Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[Waggles]

So if faith alone always saved is so indisputable then why do the gospels and the epistles have so many warnings for us to keep the faith and to remain steadfast and diligent??
Oh look here is another one from dozens to choose from
Galatians 6:
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted.
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

 

[Waggles]

This applies 100% to everyone before the cross.
You, BAC and Downunder are preaching half the truth

Well here you are on this public forum standing on your soapbox and pouring out slander upon others in the faith.
You are very quick to rebuke others as wrong and now satanic because your doctrinal viewpoint has made you self righteous.
And yet you consistently demonstrate that you do not have understanding of the scriptures. Some of your responses are without knowledge or wisdom as to the meaning and intent of what scripture teaches.
Proverbs is not merely scripture written before the cross. The word of God contains the same moral code and purposes before the cross and after the cross.
The application of the Law and the commandments changed from a temple building with a Levitical priesthood in Jerusalem to disciples being individually temples of the living God with Jesus as our High Priest.
But the spiritual meaning and purpose of the OT is equivalent to the NT. and this is mentioned in the gospels, Acts and the epistles.
Here is a prophecy in Psalm 40 - it is OT but is equally valid and applies to us as Christian disciples today -
7 Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me: 8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”
Just because this was written before the cross does not make it out of date or not spiritual in meaning and intent.
In fact it is a prophecy concerning Spirit-filled Christians under the New Covenant made with the house of Israel, and it is about the law of liberty that we would enjoy after Pentecost.
It also states that the Law is still living and to be the content of our hearts.

to be continued in next dialogue box

 

[Waggles]

Proverbs is not just old time OT scripture before the cross. Rather Proverbs is unique and extraordinary in its placement at the centre of the OT - 19 books either side.
The wisdom of Proverbs applies to both those under the Law and to us as Christians; for it is a book of wisdom aiding discernment and prudence for righteous living.
There is nothing in Proverbs spiritually that is obsolete for Christians of today.
PROVERBS 17 verse 2
(ESV) A servant who deals wisely will rule over a son who acts shamefully and will share the inheritance as one of the brothers.
(KJV) A wise servant shall have rule over a son that causeth shame, and shall have part of the inheritance among the brethren.
(LITV) A servant who acts prudently shall rule over a son who causes shame, and he shall have part of the inheritance among the brothers.
(WEB) A servant who deals wisely will rule over a son who causes shame, and shall have a part in the inheritance among the brothers.
(YLT) A wise servant ruleth over a son causing shame, And in the midst of brethren He apportioneth an inheritance.

This admonition is as true today as when it was written.
It warns all of us that a son (Romans 8:15-17) can be replaced by another who is not considered a son but only a servant - this spiritual truth should keep us on our toes and walking in love faithfully.
What this scriptures teaches us that in the end Spirit-filled Christians who do not enter the Kingdom of God will have their allocated places given to others who were not Spirit-filled but deemed wise and worthy by God.
So keep the commandments of God and do not weary in doing good; do not faint over time.

 

[Waggles]

The Beginning of Knowledge
Proverbs 1:
1 The proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel:
2 To know wisdom and instruction, to understand words of insight,
3 to receive instruction in wise dealing, in righteousness, justice, and equity;
:4 to give prudence to the simple, knowledge and discretion to the youth -
:5 Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance,
6 to understand a proverb and a saying, the words of the wise and their riddles.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[KingJ]

Well here you are on this public forum standing on your soapbox and pouring out slander upon others in the faith.
You are very quick to rebuke others as wrong and now satanic because your doctrinal viewpoint has made you self righteous.
And yet you consistently demonstrate that you do not have understanding of the scriptures. Some of your responses are without knowledge or wisdom as to the meaning and intent of what scripture teaches.
Proverbs is not merely scripture written before the cross. The word of God contains the same moral code and purposes before the cross and after the cross.
The application of the Law and the commandments changed from a temple building with a Levitical priesthood in Jerusalem to disciples being individually temples of the living God with Jesus as our High Priest.
But the spiritual meaning and purpose of the OT is equivalent to the NT. and this is mentioned in the gospels, Acts and the epistles.
Here is a prophecy in Psalm 40 - it is OT but is equally valid and applies to us as Christian disciples today -
7 Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me: 8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”
Just because this was written before the cross does not make it out of date or not spiritual in meaning and intent.
In fact it is a prophecy concerning Spirit-filled Christians under the New Covenant made with the house of Israel, and it is about the law of liberty that we would enjoy after Pentecost.
It also states that the Law is still living and to be the content of our hearts.

to be continued in next dialogue box

I gave reasons for my statements. If you want to discuss you need to learn to quote and properly read posts before you reply.

