Are You Saved By Grace or Faith Alone

[RJ]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" Ephesians 2:8-10
" For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you." Romans 12 :3

It is pretty simple, but many just can't see it for some reason!

• Grace is Gods' gift.
• Faith is another gift from God.
• Faith is by God's Grace alone.
• God's Grace existed before we did or our Faith.
• We are saved by Gods' Grace Alone.

 

[Dovegiven]

Romans 4:16 (KJV)
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

True, there is no salvation but by grace of Father God. There is nothing anyone can do to find a way around that gift of God. Unfortunately it appears most of the world refuses to accept that gift since the only way the gift can pass from God to anyone unto their salvation is through faith.
John 14:6 (KJV) 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the only way to God, the Door of salvation, the Way of righteousness, the administrator of grace from the Father, with the Holy Spirit (not by might or power) the deliverer of faith to believe on Jesus for salvation.
John 6:44-47 (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

By all means preach the gospel every opportunity.

 

[Spockrates]

Hi, RJ.

It seems to me the grammar Paul uses in the passage is ambiguous. It might mean this:

For by grace...and this is not of yourselves... .

Or it might mean this:

...you have been saved...and this is not of yourselves... .

Or it might mean this:

...through faith...and this is not of yourselves... .

So the word this might refer to grace, or being saved, or faith. The grammar alone is not suuficient to discern Paul's meaning. How then does one know with any certainty what Paul meant to convey?

 

[RJ]

So the word this might refer to grace, or being saved, or faith. The grammar alone is not suuficient to discern Paul's meaning. How then does one know with any certainty what Paul meant to convey?

• First of all, no matter which way you look at it, you hit the nail on the head!....none of it is by works!
• Other than that, I think you know with any certainty just by the knowledge from the faith that God gives you!

 

[Spockrates]

• First of all, no matter which way you look at it, you hit the nail on the head!....none of it is by works!
• Other than that, I think you know with any certainty just by the knowledge from the faith that God gives you!

RJ:

Thanks for the reply. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your first statement seems illogical. For if only grace is the gift, then the logical inference is that only grace is not by works. If only being saved is the gift, then the logical inference is that only being saved is not by works. If only faith is the gift, then the inference is that only faith is not by works.

So for example, if Paul meant that only faith is the gift that is not by works, then this does not rule out the premise that being saved is by works.

Regarding certainty, I think you are of the opinion that grace, being saved and faith are all gifts. Please tell me why you are certain faith is one of the gifts of which Paul wrote. I'm intrigued, for I've spoken to sincere, bornagain Christians who believe grace is the gift, but faith is not.

 

[RJ]

Regarding certainty, please tell me why you are certain faith is the gift of which Paul wrote. I'm intrigued, for I've spoken to sincere, bornagain Christians who believe grace is the gift, but faith is not.

• For by grace through faith is the gift.
• I don't see how you separate the two?
• Elsewhere in scripture, God tells us that faith is also a gift of God!..example: Hebrews 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith". And Romans 12:3 says " ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” These two verses clearly tell us that faith is not something that we do or a presence of mind that we develop, but that faith is a gift from God.

 

[Spockrates]

RJ:

Thanks. I'm asking because I find the passage of scripture an important one for forming a concept of salvation. I've discovered that since sincere Christians interpret it it different ways, it lends itself to different interpretations of how grace and faith relate to salvation--to different ideas of how one is saved.

Regarding your first two bullet points, perhaps you will see after you answer this question:

Would you say that as a car through gasoline enables one to drive, so too grace through faith enables one to be saved?

 

[RJ]

Would you say that as gasoline through a car enables one to drive, so to grace through faith enables one to be saved?

• That is a fair analogy. With God, it is hard for us mere humans to say for sure, in the spirit world, what came first the "chicken or the egg"? In this case, it seems logical that grace comes first but , again, I am a mere mortal. I am convinced of this though, when God took us from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, it is all about him and none of us!
  
• Some are just driven by the need "To Do Something", works prior to salvation. I am thankful that God has instilled in me that ALL the honor and glory goes to him!

 

[Spockrates]

RJ:

Yes, I think it is fair, too. Though I was not thinking in terms of what came first. I was wondering what is free. Please bear with me.

