a reality. The fruit of the Spirit is life rather than death. So the fruit gradually brings people up from a cold dead heart to a warm living heart.
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[Sue D.]

Adz -- aren't some of the fruits of having the Holy Spirit indwelling a person --- love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness. etc. There Are different kinds Of Love and various ways any of those kinds of love can be shown.

No one usually wakes up one day to find out they just became a mother. There is Always another person involved. Well -- sometimes people Do get drunk / high on drugs and do 'end up' pregnant. And don't know who the father of the child is. And, yes, there Are people who unable to 'connect' with others in a healthy way. Neglect / abuse can be the result.

Your phrasing -- "come on you in full power' --- well -- immediately upon salvation, the Holy Spirit Does come and indwell the person. A Wonderful 'thing'. And 'love' Can break a person's heart. But not all the time. And, yes, it Is part of being a person. One of the aspects of the Holy Spirit is 'healing the broken hearted".

Backing up to your post # 36. I'm curious as to what country you are from / live in now. All of a sudden you are Down on the U.S. A.

And back up to # 31 rendering aid in a time of an emergency. I'm assuming you're a man -- You can probably do more in an emergency situation than I would as a woman. In This country -- police warn drivers about stopping to offer aid Because there are those who purposely set up a situation to be harmful to innocent helpers. It's been suggested that the safe way to handle it is to drive past and then then find a gas station or a safe place to contact the police / high way patrol.

Coming up on a vehicular wreck -- call it in 1st and then wait for rescue to come. They are the pros. No one is going to try to 'sue' anyone because of what you 'supposedly' did trying to help them.

And, if someone rear-ends you -- if someone rear-ended Me - by myself. I would Not get out of my car -- I'd have my 'phone' and call 911 for help.

Here in the 'states' the 1st person at the scene is required to call for assistance and stay at the scene until help does come

 

[Adziilii]

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Rom 12:10b . . Honor others over yourselves.

Christians infected with narcissistic personality disorder will find that rule difficult, if not impossible, to obey. It's a mental condition characterized by a grandiose sense of self-importance, a need for excessive admiration, exploitive behavior in relationships, and a lack of empathy.

Narcissistic people are by nature insufferably arrogant, self-absorbed, indifferent, and insensitive. They see nothing wrong with their behavior, nor are they attuned to its impact on others. Were you to confront narcissistic folk with your concerns about their attitude; be prepared for a counterattack because they'll no doubt become indignant and defensive; possibly accusing you of selfishness, jealousy, overreaction, hysteria, and unloving behavior. You see; they're never the problem: you are.

As I was watching a recent series on the National Geographic channel about geniuses; it became readily apparent to me that people in the genius category crave recognition. Albert Einstein and Pablo Picasso are two very good examples. Their contributions to art and science were secondary to their ambitions for greatness. I wouldn't say that all geniuses are like that of course, but apparently the desire for fame is not uncommon among them.

I should think that most alpha achievers would have trouble complying Rom 12:10b too. I mean. why be a winner if not to feel superior to everyone else? The alpha achiever's motto is: It's not enough to succeed: everyone else must fail.

Feelings of value are important to everyone's sense of well being, but the alpha achiever feels only himself to be of any real value; in his mind's eye, those "below" him are of little worth, i.e. expendable and/or a dime a dozen. (cf. Est 6:6, Matt 27:26, Mark 12:38 39, and 3John 1:9)
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[Wired 4 Fishen]

God's Word tells us to hold pastors / teachers accountable for what they are teaching

What Scriptures are you referring to?

I'm thinking just now -- that maybe because the 'cannon is closed' We now have all the Scripture that has been given. That there's no longer the need For prophets.

Prophets deliver a word, a message from God to man.
Until Jesus Comes back and raps this thing up, we will have Prophets

Blessings