Are you really saved?

[gdemoss]

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Of course we are not to sin but, it is obvious to Jesus that he understands that we are not capable of not sining. Not that we want to sin but, we are not perfect like he is and we are not capable of no sin.

Jesus acknowledges this to us by saying: " And if any man sin"!
Then he follows up by saying that the Holy Spirit speaks on our behalf when we do mess up.

RJ, it is quite interesting to see the way you think about scripture. By this verse you stated that it is obvious that Jesus understands we are not capable of not sinning.

First of all the quoted verse above is from the KJV and I love the KJV but they didn't always bring out the fullness of the text in their interpretations. Youngs literal translation captures the use of the subjunctives which are necessary if we are going to understand that the 'if' used here is a third class condition in Greek that denotes a hypothetical situation and not something absolutely certain.

My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one,

These are not absolutes either way. So to say Jesus understands that we are not capable of not sinning based upon this verse would be in error. If Jesus were trying to acknowledge our inablility to stay free from sin he could have very well said "So when you sin" but he did not.

 

[RJ]

RJ, it is quite interesting to see the way you think about scripture. By this verse you stated that it is obvious that Jesus understands we are not capable of not sinning.

First of all the quoted verse above is from the KJV and I love the KJV but they didn't always bring out the fullness of the text in their interpretations. Youngs literal translation captures the use of the subjunctives which are necessary if we are going to understand that the 'if' used here is a third class condition in Greek that denotes a hypothetical situation and not something absolutely certain.

My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one,

These are not absolutes either way. So to say Jesus understands that we are not capable of not sinning based upon this verse would be in error. If Jesus were trying to acknowledge our inablility to stay free from sin he could have very well said "So when you sin" but he did not.

The point is: He didn't say "So when you sin" but, " if anyone may sin", so what is your point? Nothing really changes!

Thanks for the Greek liguistics lesson anyway.

So in my verse and in your verse, he uses the word may. So..., the point is, I believe, in the event that a Christian sins...he has still taken care of that for us!

But really, what difference does it make if it is translated as "when" or "may". So why would he use a hypothetical? After all he didn't say that we would definetly not sin. Also, my dear learned friend, why does he mention the advocate? What is the need of an advocate if you do not sin?

But the bottom line is: surely, you believe that none of us is with out sin?

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[gdemoss]

The point is: He didn't say "So when you sin" but, " if anyone may sin", so what is your point? Nothing really changes!

One means you will definitely do it 'when' the other means it is possible but not necessarily the case 'if'. I see a big difference.

Thanks for the Greek liguistics lesson anyway.

RJ, I don't know you yet. I need you to help me understand if your being genuine or sarcastic. Written words show no inflection.

So in my verse and in your verse, he uses the word may. So..., the point is, I believe, in the event that a Christian sins...he has still taken care of that for us!

You and I are almost on the same page here. We both agree that Christ paid for the sin of the whole world and not just Christians and this would include all sin that has not even happened yet. We both agree that only those who believe in him will receive the atonement and the imputed righteousness. But I think we may have differing beliefs about willful sin verses unintentional or ignorant sin. I believe that the verse in question applies to those who fall into or are ignorantly involved in sin. A homosexual who comes to Christ and repents then diligently follows for a number of years but in the end goes back to his homosexual lifestyle is not covered under this verse. Of course some will try to argue and say that he was never saved in the first place but even then they are agreeing that he wasn't covered.

But really, what difference does it make if it is translated as "when" or "may". So why would he use a hypothetical? After all he didn't say that we would definetly not sin. Also, my dear learned friend, why does he mention the advocate? What is the need of an advocate if you do not sin?

He would use a hypothetical to show that it isn't an absolute but only a possibility. This verse does not give any indication that one would never sin. Just as it doesn't give the sense that you absolutely will. By this verse we can merely say that it is definitely possible that you might sin. IF you do THEN you will need an advocate, the Lord Jesus Christ.

But the bottom line is: surely, you believe that none of us is with out sin?

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

I was born with sin dwelling in me. I chose to allow that sin to manifest itself in the world. Sin became my master. After hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and believing that he is the Son of the living God, sins hold upon me was broken. I received the Holy Spirit and now partake in the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. I still have the ability to sin. It is possible that I can fall into sin. It is not a definite that I will sin.


Can we live our lives apart from sin? With God all things are possible. If you believe that you will have problems sinning the rest of your life, you are right as you will follow your faith.

Have a good night

Gary

 

[ozell]

I posted all of my requirements from you above.

your requirements?

this is the problem your requirements

are you the creator or the created?

here is a verse the Lord left for those who think like you do


Isaiah 55:7-9

<SUP id=en-KJV-18748 class=versenum>7</SUP>Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
<SUP id=en-KJV-18749 class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum>8</SUP>For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. <SUP id=en-KJV-18750 class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum>9</SUP>For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Rockerduck]

Christians aren't sinless, they just sin less. Repent from every sin you come to realize in your life.

 

[ozell]

Christians aren't sinless, they just sin less. Repent from every sin you come to realize in your life.

amen

it seems to me that people who think that sin was nailed to the cross only pray for material things

what do they pray for anyway if they don't pray for repentance?