Let's say I win a raffle and the free prize is a new car. I'm pleased, because I have no car and no job, and this might be what I need to become employed. But when I'm given the keys, get in the car and try to start it, it won't run.

"The car doesn't work!" I say to the one who gave it to me.

"Oh, it works just fine," he replies. "You won a car, not a free tank of gasoline! You have to pay for that."

So do you see, now? If I say, "A car through gasoline enables one to drive," and I know one is a gift, it does not mean the other is a gift. I might very well need to work to earn the other. That absolutely free car won't get me anywhere if I never work to earn the gasoline to fill its tank!

This is why I wonder when Paul writes, "For it is by grace through faith you are saved." For if the grace is free, that does not mean the faith must also be free. Indeed, if it is not, the grace will never drive me to an eternal destination if I refuse to work to obtain the faith to fill its tank!

 

[Spockrates]

• Elsewhere in scripture, God tells us that faith is also a gift of God!..example: Hebrews 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith". And Romans 12:3 says " ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” These two verses clearly tell us that faith is not something that we do or a presence of mind that we develop, but that faith is a gift from God.

RJ:

But I'm not saying it is certain faith is not a gift. I'm just wondering if such is a possibility. I think your idea of comparing scriptures is a good way to test the theory. Let's consider the two passages you mentioned:

Hebrews 2. I understand Jesus is the author and perfect or of our faith, but I'm not sure this supports the premise that faith is a free gift. Please let me explain and tell me if you agree: When my son graduates from high school, he plans to attend Perdue University to study computer programming. Now one might say the professors who educate him are the authors and perfectors of his education. But this in no way means his education will be free!

Romans 12. I agree God has alotted to each person a measure of faith. But each week my employer allots to me a measure of pay. Such pay is not a free gift, but something I have worked to earn.

So if faith is a free gift, then we will need some other passage of scripture to prove it out. Don't you agree?

 

[RJ]

RJ:

Yes, I think it is fair, too. Though I was not thinking in terms of what came first. I was wondering what is free. Please bear with me.

Let's say I win a raffle and the free prize is a new car. I'm pleased, because I have no car and no job, and this might be what I need to become employed. But when I'm given the keys, get in the car and try to start it, it won't run.

"The car doesn't work!" I say to the one who gave it to me.

"Oh, it works just fine," he replies. "You won a car, not a free tank of gasoline! You have to pay for that."

So do you see, now? If I say, "A car through gasoline enables one to drive," and I know one is a gift, it does not mean the other is a gift. I might very well need to work to earn the other. That absolutely free car won't get me anywhere if I never work to earn the gasoline to fill its tank!

This is why I wonder when Paul writes, "For it is by grace through faith you are saved." For if the grace is free, that does not mean the faith must also be free. Indeed, if it is not, the grace will never drive me to an eternal destination if I refuse to work to obtain the faith to fill its tank!

I showed you verses that say God gives us the faith, and if he gives it , it is another of his gifts!

 

[RJ]

Romans 12. I agree God has alotted to each person a measure of faith. But each week my employer allots to me a measure of pay. Such pay is not a free gift, but something I have worked to earn.

That is precisely it!! Faith is by God's grace, another gift and not pay...you do nothing but take the gift off the table. Then, it is what you do with your faith! You grow it by hearing and listening to the word, or reading the word! Once saved, then your faith is what justifies you.....Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law

 

[Spockrates]

I showed you verses that say God gives us the faith, and if he gives it , it is another of his gifts!

My apologies for being clear as mud in my previous posts. I will endeavor to be more cogent and concise. If my employer gives me a paycheck, is the paycheck he gives me a gift?

 

[RJ]

My apologies for being clear as mud in my previous posts. I will endeavor to be more cogent and concise. If my employer gives me a paycheck, is the paycheck he gives me a gift?