 

[KingJ]

Proverbs is not just old time OT scripture before the cross. Rather Proverbs is unique and extraordinary in its placement at the centre of the OT - 19 books either side.
The wisdom of Proverbs applies to both those under the Law and to us as Christians; for it is a book of wisdom aiding discernment and prudence for righteous living.
There is nothing in Proverbs spiritually that is obsolete for Christians of today.
PROVERBS 17 verse 2
(ESV) A servant who deals wisely will rule over a son who acts shamefully and will share the inheritance as one of the brothers.
(KJV) A wise servant shall have rule over a son that causeth shame, and shall have part of the inheritance among the brethren.
(LITV) A servant who acts prudently shall rule over a son who causes shame, and he shall have part of the inheritance among the brothers.
(WEB) A servant who deals wisely will rule over a son who causes shame, and shall have a part in the inheritance among the brothers.
(YLT) A wise servant ruleth over a son causing shame, And in the midst of brethren He apportioneth an inheritance.

This admonition is as true today as when it was written.
It warns all of us that a son (Romans 8:15-17) can be replaced by another who is not considered a son but only a servant - this spiritual truth should keep us on our toes and walking in love faithfully.
What this scriptures teaches us that in the end Spirit-filled Christians who do not enter the Kingdom of God will have their allocated places given to others who were not Spirit-filled but deemed wise and worthy by God.
So keep the commandments of God and do not weary in doing good; do not faint over time.

I did not say we cannot learn from Proverbs.

What are you going to discuss next, the weather?

Maybe quote a post by me and speak to something I actually said?

Calling out other Christians as satanic is not wise.

I called the doctrine satanic. Maybe you should better read replies before you reply?

 

[KingJ]

Was this written before or after the cross?
1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

What are the NT commandments BAC? Stone adulterer's to death?

1Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
2Jn 1:6; And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

Note 1 John 2:4 ''the truth is not in him''. The commandments from Jesus can ''ONLY'' be kept if we have had a nature change. How many times must I say this to you? You are truly hard headed.

Before Jesus = Eye for an eye. After the cross / Jesus's teachings = turn the left cheek.

Trying telling a Jew to turn the left cheek.....

Did Jesus say this before or after the cross?

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Matt 28:19; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matt 28:20; teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Yes, Amen, like this ''command''

John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

 

[Born Again 2004]

@KingJ A special thanks to @Downunder and @B-A-C for opening my eyes as far as you have. I now realize with clarity that an anti-OSAS belief is borderline satanic."

Well so much for the fruit of the spirit.
I pray that you have asbestos underwear in your wardrobe ...
Calling out other Christians as satanic is not wise.
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Matthew 5:22

The key word here is BROTHER! As in Christ!

 

[B-A-C]

What are the NT commandments BAC? Stone adulterer's to death?

This is probably another thread, but most of the 616 commands of the Talmud have been deprecated.
The 10 commandments remain, some were added to and even made more difficult.
The ceremonial law is deprecated (circumcision, priests, animal sacrifice, etc...)
A lot of this changed in the sermon on the mount, but all of the 10 commandments except the (sabbath day) are repeated in the NT.
Most of them are repeated in letters from Paul to the Gentiles ( such as Eph 6:2; for example )
All of this is in the Bible if you know where to look.

The sermon on the mount ( Matt 5, 6 and 7 ) has some of this.
Some of it is verses such as Romans 13:9;
Acts 10 is where the food restrictions changed.
I'm not at a computer currently, but it might be good to make a thread about this.

 

[KingJ]

1Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

After my wife married me I can expect her to not commit adultery. If she does, she lied about her vows and is a devil. No adultery is a commandment she must obey in marriage.

When God grafts us in, He does not make the mistake of marrying a devil. This verse is an instruction to us. A ''rule / acid test'' against which we can examine ourselves and others. There is not an acid test for God and His acceptance of us into His family. He is not a fool...who grafts a devil into His family. How many times must I say this to you before it sinks in? We are the fools.

Then, if we read on we see more context.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one
15 If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

[KingJ]

This is probably another thread, but most of the 616 commands of the Talmud have been deprecated.
The 10 commandments remain, some were added to and even made more difficult.
The ceremonial law is deprecated (circumcision, priests, animal sacrifice, etc...)
A lot of this changed in the sermon on the mount, but all of the 10 commandments except the (sabbath day) are repeated in the NT.
Most of them are repeated in letters from Paul to the Gentiles ( such as Eph 6:2; for example )
All of this is in the Bible if you know where to look.

The sermon on the mount ( Matt 5, 6 and 7 ) has some of this.
Some of it is verses such as Romans 13:9;
Acts 10 is where the food restrictions changed.
I'm not at a computer currently, but it might be good to make a thread about this.

I wish you could grasp how your post reads. It sounds like you are starting Judaism 2.0.

