baptized with water and the holy spirit

[Truthcomber]

Matt 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Me: The seed here is the spiritual seed or of the soul. This is the same seed that was implanted in Abraham and Isaac and later David. It was the same seed that Adam later acquired after his fall (Genesis 3:15). It is the same seed that is implanted in the church members today from different races and groups of people around the world. It was a seed that grew in Christ into a great tree in Matt 13:31-32 below. It is the tree of life. It is the seed of faith. Abraham showed the greatest adherence of faith and demonstration of this seed.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed (me: of the soul of the Messiah that will be) nature of Abraham”.

Matt 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Me: This is the river of life (John 7:38) that the dead prior to John 5:25 will grow into when they hear the voice of the Messiah calling them to eternal life.



Me: It is from this seed that grew into tree of the soul of Christ that the righteous put on new bodies.



1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (Me: seed): 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body…40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Me: It will be made in the image of the old physical, but now is celestial.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,





After Adam’s sin, man could not become the sons of the new Adam through the flesh but through th e soul of Christ.


In Genesis 6, the sons of Gods (angels) left their present dwelling (bodies) or angelic bodies and put on bodies of flesh. They then copulated with the human females who bore giants in physical and mental stature. The genes provide by these angels were similar to those of the first adamic race. Their offspring could produce children. This was a counterfeit of the coming race of man that the Messiah would be the Adam of. Thus, man could not be the offspring of the Messiah directly, but through the soul of the new adamic race from the second Adam.


Click the link below.
Jude 1:6 REV and Commentary - And also the angels, who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling - Bible verse


Psalms 51:1 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.) Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.


Me: king david had entered Bathsheba through human soul of David though his *****. Bathsheba had similarly entered David


Me: They became one “flesh” or soul.


Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.


Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Me: The church becomes the bride of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:27, Revelation 19:7) and one like one being (soul) like the first Adam became one flesh with his wife (Genesis 2:24). This comes about directly through the soul of Christ.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Me: The spiritual seed of Abraham is not passed down or inherited generation to generation. It is implanted discriminately.


Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac (me: and not Ishmael) shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Sue D.]

All born-again believers = the Church = the Bride of Christ.

And, yes, all of the verses you've mentioned Are in God's Word. Their useage is maybe questionable.

Your first sentence kind of 'lost' me. Not really sure What you're saying. Somehow it doesn't sound quite right. Some of your explanation of Genesis 6 is a little 'questionable'. There's another poster who talks about 'another Adamic race'. About the line that Christ would come through. That the genes provided through the angels were similar to those of the 1st Adamic race?1

You're talking about a 'first Adamic race' -- there was no other race. Everyone came from Adam and Eve.

????????????????

 

[Born Again 2004]

You can be baptized by the Holy Spirit in or out of the water!

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Sue D

I am not talking about a pre-Adamic race. I am speaking of two Adamic races. The first came through Adam and Eve. The second Adam is Christ. He is the originator of a new race of humans built on the first race through Eve and the second one to flesh that did not have sin and death in it through the male side. Who was the biological father of Christ? It was not Joseph as I hope I have shown you. The male chromosomes for the Messiah were created directly by God through the holy spirit.

Luke 1:35 Interlinear: And the messenger answering said to her, 'The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Me: Christ was begotten by the spirit of God by male genes outside of the gene pool descendants of the first Adam. His Mother provided the female chromosomes. I showed an example of the male genes provided outside the first Adam gene pool by the nephilim by the article that I referred you to. Christ was the only one unique son of God with the holy spirit in him at resurrection and glorification. He is the second Adam. He was made a little below angels on earth in the flesh. He became fully the son of God by his resurrection and glorification, made so much higher than the angels. We become sons of God through Christ by being baptized of the holy spirit.


Luke 1:15 Interlinear: for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother's womb;
Strong's Greek: 1537. ἐκ (ek or ex) -- from, from out of

Young's Literal Translation
Luke 1:15 for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even FROM his mother's womb;

Me: only Christ was born of the holy spirit at conception. He is THE Son of God by the resurrection and glorification. He is the beginning of the new creation. He is the new Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (YLT) so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit.

 

[Truthcomber]

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Born again 2004



You: You can be born of the holy spirit inside or outside of water.


Me: Yes



Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (me: water baptized), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Me: But if possible, we should be water baptized to show our open commitment to calling upon the name of Christ to save us.

 

[Sue D.]

Hi Sue D

I am not talking about a pre-Adamic race. I am speaking of two Adamic races. The first came through Adam and Eve. The second Adam is Christ. He is the originator of a new race of humans built on the first race through Eve and the second one to flesh that did not have sin and death in it through the male side. Who was the biological father of Christ? It was not Joseph as I hope I have shown you. The male chromosomes for the Messiah were created directly by God through the holy spirit.