NO! That is money for services rendered or works performed. Grace and faith are a free gift from God. I am not getting your point?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,
I am saved by grace and it is only because of His Shed Blood

Bless you ....><>

*please all read this from Revelation 5;

1And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much,

because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me,
Weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld,
and, lo,
in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders,

stood a Lamb as it had been slain,

having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when He had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld,
and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders:
and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

12 Saying with a loud voice,
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that liveth for ever and ever.

 

[Spockrates]

NO! That is money for services rendered or works performed. Grace and faith are a free gift from God. I am not getting your point?

Yes, and my point is this: You and I agree that not everything given is a gift.

So if I say, "My employer gave me a check," you would not know from that statement if it was a gift or a reward. You would have to ask, "Was it a paycheck or a bonus check?" If I said, "It was a bonus check that I get on my birthday every year," then you would know it was a gift. But if you never asked, you would not have enough information to know for certain whether it was a gift or a reward.

Do you understand my point, or should I give further explanation?

 

[RJ]

Do you understand my point, or should I give further explanation?

No offense Spock, but No and no!

 

[Dovegiven]

Yes, and my point is this: You and I agree that not everything given is a gift.

So if I say, "My employer gave me a check," you would not know from that statement if it was a gift or a reward. You would have to ask, "Was it a paycheck or a bonus check?" If I said, "It was a bonus check that I get on my birthday every year," then you would know it was a gift. But if you never asked, you would not have enough information to know for certain whether it was a gift or a reward.

Do you understand my point, or should I give further explanation?

All through the Bible "grace" has meant in Hebrew and Greek alike "favor". We use "grace" to explain how your life insurance plan can't be cancelled if you are late on a payment, that there is provision (grace period) for a time to catch up, staying in favor of the insurer.
The grace of God is an attitude of his that's similar to his mercy, except that grace lets God keep value in a person on the basis of loving the person rather than on the basis of pity and forgiveness for every shortcoming. By his grace he determined before man was made that there would be a plan to recover his value of man who would be swallowed in sin.

I have a grace plan for my household of females who tend to drop earrings and other things precious to them in sinks. The hard side of me would be to say "Sorry", not wanting take the plumbing apart. But because I love my wife and daughters and grand daughters, I keep a 36" mechanics retriever tool handy that can snake down to grab whatever is lost without taking the plumbing apart. It brings up lots of hair, too :thumbsup:

God's grace plan for us always has been infinitely better than that. He introduced it to Adam and Eve, previewed it in the Torah, affirmed it through the prophets and psalmists, and manifested it in fully glory in Christ Jesus. Grace is always conditional, while mercy is one-sided, an act without condition, but only limited to specific situations, like a certain financial debt to be forgiven. Grace is far better, the conditions easy to meet, and is continuous for the obedient child of God. He makes us an offer we cannot resist in a right mind. He will even right a mind long enough to comprehend his offer when he calls a person to answer the Father..

The only way to access it is through faith in the words of God to assure our eternal life. That isn't a work, for as already said God gives us the faith that we might believe his word. James added that if we have received God's grace plan through faith to believe it, then evidence of works or righteousness will attend that faith, follow it, prove our faith is really from God and not along the lines of having faith in a sturdy looking chair to sit in it with all our weight. God's faith doesn't rely upon what we see and have reasonable flesh knowledge concerning something tangible. Once we believe without seeing, then the substance of our faith begins to manifest into what can be seen, held, heard, etc. But if the seeing, holding, hearing is demanded before acting upon the free gift of faith, then it is not a matter of faith, but more of a relationship like customer to a car sales agent.

 

[Dovegiven]

Yes, and my point is this: You and I agree that not everything given is a gift.

So if I say, "My employer gave me a check," you would not know from that statement if it was a gift or a reward. You would have to ask, "Was it a paycheck or a bonus check?" If I said, "It was a bonus check that I get on my birthday every year," then you would know it was a gift. But if you never asked, you would not have enough information to know for certain whether it was a gift or a reward.

Do you understand my point, or should I give further explanation?

Paychecks are never gifts. They yield to the employee what they earned, that being their property. No worker is "rewarded" though payroll, who leases himself out in exchange for some wealth.

 

[Spockrates]

No offense Spock, but No and no!

I'm sorry for not confusing you. Maybe this will help: If I said, "RJ, Dovegiven just gave me $100.00!" would you say the money I got from Dovegiven was a gift or a payment?