 

[KingJ]

1Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The first part is basically saying ''we know a lamb is a lamb because a lamb does things 'The' Lamb taught us. Please note the last part of this verse. The Holy Spirit gives us confirmation as to whether or not Jesus abides in us. Such a confirmation comes only after God judges our hearts Jer 17:9-10.

God did not give Judas a revelation of Jesus as He did Peter in Matt 16:16-17, fact. This revelation of Jesus was not a revelation Peter had had before. He walked with Jesus, had faith unlike any disciple, but he still needed / received something further. A revelation from above of who Jesus was. After this revelation, we see that though he denied Jesus, he repented and served Jesus with all his strength up to his death.

Can you name a Christian in scripture that went astray after accepting Jesus? Paul was a murderer, he accepted Jesus and his life changed 100%. He did not have to daily examine himself and say '''I better not murder, else I will lose my salvation'' . He lost all desire to murder. He battled with venial sins only Rom 7:15. As we all do.

I just don't understand your belief BAC. Do you count your venial sins and if you exceed ten a day you know you are en route to losing your salvation? What is your cut-off? How do you know when you are good enough to be saved? Do you go for self control lessons? Losing temper / get angry three times a day = lose salvation?

Meditate on the fact that if someone took a bullet for me in the army, they would be welcome in my house for all eternity, despite the fact that they may not bath and do cuss regularly.

Christianity 101 = Depth of intent. John 15:13 is important to grasp.

This fact is crystal clear in the tribulation. Note how Rev 2:10 says only torture and death = heaven. No amount of keeping '''any'' other commandment holds water. Surely, God expects the same level of devotion now? Being reborn is not a fickle Mickey Mouse decision.

We need a thread dedicated to what it takes to become a born again Christian.

 

[Downunder]

We need a thread dedicated to what it takes to become a born again Christian.

That sure is going to separate the chaff from the wheat.
Oh and do not think that everybody sees how you skip over and ignore weighty posts revealing the meaning of scripture from the OT.
Obviously went straight over your head.

 

[Waggles]

When God grafts us in, He does not make the mistake of marrying a devil. This verse is an instruction to us. A ''rule / acid test'' against which we can examine ourselves and others. There is not an acid test for God and His acceptance of us into His family. He is not a fool...who grafts a devil into His family. How many times must I say this to you before it sinks in? We are the fools.

Speak for yourself. Do not paint others with the same brush you use.

But in one way or another unsaved people who get converted by the gospel and the Holy Spirit were devils. And certainly in my church we have several outstanding testimonies as to how people who were into witchcraft burned or dumped all their books on magic and witchcraft paraphernalia after they were baptised in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

 

[Downunder]

2Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God according to the promise of the life that is in Christ Jesus,
1:2 To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
2Tim 2:11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.
Paul writing to Timothy and to other Pentecostal Christians of the church of God - not Jews, not unbelievers.

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Waggles]

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

 

[B-A-C]

Can you name a Christian in scripture that went astray after accepting Jesus?

Demas, Annanias, Sapphira.

 

[B-A-C]

I just don't understand your belief BAC. Do you count your venial sins and if you exceed ten a day you know you are en route to losing your salvation? What is your cut-off? How do you know when you are good enough to be saved? Do you go for self control lessons? Losing temper / get angry three times a day = lose salvation?

What exactly is a venial sin?

 

[High Premise]

Beyond being saved? I'm sure you mean beyond the spirit being initially regenerated.
Being more to the point, salvation is three-fold, "spirit soul and body" - I Thess 5:23.

 

[Downunder]

What exactly is a venial sin?

OH that is only for the initiated - those of us who grew up with a RC catechism; full of how to live rules and doctrine broken down into digestible amounts.
You do not know what you missed out on. Religious instruction classes were the font of many amazing imaginative convolutions of doctrinal questions about "what if" someone was going to get baptised and on the way the died in a car accident. But the Master of the lesson always had an answer: for the Jesuits and the Dominicans had thought up every scenario and written an answer suitable for any question from troublesome youngsters.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified
Distinguishing Mortal and Venial Sins (1854-1855)
The distinction between mortal and venial sins is evident from Scripture, part of the Church's Tradition, and corroborated by experience.
By mortal sin (a grave violation of God's law) man destroys charity, turns away from God, and chooses an inferior good. Venial sin offends charity but allows it to continue in the soul.
Explaining Mortal Sin (1856)
Mortal sin, because it attacks charity, requires God's mercy and a conversion of heart. This is normally accomplished in the sacrament of Reconciliation. When the will chooses something which is incompatible with love for God (such as blasphemy) or against love for neighbour (homicide or adultery) the sin is mortal.
"When the will is set upon a disorder not totally opposed to charity (as thoughtlessness) such sins are venial" (St. Thomas Aquinas).