Luke 1:35 Interlinear: And the messenger answering said to her, 'The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Me: Christ was begotten by the spirit of God by male genes outside of the gene pool descendants of the first Adam. His Mother provided the female chromosomes. I showed an example of the male genes provided outside the first Adam gene pool by the nephilim by the article that I referred you to. Christ was the only one unique son of God with the holy spirit in him at resurrection and glorification. He is the second Adam. He was made a little below angels on earth in the flesh. He became fully the son of God by his resurrection and glorification, made so much higher than the angels. We become sons of God through Christ by being baptized of the holy spirit.


Luke 1:15 Interlinear: for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother's womb;
Strong's Greek: 1537. ἐκ (ek or ex) -- from, from out of

Young's Literal Translation
Luke 1:15 for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even FROM his mother's womb;

Me: only Christ was born of the holy spirit at conception. He is THE Son of God by the resurrection and glorification. He is the beginning of the new creation. He is the new Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (YLT) so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit.

Where are you getting your info from? It's Not in Scripture -- there is only One Adam and Eve that God created. Well -- Actually God created Adam out of the dust of the earth and gave him life. He took a rib out of Adam and made Eve.

Jesus Christ is not a second Adam.

Joseph was the human biological father of Jesus -- so His legal Jewish parents were Mary and Joseph. But the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and over-shadowed her and she became pregnant with Jesus Christ. who was God incarnate.

Jesus Christ was Always deity -- He was given a place of honor -- sitting at the right hand of God the Father after He ascended back up to heaven After having died on the cross and rose from the dead -- He provided for our salvation.

'we' become a son or daughter of God when 'we' accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell a person at that time. He never leaves the born-again believer. The only other 'baptism' is when a person is outwardly physically baptized by immersion to acknowledge his / her already inner decision To accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- it demonstrated that the person believes that Jesus Christ Did die and was buried and rose from the dead -- 'we' are being brought up Out of the water to demonstrate Our new life in Christ. BUT -- Sometimes a person Can't be water baptized due to their personal set of circumstances. So baptism is Not part of salvation.

We -- as human beings-- were created 'a little lower than the angelic world'.

The God-head = God the Father -- Jesus Christ His Son -- and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sue D.]

There are not two Adamic races. Only one.

 

[Truthcomber]

There are two Adams, the one in Genesis and the one in 1 Corinthians 15:45

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Christ) was made a quickening spirit.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Me: I showed you many scriptures. Christ is the beginning of the new spiritual creation.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, you Have shown me lots of Scriptures -- It's just your application I don't agree with. The new birth is made possible through the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Born-again believers become new creatures in Christ. he is still deity and we are still human beings.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Susan D

You: Some of the explanations of Genesis 6 is a little “questionable”

Me: That is because you have never study it. They are questionable by you, not by prevailing view of Genesis 6 was that some of the sons of God (angels of God) forsook their angelic habitation or bodies and then committed a grievous sin by co inhabiting with the daughters of men. The results were giants of great stature and intelligence who were wicket to the core. The view that was invented and came later was that the sons of God (Godly line of man) originated from Seth and that the daughters of men originated from Cain. The book of Enoch explains this thoroughly.

Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Truthcomber]

Susan

You: Joseph was the human biological father of Jesus -- so His legal Jewish parents were Mary and Joseph. But the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and over-shadowed her and she became pregnant with Jesus Christ. who was God incarnate.


Me: Joseph was absolutely not the biological father of the Messiah. If he was, then Mary and Joseph would have committed fornication because Christ was conceived before they got married. Jesus was a virgin birth.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the VIRGIN’S name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus...34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

 

[Truthcomber]

Susan,

You: Jesus is God incarnate


Me: No, Jesus was not God incarnate.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Berean Literal Bible
1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come in the flesh is of God,

I John 4:2 (Jubilee Bible 2000) In this know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ, is come in flesh is of God:

Me: It is “come in flesh” and not come in the flesh. “the” is an added word. Jesus (salvation) Christ (anointed) has come in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Susan


You: Jesus Christ was Always deity -- He was given a place of honor -- sitting at the right hand of God the Father after He ascended back up to heaven After having died on the cross and rose from the dead -- He provided for our salvation


Me: No!!! You do err.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God… 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Me: God is NOW both the Father and his Son—both the divine and human are one God.

Right hand of God is an anthropomorphism. God is invisible spirit and does not have a right hand.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Tim 1: 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amien.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Me: The Word is the expression of God. God expressed himself through the Word and created all, even the Messiah. The Messiah was never in heaven before he existed on earth.

 

[Truthcomber]

Susan,


John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Me: Susan tell me how the son of man was slain before the foundation of the earth hath already ascended into heaven and was in heaven while he was here on earth?

