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Discussion in 'Introduction' started by Steven, Feb 7, 2016.
That I be
And much of what I say is me preaching to myself because I am a Christian living in America who has not gone through any real persecution.
I do believe there is a difference between "tribulation" in general, what is called the "Great Tribulation" and "God's Wrath" which might fall within that time frame. However, what I do know is that we won't be experiencing the latter. Below are the verses that mention the Wrath of God being unleashed.
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: ... 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Revelation 14:10,19
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. ... 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 15:1, 7
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Revelation 16:1
For we were not meant to receive God's wrath. That is for the unbeliever.
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 5:9
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Romans 5:9
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Ephesians 5:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Colossians 3:6
The real question becomes. So when is what was mentioned in Revelation supposed to happen? For this is God's vengeance being done.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Romans 12:19
Once again. So at what time period are the vials opened? I really can't say. @Steven or some of the other Brothers & Sisters in Christ may be able to assist or already have that information available.
To me what really drives this is that we will not be recipients of God's Wrath, because our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ took it upon Himself, so we would not have to.
Whether in my life time or not, regardless of what transpires.
I thank-you my Lord Jesus, for your sacrifice and await your return. That I might prostrate myself and worship you. For you are worthy of all honor, glory and praise. Amen.
I don't know ONE Christian who doesn't believe God's word about His PROMISE that we will all suffer persecution. I have suffered it. However, the Tribulation that the world has NEVER experienced before and will befall the world (wrath) is for the world, not for the Church.
Thank you so much brothers and sisters in Christ. Thank you for responding. This is what I enjoy!!!
Glad to oblige!
Yes I think that we
Yes I agree with Thesalonians 5:9. Jesus took our wrath on the cross. Websters Dictionary 1828. God's Wrath; Is his holy and just indignation against sin. And Jesus paid that price for us. Persecution; Punishment or death for adhering to a religious creed or mode of worship. Tribulation; Severe affliction often denotes the troubles and distresses which proceed from persecution. God's wrath is not persecution or tribulation, but persecution and tribulation is very similar. We know there are Christians in the book of Revelation. Those that have the seal of God. And the seal of God is mentioned in John 3:33, John 6:27, Ephesians 4:30. Revelation 9:4 The Angels of God were told to only hurt those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Yes according to Gods word no Christians experience Gods wrath in the great tribulation. Matthew 24:3 And he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Verse 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Yes Jesus spoke to the disciples in private. To say he was referring to the Jewish people is speculation.
In the Great Tribulation there will be people coming to Christ---mostly Jews, as that is God's focus, and the main thrust of the 144.000 witnesses and the two prophets. Millions will lose their lives during the horrendous cataclysmic and global events that will occur. Many people who suffer and die will be new believers---as the Church will have been removed.
Okay for anyone to answer.
When is the day of the Lord?
Well said. I have challenged my american and British fellow Christians more than once on this Forum in respect to their delusional doctrines of being worthy to escape
the tribulation coming upon the whole world - but meanwhile elsewhere overseas, as you mentioned, Christians are already undergoing immense persecutions and martyrdom.
What makes those in the West think they are too good to suffer this for the faith? I think very much it arises out of the degradation of the original Pentecost apostolic gospel
preaching over the decades to now become a feel good prosperity gospel where the real expression of your love for Jesus is being entertained by praise n worship music.
Suffering through tribulation, holding fast to that which is good, praying in the Spirit, obedience to the Word of God, being water baptized by full immersion, repentenance,
the fear of God and judgment, departing from unrighteousness - these it would seem are no longer fashionable, not longer required.
Being raptured before the tribulation avoids messy complications as to believing the original gospel preached by the Apostles with signs following.
The greatest tragedy of TV evangelists and others making much money from the gospel preaching is that they are leading millions of people to destruction and the loss
of their faiths. If you've always been told that everyone - some nebulous population embracing a multitude or plethora of faiths and doctrines = "The Church" - are ALL
going to beamed up to the mother ship: then what happens to faith when this does not happen?
No wonder Jesus asked the question, "when the Son of Man returns will he find faith on the earth?"
Recently I posted a Youtube video on this Forum challenging the pre-tribulation rapture and the gospel preaching of some of America's richest and prosperity
gospel preachers and how they are leading believers astray. It didn't go down too well, and many were offended buy its graphic content...
I am supposed to give viewers a warning before they watch this!
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING VIDEO CONTAINS STRONG GRAPHIC CONTENT AND PICTURES.
NOT SUITABLE FOR MINORS
Thank you. Our God is Faithful. Maybe you would like to answer my question? When is The Day Of The Lord?
Sorry, you got the right answer in your video. Good video. Thank you!!!
well there lies the crux of the problem - who are believers and in what? Who are unbelievers, what is it that they do not believe?
Who or what is "The Church?"
Generally, the answers are pretty namby pamby and all embracing.
All true believers in Christ Jesus! That might be a significantly smaller population than most think. True believers MUST worship in Spirit and in truth.
Jesus said that believers would have these signs following (Mark 16:15-20) yet most Christians deny this and have no such signs as promised by Jesus.
THE CHURCH let's not leave anybody out. Every preacher and every evangelist and pretty well every faith claims to be THE CHURCH.
I believe that those who will be spared this great and terrible sequence of tribulations - war, nuclear and conventional, radiation poisoning (wormwood), pestilence,
collapse of the economy and law and order, social chaos, etc. etc. an asteroid coming down it would seem, earthquakes, tsunamis and much more -
are the saints - that is those who believe and practice the original Pentecostal Apostolic gospel with signs following.
If you do not have this then you are an unbeliever and not of THE CHURCH. Read the scriptures, read Acts, read the epistles.
The "day" our Lord God Jesus returns to stand on the Mount of Olives and to enter what's left of Jerusalem.
Read the minor prophets [the books after Daniel] they have the most information on the second coming of our Lord Jesus.
Zephaniah and Zechariah along with Malachi give detailed descriptions on Armageddon and the war against Judah and Jerusalem.
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh
shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Well not exactly. Thanks for the video brother.
When is The Day Of The Lord?
Yes all true.v1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:11 The Day Of The Lord is also when Jesus returns as a thief in the night! That is the resurrection, the rapture!!!
Below is a link to this thread you mention above. You and anyone else are welcome to read it again. I do appreciate that you did heed my request in posting a warning before hand, instead just allowing the short film to do so in its opening. As far as not going down to well. Not too many replies, but worth getting the proper perspective on the "many" you speak of.
The Beginning of Sorrows 2016 truthfilm777 | Talk Jesus Forums
A little perspective brother.
Persecution can be real, self induced, or even made up.
Also a little discernment can go a long way from knowing right from almost right.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Persecution is not made up or make believe, nor exaggerated. We may only to date have to endure unbelief and scoffers, but elsewhere
Christians of many faiths are copping it in the neck.