Arguments for OSAS

[Butch5]

Scripture says God is impartial Acts 10:34, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

As such God will not in any way shape or form be guilty of one iota of partiality.

Dealt with this in post # 31.



Love the example.

However, Scripture says Christians are on earth to serve God, be His ambassadors 2 Cor 5:20. Christianity 101 is to lay our lives down for God Matt 16:24. As quoted above the steps of the righteous are lead by God Psalm 37:23.

As such, your example needs to be edited to read:

Man A hears this and believes as a young man. Man B hears this and believes this as a young man.

God uses Man A to witness to those who skydive. Man B becomes a professor and is used by God to witness to students. A few years after, Man A jumps from a plane and his parachute doesn't open. God could send angels to catch him, but does not. Man B lives to be 85 years old.

If OSAS were not true, there is absolutely partiality on God's part. Man A was taken earlier. Man B, as he lived for longer would encounter more temptations and opportunities to lose his salvation. Despite the fact that he served God ten times more....

You're going right back to that same assumption, that God ordains one life.

 

[Butch5]

Butch,

As a born again believer saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus, you are in the sheep-fold. Is your free-will to reject God's gift of eternal life stronger than God's sovereign-will to keep you in the sheep-fold?

What would cause it isn't the question. The question is can it happen?

 

[Reba1]

IE, if our ''best action'' is not good enough for God, how is it that ''one'' action from Jesus is sufficient for God.

WOW How can a Christian even ask such a question . We are human He is God ..

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The problem is that many do not understand scripture. Cherry picked and parroted scripture, does not always equal truth. A Christian has been given common sense and a working brain. God forbid we not use it.

It matters not that scripture is not understood, but that we see what God has to say about it. Those who do not understand the verses do have the option to take it to the Holy Spirit for explanation...Its not up to us to decide who hears what. Its up to us to share the Word.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

There is only one possible scripture that one could use to prove OSAS but this scripture leaves one thing out, that could take you out of Gods hand, but still would not stop God from loving them.


Romans 8:38-39
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers, neither what exists nor what is coming, 39 neither powers above nor powers below, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God which comes to us through the Messiah Yeshua, our Lord.

 

[Waggles]

The problem is that many do not understand scripture. Cherry picked and parroted scripture, does not always equal truth.

Well ain't that the kettle calling the pot sooty.
People who live in glass houses ought not to throw stones.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Well ain't that the kettle calling the pot sooty.
People who live in glass houses ought not to throw stones.

Hmmm A slap alongside the haircut, as the Newfoundlanders would say....and not necessary.

 

[JerryfromMass]

What would cause it isn't the question. The question is can it happen?

Okay. Can it happen to you, Butch? And, what would it take for it to happen to you?

 

[KingJ]

You're going right back to that same assumption, that God ordains one life.

I like how you EVADE the entire post with this accusatory line. Insanity Butch!! Utter waste of time discussing with you.

I have given you scriptures and explained it is not an assumption.

I feel you have a terribly warped idea of what Christianity is if you do not believe we are here to ''serve'' God.

Enjoy your day at the park, whilst actual Christians are witnessing to God in areas where the devil is attacking them with all his strength. Trying DAILY to stumble them.

At least in the park, you are in a safe zone where your '''salvation''' / ''''faith''''' is secure right.

If you say ''oh man, me being in the park is an assumption''...is it? If you believe you can lose your salvation and be burnt alive / annihilated, you would be the definition of mad if you did not stay in a permanent safe zone.

 

[KingJ]

WOW How can a Christian even ask such a question . We are human He is God ..

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Haha Reba 1.

You are correct, how dare we ask that of God. He is God, He can do whatever He wants. As you clearly pointed out Rom 9 says so with utter clarity.

Fortunately for us though, there are more chapters in the bible then only Rom 9. There are prophets that knew God better then most. These prophets consistently penned that God was good Psalm 136:1, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

So whilst God does have the ability to do whatever He wants, what is crystal clear from the ''''rest'''' of scripture is the fact that He desires / wills to do '''what is good and righteous''.

As such, we see examples like Abraham ''being able to'' question God on the destruction of Sodom Gen 18. Moses able to do so on the annihilation of Hebrews worshiping the golden calf.

God does what pleases Him and what pleases Him is to work with us on our level (Jesus) and for us to ''grasp'' that He is good John 3:16, John 3:19, Eph 3:18.

As such for a Christian to not properly represent God is a terrible fail of our ''one'' job 2 Cor 5:20.

There is nothing wrong with interrogating God's commitment to us. If God was wicked, I would not serve Him. If God did not love me, I would not be devoted to Him.

The good news is that God is not wicked and God is not unloving. The greatest act of love He gave us John 3:19, John 3:16. My OP is making the point that us replicating a depth of desire in one action and then born again / grafted into the vine can likewise be an acceptable offering to God.