Romans 4:17 even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


Me: In God’s mind everything existed before they actually did in our time.



Isa 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

How Many Persons Created the Heavens and the Earth?

How Many Persons Created the Heavens and the Earth

Prov 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself:


Look at the Greek text for Colossians 1:16 “all things through him” . Click on 1223: and 1722.

1223 Definition: through, on account of, because of
Usage: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.



Me: Thus,

Col 1:16 For (me:1722: in) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created (me: 1722n account of), and for him:

Me: All things were created because of Christ. He inherited all things from his father.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

[Sue D.]

Hi Susan D

You: Some of the explanations of Genesis 6 is a little “questionable”

Me: That is because you have never study it. They are questionable by you, not by prevailing view of Genesis 6 was that some of the sons of God (angels of God) forsook their angelic habitation or bodies and then committed a grievous sin by co inhabiting with the daughters of men. The results were giants of great stature and intelligence who were wicket to the core. The view that was invented and came later was that the sons of God (Godly line of man) originated from Seth and that the daughters of men originated from Cain. The book of Enoch explains this thoroughly.

Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4? | GotQuestions.org

Actually, I've studied it a great deal.

And , yes, there Is a debate as to who the 'sons of God' were who came and mingled with some of the beautiful women on earth and had children with them. Their offspring became mighty men of valor.

The book of Enoch is not part of the accepted books of the Canon. Their history cannot be trusted as totally accurate.

And I'm very familiar with 'gotquestians.org' I use it a lot. Just looked it up. He explains all three of the main possibilities. And goes mainly with the first -- that they were fallen angels.

It's some of Your explanations that I'm questioning. And, please, Don't assume that someone has Not studied a subject just because they don't agree with your conclusions.

This explanation I can agree on. -- your original comments No.

 

[Sue D.]

Susan

You: Joseph was the human biological father of Jesus -- so His legal Jewish parents were Mary and Joseph. But the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and over-shadowed her and she became pregnant with Jesus Christ. who was God incarnate.


Me: Joseph was absolutely not the biological father of the Messiah. If he was, then Mary and Joseph would have committed fornication because Christ was conceived before they got married. Jesus was a virgin birth.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the VIRGIN’S name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus...34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

I said that Joseph was the Legal recognized Jewish father of Jesus. And, yes, Marry Was a virgin and After Jesus was born- Then Mary and Joseph came together and Mary continued to have 4 or 5 more children. I just looked back at that other post -- I misspoke by saying that Joseph was the biological father -- I Meant to type that he was Not the biological father. Sorry about that confusion. We Do agree on that.

 

[Sue D.]

Hi Susan


You: Jesus Christ was Always deity -- He was given a place of honor -- sitting at the right hand of God the Father after He ascended back up to heaven After having died on the cross and rose from the dead -- He provided for our salvation


Me: No!!! You do err.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God… 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Me: God is NOW both the Father and his Son—both the divine and human are one God.

Right hand of God is an anthropomorphism. God is invisible spirit and does not have a right hand.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Tim 1: 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amien.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Me: The Word is the expression of God. God expressed himself through the Word and created all, even the Messiah. The Messiah was never in heaven before he existed on earth.

This section is what we apparently have a 'problem' with.

I see what the problem Is. You believe that Jesus' physical birth as a Jewish baby boy was His first time in existence. That God chose to have Mary conceive of the Holy Spirit -- yes. But Jesus did not Earn becoming part of the Godhead Because He willingly died on the cross and was bodily resurrected. He Was given the seat of honor after ascending back into heaven.

He was Immanuel -- God incarnate -- look at Isaiah 7:14 -- 'and they shall call His name Immanuel -- literally meaning God-with-us. And then look at Matthew 1:23 " they shall call His name Immanuel --- which is translated , "God with us."

Jesus Christ didn't need to Become deity -- He was there all along -- back in Genesis 1 :26 "Then said God , "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness....." -- since God is Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Spirit -- the likeness must have been referring to The Word -- and John 1:1 Also says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. vs 2 "He was in the beginning With God." So -- we can see that the Word was Jesus Christ and that He, Jesus Christ , was in the beginning With God. Thus -- the Godhead.

Jesus Christ was the Promised Messiah of the Old Testament

He was seated in a place / position Of honor next to God the Father.

 

[Sue D.]

@Truthcomber -- I've Also noticed that you started out referring to me as Sue and then changed to Susan D. and then plain Susan. Now -- Maybe you're changing that because you're a bit upset with my responses back to you. But -- I really prefer for you to refer to me as 'Sue D.' just so there's no confusion about who you Are talking to. At one point in one Forum there Was a Susan as well as myself. But there's only one of me around here. Sue D.