Baptism in the Holy Spirit

[RJ]

Just listen to what Jesus told Nicodemus
John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

<SUP id=en-NIV-26122 class=versenum>1</SUP> Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. <SUP id=en-NIV-26123 class=versenum>2</SUP> He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

<SUP id=en-NIV-26124 class=versenum>3</SUP> Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.<SUP class=footnote value='[a]'>[a]</SUP>”
<SUP id=en-NIV-26125 class=versenum>4</SUP> “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” <SUP id=en-NIV-26126 class=versenum>5</SUP> Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. <SUP id=en-NIV-26127 class=versenum>6</SUP> Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit<SUP class=footnote value='[b]'>[b]</SUP> gives birth to spirit. <SUP id=en-NIV-26128 class=versenum>7</SUP> You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You<SUP class=footnote value='[c]'>[c]</SUP> must be born again.’ <SUP id=en-NIV-26129 class=versenum>8</SUP> The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”<SUP class=footnote value='[d]'>[d]</SUP>

You can only have 2 births in the Kingdom of God:

One is your physical birth from your mother, we all have that.
There other birth is for only those who have accepted by faith, Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and that is your Spiritual Birth through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Like Jesus himself said: "You must be "Born Again".

I also think that our physical birth and spiritual birth have something very important in common:
There is no such thing as being un-born from either one.

 

[John Zain]

When a person responds to the gospel (to the satisfaction of the Lord), he/she becomes born again, right?
Please note that knowledge of the Holy Spirit is NOT part of the gospel message.

P.S. I believe the born-again experience is not the same as a person having his/her thinking converted to
believing in the gospel, i.e. simply an intellectual conversion as opposed to a genuine heart conversion.

Now, cannot a person become born again without even knowing what happened to him/her?
Answer: Billy Graham didn't know what happened to him for 6 months (ditto myself).
6 months.
.

 

[John Zain]

You can only have 2 births in the Kingdom of God:
One is your physical birth from your mother, we all have that.
There other birth is for only those who have accepted by faith, Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior
and that is your Spiritual Birth through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I also think that our physical birth and spiritual birth have something very important in common:
There is no such thing as being un-born from either one.

None of the 14+ verses concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit talk about any birthing process.
Please study the chart and the verses in Post #3.

P.S. I like your point about the impossibility of being un-born.

 

[RJ]

None of the 14+ verses concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit talk about any birthing process.
Please study the chart and the verses in Post #3.

P.S. I like your point about the impossibility of being un-born.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

"Born Again": Born of your mother, "Born Again" of the Holy Spirit:

Two births one Physical one Spiritual, it is as simple as that!

 

[Brother Mike]

Do we see a difference.

Doe we see a difference between our spirit being born again by the Word, though the work of the Holy Spirit..

And then a separate experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit...?

Was not Jesus born again, being birthed from the Spoken Word?? Then later filled with the Holy Spirit when he operated in Miracles??

Jesus said you will Receive Power on High... Where not those that recieved power on High already saved?

Does God have to be considered Your heavenly Father before you receive the Holy Spirit?? Or is God everyone's Heavenly father despite what other scriptures say??

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


Just asking..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.
"Born Again": Born of your mother, "Born Again" of the Holy Spirit:
Two births one Physical one Spiritual, it is as simple as that!

Life is just as simple as being a senor RJ. Okay, I understand that ... now let's move on to meatier things.

 

[RJ]

Life is just as simple as being a senor RJ. Okay, I understand that ... now let's move on to meatier things.

???? meatier things???

 

[John Zain]

Doe we see a difference between our spirit being born again by the Word, though the work
of the Holy Spirit .. And then a separate experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit...?
If you asked this to the hundreds of millions who have this baptism, the answers would surprise you.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
One difference is that you really cannot have any of the following without it …
1 Corinthians 12:
<SUP>1</SUP> Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant …
<SUP>7</SUP> But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
<SUP>8</SUP> for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,
to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
<SUP>9</SUP> to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
<SUP>10</SUP> to another the working of miracles,
to another prophecy,
to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues,
to another the interpretation of tongues.
<SUP>11</SUP> But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Was not Jesus born again, being birthed from the Spoken Word??
Then later filled with the Holy Spirit when he operated in Miracles??
Jesus was double-baptised by John in the Jordan John 1:32-34, etc.
Jesus asked for miracles, and the Holy Spirit performed them.

Jesus said you will Receive Power on High...
Where not those that recieved power on High already saved?
No, really the power He meant has to do with the 9 spiritual gifts (see verses 8--10 above).

Does God have to be considered Your heavenly Father before you receive the Holy Spirit??
Or is God everyone's Heavenly father despite what other scriptures say??
Yes, one must believe in Father God and be born again to receive this baptism.
Except, one who is born again has “received” the Holy Spirit also.
But, receiving this baptism is a different receiving.
And one difference is that He comes UPON the person, not inside.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
This is a favorite of mine with the Muslims … another verse teaching man has an inherited sin nature.
I ask them, “Why did Jesus choose only evil men to be His disciples?”
I’m not sure if Jesus is referring here to receiving the Spirit at salvation or at this baptism.

Brother Mike,
Yes, not only “Jesus is Lord”, but “Jesus Christ has come in the flesh” 1 John 4:2
P.S. Mohammed did not give the so-called “Gabriel” this test, so he never affirmed the above.
If he had been given the test, he would have failed it … because he was Satan or a demon.