 

[KingJ]

It matters not that scripture is not understood, but that we see what God has to say about it. Those who do not understand the verses do have the option to take it to the Holy Spirit for explanation...Its not up to us to decide who hears what. Its up to us to share the Word.

Understanding God, from scripture is the starting point.

If we look at the temptations of Jesus in Matt 4, we see that the devil knew scripture. Jesus knew God and from the knowledge of God, knew the scripture to quote to correct the ''cherry'' picked scripture by the devil.

A Christian can and must know God. The prophets did! Think about that. When David said ''Give thanks because God is good'' Psalm 136:1, he was not quoting scripture. When Paul preached the NT, he knew God and had a hard time explaining context and scripture to Jews.

A Christian ''should'' grasp God as the prophets did.

Fortunately for us, we have scripture from prophets and Christians already penned. So. today we can compare a Christian's knowledge of God against scripture.

Now a Christian should be able to state with certainty that a God who judges one's heart Jer 17:9-11 as being sincere, be able to marry them and ''stick'' to the arrangement.

If we truly believe in anti-OSAS it casts doubt on God's commitment to us. Not just now but surely for all eternity. Only God is good Mark 10:18. We judge angels in heaven 1 Cor 6:3 because they sin. There is still sin in heaven. We are only '''justified'' / ''righteous''' because we have been washed by the blood of Jesus. If we can be ''un-washed'', we need to to be nervous of our ''salvation'' for all eternity. Imagine that.

As such an anti-OSAS belief is a work of the devil to attack the very core of a Christian's belief and hope.

 

[KingJ]

Well ain't that the kettle calling the pot sooty.
People who live in glass houses ought not to throw stones.

Can you prove your accusation? Quote something I have said and provide a rebuttal.

A line like this is trolling.

 

[Waggles]

A line like this is trolling

NO a line like that is repartee against your quick call to attack and accuse others on this thread.
The rudeness and condemnation comes from thou. Look at what I quoted of yours in my previous reply.
Oh and do not think that we have not noticed the constant referrals to those who do not support OSAS are putting forward demonic and satanic doctrines.
Like I wrote people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

As such an anti-OSAS belief is a work of the devil to attack the very core of a Christian's belief and hope.

 

[KingJ]

What is clear to me after 2- 3 pages of discussion is the fact that anti-OSAS propagators do not properly understand what a Christians purpose on earth is and the fact that the devil is permanently attacking them.

A Christian is not earth to smell flowers and take walks on the beach.

After Paul's conversion, he became public enemy number 1. The devil tried daily to destroy him. The unsaved tried to silence him. Surely also to stumble him. To miss-represent him. To cause Christians to turn on him.

We must not be oblivious of this war we are in when we make a stand for Jesus and decide to serve Him.

As such, if anti-OSAS were true, God is terribly terribly terribly un-just in that he 1. places some in a warzone where they can get shot for longer periods then others and 2. then send to ''eternal hell'' these soldiers that did more then others.....

Anti-OSAS believers have a LOT of explaining to do. A lot!!!!! I am still waiting.......

 

[Waggles]

If we truly believe in anti-OSAS it casts doubt on God's commitment to us. Not just now but surely for all eternity.

Simply put this is untrue.
It is believers that suffer doubt and waver in their commitment to God and the gospel. And the scriptures clearly warn of this multiple times.

 

[Waggles]

Anti-OSAS believers have a LOT of explaining to do. A lot!!!!! I am still waiting.......

Really - you cannot even explain OSAS with any credibility.

 

[KingJ]

NO a line like that is repartee against your quick call to attack and accuse others on this thread.
The rudeness and condemnation comes from thou. Look at what I quoted of yours in my previous reply.
Oh and do not think that we have not noticed the constant referrals to those who do not support OSAS are putting forward demonic and satanic doctrines.
Like I wrote people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

If you say someone is living in a glass house you have to prove it.

Posts like yours are the reason I have lost patience. I gave an OP and asked for a rebuttal. Yet I receive troll like posts like yours and butch's.

 

[KingJ]

Really - you cannot even explain OSAS with any credibility.

Quote me Waggles and provide your rebuttal. Or make your argument for anti-OSAS so that I can interrogate it.

I don't need to ''keep face'' by evading the topic, trolling and sounding like I am taking the ''high'' road.

 

[KingJ]

Oh and do not think that we have not noticed the constant referrals to those who do not support OSAS are putting forward demonic and satanic doctrines.

I have explained why I say it is satanic. I am still waiting for someone to convince me otherwise.

 

[KingJ]

Really - you cannot even explain OSAS with any credibility.

Still waiting for your reply to the post you quoted. It should surely be easy for you to interrogate it if is not ''credible''.

If you do not take a stab at a reply, your post is a classic example of trolling. Now this is fine if we were on an atheist or secular site, but on a Christian site, understand that you are ''trolling'' a brother in Christ.