 

[Rockerduck]

The Holy Spirit every once in awhile makes me realize that doing something is a sin that I didn't "consciously" do , even tho' I know it is, somehow my flesh hides it. I repent immediately and start working to remove it. Yes, alot of things are material things people want. You have to ask "is it a want or a need", then pray for the need.

 

[ozell]

The Holy Spirit every once in awhile makes me realize that doing something is a sin that I didn't "consciously" do , even tho' I know it is, somehow my flesh hides it. I repent immediately and start working to remove it. Yes, alot of things are material things people want. You have to ask "is it a want or a need", then pray for the need.

praise Jesus

 

[howard]

Matthew 19:24-26



<SUP id=en-KJV-23787 class=versenum>24</SUP>And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
<SUP id=en-KJV-23788 class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum>25</SUP>When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

<SUP id=en-KJV-23789 class=versenum>26</SUP>But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[howard]

Matthew 19
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP>27</SUP>Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


<SUP id=en-KJV-23791 class=versenum>28</SUP>And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
<SUP id=en-KJV-23792 class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum>29</SUP>And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. <SUP id=en-KJV-23793 class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum>30</SUP>But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

[dagelos]

If you feel that you are saved, I'm sure that you know the few verses that seem to imply this.

Such as (l Corinthians 1:18) "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God and

(2 Corinthians 2:15) "For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them that are saved, and in them that perish."

both of these scriptures are true, but when, how, and what will be saved?

Saved from what?

Why do Christians talk about Salvation,getting Saved,been saved,need to be saved etc etc

But do not expound on what they are ''saved'' from or need to be saved from?

If Christians know what they are ''saved'' from or need to be ''saved'' from,then why don't they answer as to what it is?

''If you feel that you are saved'' - You said..

But you did not say,from what or why...

 

[David777]

Hello dagelos.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be
saved from wrath through Him.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism,
he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe
the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[faithfulservant]

Saved from what?

Why do Christians talk about Salvation,getting Saved,been saved,need to be saved etc etc

But do not expound on what they are ''saved'' from or need to be saved from?

If Christians know what they are ''saved'' from or need to be ''saved'' from,then why don't they answer as to what it is?

''If you feel that you are saved'' - You said..

But you did not say,from what or why...

From that wrath that comes upon every person who rejects the sacrifice that Jesus made upon the cross. These people have chosen to justify themselves before God, but they fail to realize they cannot justify themselves before a holy God. This is why God came down, in flesh, to do what no man could do: Walk without sin and thereby become a worthy sacrifice to atone for the sins of the whole world. If they chose to accept this sacrifice.

Yourself, for instance, I bet you feel you're a fine person and that if there is a God, and there most certainly is, that He would think you're a fine example of a person. But this delusion is based upon your standard, not God's standard (which is the ten commandments).

By God's standard, you have fallen short and you owe a debt for your sin. Do you want to be accountable for that debt, or are you willing to consider accepting Jesus as your propitiation for your sins? This is what getting "saved" is all about.

 

[howard]

Saved from what?

Why do Christians talk about Salvation,getting Saved,been saved,need to be saved etc etc

But do not expound on what they are ''saved'' from or need to be saved from?

If Christians know what they are ''saved'' from or need to be ''saved'' from,then why don't they answer as to what it is?

''If you feel that you are saved'' - You said..

But you did not say,from what or why...

that is a good question what is the christian saved from?

 

[howard]

From that wrath that comes upon every person who rejects the sacrifice that Jesus made upon the cross. These people have chosen to justify themselves before God, but they fail to realize they cannot justify themselves before a holy God. This is why God came down, in flesh, to do what no man could do: Walk without sin and thereby become a worthy sacrifice to atone for the sins of the whole world. If they chose to accept this sacrifice.

Yourself, for instance, I bet you feel you're a fine person and that if there is a God, and there most certainly is, that He would think you're a fine example of a person. But this delusion is based upon your standard, not God's standard (which is the ten commandments).

By God's standard, you have fallen short and you owe a debt for your sin. Do you want to be accountable for that debt, or are you willing to consider accepting Jesus as your propitiation for your sins? This is what getting "saved" is all about.

yet after Jesus went back and set at the right hand of the Father

he had Paul write to us to continue to keep the commandments Of God

which suggest to me that we are not saved.

Rom 13

<SUP>7</SUP>Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

<SUP id=en-KJV-28275 class=versenum>8</SUP>Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28276 class=versenum>9</SUP>For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. <SUP id=en-KJV-28277 class=versenum>10</SUP>Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[EphremHagos]

If you feel that you are saved, I'm sure that you know the few verses that seem to imply this.

Such as (l Corinthians 1:18) "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God and

(2 Corinthians 2:15) "For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them that are saved, and in them that perish."

both of these scriptures are true, but when, how, and what will be saved?

The question concerns the complete story centered on the once and for all saving power of Christ's death on the cross: Spirit-active, perfect and diacritical with room for personal verification!

In other words, salvation is the same as being "born spiritually of the Spirit", i.e.,in the knowledge of God/Christ,as prescribed for follow up and obedience (John 3: 1-15; 19: 30-42); and also instantaneously delivered to the second man crucified with Jesus (Luke 23: 40-43).