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Bad Assumptions about the Bible

1. When Jesus stopped the adulterer from being stoned was He doing so under the old covenant or a new one?

The old one definitely. According to John 3:3-5 anyway.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Question: The man in 1Cor 5 (being turned over to Satan) after Jesus was resurrected, was he under the old or new?

2. Do you believe any in Abraham's bosom / paradise will be kept out of heaven?

The ones on the Paradise side, no.. the ones on the hades side.. yes.

God will not ever make the mistake of grafting someone with a heart like Judas's into heaven.

and the biggest mistake here, is thinking that giving someone a chance is a mistake.
 
The old one definitely. According to John 3:3-5 anyway.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

How so? If it was the old, the adulterer would be stoned to death.

Lev 20:10 ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife with the wife of his neighbor both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Jesus was bringing the new covenant. All those verses in John you quoted reference a new covenant. Born again = new covenant. You cannot get more 'new covenant' than that ;).

Question: The man in 1Cor 5 (being turned over to Satan) after Jesus was resurrected, was he under the old or new?

New. Nobody continuing in sin unrepentant must think they are Christians 1 Cor 6:9-11 and most certainly not anyone continuing in mortal sin 1 Cor 5:1.

I know your follow up will be, ''see, under the new covenant, this man was a Christian handed over to satan''. But fortunately Paul was clear in 1 Cor 5:11 that a person continuing in mortal sin is a 'brother so called'.

1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister.

The ones on the Paradise side, no.. the ones on the hades side.. yes.

Agreed.

The whole place is called Hades / Sheol though? There is a hellish side and a paradise. Separated by a great barrier.

and the biggest mistake here, is thinking that giving someone a chance is a mistake.

Disagree. The biggest mistake is allowing into heaven someone who is beyond saving. Or placing in hell someone who would truly repent.

That would be like a school principal taking paedophiles out of rehabilitation and appointing them as kindergarten teachers.

All are given a chance. God wills that all be saved (1 Tim 2:4). There is no dispute there. What is being overlooked, is Jeremiah 17:9–11: only God can truly judge the heart and the mind. God is not a human who would ever make the mistake of allowing a person with a heart hardened by a love of sin, into heaven.

----------------------------

It is important to grasp why scripture mentions a hardened heart on numerous occasions. It is God's justification for sending the wicked to an eternal punishment.

The condition of the heart is everything.

Anyone who is willing to lay down their life for you, or even for others, should always be welcome in your home. Christianity is that simple (Matthew 16:24)
 
The thief had the Creator Himself approve of his faith so He can "bypass" baptism.
Baptism is not a hard, mandatory, essential requirement.

The problem here is many do not understand or have the right mindset.
a. They're scared. Following Jesus isn't easy.
b. They didn't truly accept Him. You can tell by their life, actions, and words.

In any group in the Bible where many are baptized, don't think everyone there was changed. Many were. Many were not.
 
The Problem with the Thief on the Cross

Few figures in Scripture get used more often to justify doctrine than the thief on the cross. And few figures are more misunderstood.

You've heard the arguments. The thief wasn't baptized - so baptism isn't necessary. The thief didn't do any good works - so works don't matter. The thief just believed - so belief is all you need.

But there's a problem with building doctrine on the thief. A big one.

What if the thief wasn't the first example of New Covenant salvation - but the last example of Old Covenant salvation?

Paradise, Not Heaven

Let's start with what Jesus actually said.

"Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

Paradise. Not Heaven. That distinction matters.

In Luke 16, Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man. When Lazarus died, he went to Abraham's Bosom - a place of comfort, separated by a great gulf from Hades where the rich man suffered. This was Paradise. The holding place for the righteous dead under the Old Covenant.

Abraham was there. Lazarus was there. All the Old Testament saints were there. Waiting.

Waiting for what?

Waiting for Jesus to finish His work.

The Covenant Wasn't in Force Yet

Here's a legal reality most people overlook.

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives" (Hebrews 9:16-17).

A will doesn't take effect until the person who wrote it dies.

When Jesus made His promise to the thief, Jesus was still alive. The New Covenant - the new testament in His blood - wasn't in force yet. It couldn't be. The testator hadn't died.

The thief died under the same covenant that covered Abraham, Moses, and David. Faith looking forward to the promise. Old Covenant terms.

He wasn't the first convert of the New Covenant. He was the last convert of the Old.

Jesus Hadn't Ascended Yet

After the resurrection, Mary Magdalene found Jesus at the tomb. She reached out to Him, and He said something strange.

"Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father" (John 20:17).

Jesus had work to do. He hadn't gone to the Father yet.

The book of Hebrews tells us that the earthly tabernacle was "a copy and shadow of the heavenly things" (Hebrews 8:5). There is a tabernacle in Heaven. A real one. Complete with the ark of the covenant and a mercy seat.

On the Day of Atonement, the high priest would take the blood of the sacrifice and sprinkle it on the mercy seat. That blood covered the sins of the people for another year.

Jesus, our High Priest, had to do the same thing - but once for all. He had to take His own blood into the heavenly tabernacle and sprinkle it on the heavenly mercy seat.

"Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption" (Hebrews 9:12).

When the thief died, Jesus hadn't done that yet. The blood hadn't been applied. The atonement wasn't complete.

The Spirit Wasn't Given Yet

Under the Old Covenant, the Holy Spirit worked differently than He does now.

The Spirit came upon people - temporarily, for specific tasks. He came upon Samson to give him strength. He came upon Saul to prophesy. He came upon David to reign. But He also left. Saul lost the Spirit. David, after his sin with Bathsheba, prayed "Do not take Your Holy Spirit from me" (Psalm 51:11). He knew the Spirit could depart.