 

[james g]

Baptism In The Holy Spirit - <!-- status icon and date --><!-- status icon and date -->11-25-05, 11:49 PM by Chad Scriptural Bible Answers<!-- / status icon and date -->

 

[Brother Mike]

Holy Spirit!!

John Zain

Yes, one must believe in Father God and be born again to receive this baptism.
Except, one who is born again has “received” the Holy Spirit also.
But, receiving this baptism is a different receiving.
And one difference is that He comes UPON the person, not inside.

Many years of teaching faith.... and teaching on the operation of the Holy Spirit... but never until right now have I thought along these lines...

I always said the Holy Spirit was for flesh... "I can do all things through Christ (Jesus the anointed one and HIS anointing for us)

Where I am Weak, I am strong that the power Christ (The Anointing)....

but never considered the comes upon the person as we see in the OT..

God said he would walk "In us" and his Power "On us".....

Thank you for getting around to my questions John Zain....
I don't think it matters a whole lot as the two experiences are different events, else everyone that did not speak in tongues would be headed to Hell..... That can't be true... I have met some I felt the Anointing on, but never had full teaching and understand about the operation of Tongues...

But this John Zain gives me some different perspective...to consider..

Thank you again.. and be blessed.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[RJ]

John Zain


Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Yes, one must believe in Father God and be born again to receive this baptism.
Except, one who is born again has “received” the Holy Spirit also.
But, receiving this baptism is a different receiving.
And one difference is that He comes UPON the person, not inside.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Many years of teaching faith.... and teaching on the operation of the Holy Spirit... but never until right now have I thought along these lines...

I always said the Holy Spirit was for flesh... "I can do all things through Christ (Jesus the anointed one and HIS anointing for us)

Where I am Weak, I am strong that the power Christ (The Anointing)....

but never considered the comes upon the person as we see in the OT..

God said he would walk "In us" and his Power "On us".....

Thank you for getting around to my questions John Zain....
I don't think it matters a whole lot as the two experiences are different events, else everyone that did not speak in tongues would be headed to Hell..... That can't be true... I have met some I felt the Anointing on, but never had full teaching and understand about the operation of Tongues...

But this John Zain gives me some different perspective...to consider..

Thank you again.. and be blessed.

I will just stick with this:

John 3:
<SUP>5</SUP> Jesus answered, “I assure you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, it’s not possible to enter God’s kingdom. <SUP id=en-CEB-26117 class=versenum>6</SUP> Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. <SUP id=en-CEB-26118 class=versenum>7</SUP>

I believe that means what is on the outside is flesh and what is on the inside is Spirit!

Colossians 1:27


<SUP id=en-NIV-29493 class=versenum>27</SUP> To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

It is still a mystery to some but not to me!

 

[John Zain]

???? meatier things???

1 Corinthians 3:
<SUP>1</SUP> And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-28409 class=versenum>2</SUP> I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;

Hebrews 5:
<SUP>12</SUP> For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God;
and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-30040 class=versenum>13</SUP> For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-30041 class=versenum>14</SUP> But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised
to discern both good and evil.

One thing is certain, RJ, and you can count on it until the day you die ... Jesus Loves You!
.

 

[RJ]

1 Corinthians 3:
<SUP>1</SUP> And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-28409 class=versenum>2</SUP> I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;

Hebrews 5:
<SUP>12</SUP> For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God;
and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-30040 class=versenum>13</SUP> For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
<SUP id=en-NKJV-30041 class=versenum>14</SUP> But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised
to discern both good and evil.

One thing is certain, RJ, and you can count on it until the day you die ... Jesus Loves You!
.

Never thought anything otherwise about my Lord and Savior!

So, what is your point in quoting 1 Corinthians 3 and Hebrews 5.

 

[John Zain]

Never thought anything otherwise about my Lord and Savior!
So, what is your point in quoting 1 Corinthians 3 and Hebrews 5.

You were questioning my comment on moving on to meatier things, i.e. beyond milk.

 

[RJ]

You were questioning my comment on moving on to meatier things, i.e. beyond milk.

Yes, and what beyond Mother's Milk were you going to discuss?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Many claim that 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' is a separate event from receiving the Holy Spirit at conversion.

There are two biblical instances dealing with the Holy Spirit

John 20:22 records the point at which Jesus ministered the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit to the disciples in the upper room the evening of the Ressurection. the EFFECT of that is recorded in LUKE 24:45 when He opened their understanding of the Scriptures - which would be the effect of receiving the Holy Spirit - i.e. the Holy Spirit IN the believer.

The Holy Spirit, of course, has been around since the get-go as Jesus said (John 14:17) " ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 20:22 was when that happened.

But then Jesus said (Luke 24:49) "tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high". HE used the word "Endue" - which is an EXTERNAL CLOTHING.

Consequently, at Acts 2:4, the Apostles/Disciples - WHO ALREADY WERE INFILLED with the Holy Spirit were "Endued with POWER" by the Holy Spirit ON them - as He came ON people in the Old Testament. The Difference was that in the OLD Testament, the Holy Spirit only came on Selected people - like John the Baptist, or Samson, David, Elisha, etc. NONE OF WHOM were indwelled by the Holy Spirit OR "Born Again" (since cleaning from SIN didn't exist - yet.

In the NEW testament, all the Born Again Christians could be "endued with power from on high".