The New Covenant promised something different. An indwelling Spirit. A permanent presence.

But that hadn't happened yet.

"But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified" (John 7:39).

Not yet given. Jesus wasn't glorified yet.

Jesus told His disciples, "It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you" (John 16:7).

The Spirit couldn't come in the New Covenant way until Jesus left. That happened at Pentecost - Acts 2. Peter preached, and three thousand were baptized, and they received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The thief died before any of this. Before the resurrection. Before the ascension. Before the Spirit was poured out. Before Acts 2. Before "repent and be baptized." He couldn't have received the indwelling Spirit even if he wanted to. It wasn't available yet.

Leading Captives Free

So what happened to all those Old Testament saints waiting in Paradise?

"When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Now this, 'He ascended' - what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?" (Ephesians 4:8-9).

Jesus descended. To the lower parts. To Paradise. And He led the captives free.

Abraham, Moses, David, Lazarus, and yes - the thief on the cross. All of them waiting. All of them transferred when the work was complete.

The thief went to Paradise that day, just as Jesus promised. But Paradise wasn't the final destination. It was the waiting room. And when Jesus finished His work, He came back for them.

The Evidence Stacked Up

Let's count the reasons the thief was under the Old Covenant:

One - Jesus said Paradise, not Heaven. The Old Testament saints' waiting place.

Two - Jesus hadn't died yet. The New Covenant wasn't in force.

Three - Jesus hadn't ascended yet. The blood hadn't been applied to the heavenly mercy seat.

Four - The Spirit hadn't been given yet. The New Covenant indwelling wasn't available.

Five - Acts 2 hadn't happened yet. "Repent and be baptized" hadn't been preached.

Six - Jesus led the captives free after His work was done. The thief was among them.

How many reasons do we need? The thief was Old Covenant by every measure.

Selective Proof-Texting

Here's something interesting. People love to use the thief to dismiss New Covenant commands.

The thief wasn't baptized - so I don't need to be baptized.

The thief didn't do good works - so I don't need to do good works.

The thief just believed - so belief is all I need.

But you know what else the thief wasn't?

Circumcised.

Funny how that never comes up. Under the Old Covenant, circumcision was required. But nobody says, "The thief wasn't circumcised, so circumcision must not matter."

Why not? Because we know circumcision was an Old Covenant requirement that doesn't apply to us.

Exactly. So why are we using an Old Covenant convert to dismiss New Covenant requirements?

Even If You Disagree

But let's say you're not convinced. Let's say you still think the thief was saved under New Covenant terms.

Fine. Let's grant everything you want to claim.

The thief confessed with his mouth. He believed in his heart. He recognized his sin and accepted his punishment. He probably didn't commit any more sins in the few hours he had left. And he couldn't get baptized - he was nailed to a cross with Roman soldiers guarding him.

Maybe grace covered what he couldn't do. Jesus knows hearts. The thief gets a pass on the things that were physically impossible for him.

I'll give you that.

Now answer me this: What's your excuse?

You've been saved for ten, twenty, thirty years. You're not nailed to a cross. You're not dying in the next few hours. You have legs that work. There's a baptistry at your church. There's water in the river.

The thief couldn't. You can.

The thief had hours. You've had decades.

The thief had no opportunity. You've had hundreds.

And if you're wheelchair-bound? I've seen people in wheelchairs get baptized. I've seen elderly people lowered into the water. I've seen baptisms in bathtubs, horse troughs, swimming pools, lakes, rivers, oceans. I've seen people baptized in hospitals.

If you want to obey, you find a way.

The thief had zero options. Zero.

You have options. You just don't like them.

Grace covers "can't." It doesn't cover "won't."

The Real Question

So here's the real question.

Why are we building doctrine on the one dying man who couldn't do anything - instead of the dozens of examples in Acts where people could do something and did?

Pentecost - three thousand repented and were baptized.

The Ethiopian eunuch - "Here is water, what hinders me?" He was baptized immediately.

Paul - "Arise and be baptized, washing away your sins."

Cornelius - baptized immediately after receiving the Spirit.

The Philippian jailer - baptized the same hour of the night.

Lydia - baptized with her household.

Person after person after person. The pattern is clear. Believe and be baptized. Immediately. Without delay.

But we ignore all of that and cling to the one guy who couldn't do it.

Why?

Because the exception lets us off the hook. The exception doesn't require anything of us. The exception lets us say "it's not really necessary."

We go with the one example instead of the dozens.

Bad foundation.

Conclusion

The thief on the cross is a beautiful picture of grace. A man at the end of his rope, with nothing to offer, placing his faith in Jesus and receiving the promise of Paradise.

But he's not your model.

He was the last Old Covenant convert, saved the same way Abraham was saved - by faith looking forward to the promise. He went where the Old Testament saints went. He was led captive when Jesus finished His work.

You live after Acts 2. You live after "repent and be baptized." You live after the Spirit was poured out. You have opportunities the thief never had.

Stop hiding behind a dying man's inability to justify your unwillingness.

Be a Berean. Look at all the evidence. Follow the pattern of Acts, not the exception on the cross.

And if you can obey - then obey.
the examples cited to us in the NT were always for believers water Baptism
 
The thief had the Creator Himself approve of his faith so He can "bypass" baptism.
Baptism is not a hard, mandatory, essential requirement.

The problem here is many do not understand or have the right mindset.
a. They're scared. Following Jesus isn't easy.
b. They didn't truly accept Him. You can tell by their life, actions, and words.

In any group in the Bible where many are baptized, don't think everyone there was changed. Many were. Many were not.
The ONLY baptism that counts is spiritual Baptism when the holy Spirit Himself places us in Christ and the Body of Christ when we first believed
 
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