Are you really saved?

ozell · Nov 10, 2011

most people don't understand that you have a role in saving yourself

Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Ezekiel 14

12The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: 14Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

my_little_pony · Nov 10, 2011

Hi Ozell,

Lol, I just counted 10 posts from you in a row! Really, you are an eccentric person, but I don't see that as necessarily demeaning or whatever words TCH used to express his/her offense at my comments about your many posts.

Anyway, I feel you ask a very relevant question here...

Ozell said:
why discuss it at all?

it should not be done!!!

This was a response in response to my comments to TCH that I was willing to discuss his/her concerns about sarcasm and demeaning comments which I apparently made.

I suggested that TCH should approach me personally or start a new thread.

This was based on two points:

1) so as not to derail this thread by getting bogged down in arguments over whether I did actually make sarcastic or demeaning comments, and even then, what it means to be sarcastic or demeaing, and even then, whehter I was justified in my comments or not. There is a lot of room for debate on that issue and I didn't want the topic to be derailed by it.

2) Jesus suggested that, if you have a problem with your brother/sister, then go to that person privately, first, and THEN if he/she will not listen, involve other witnesses and then if that person still refuses to listen, take it to the entire church body. Matthew 18:15

I was suggesting that TCH could start with the first step by contacting me privately.

I said you asked a very relevant question, because I feel this is a very good example of a command of Jesus and something which can be applied in practical, everyday life.

How do you see it, Ozell? Is there any method on this forum for approaching personal disagreements in the way Jesus suggested? And if not, why not?

How do you see it working in your own personal life?

Also, what did you think about my comments to TCH about Jesus' teachings against using special titles for one another like "Mr." and "Sir"?

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

y_little_pony;188272]Hi Ozell,

Lol, I just counted 10 posts from you in a row! Really, you are an eccentric person, but I don't see that as necessarily demeaning or whatever words TCH used to express his/her offense at my comments about your many posts.

Anyway, I feel you ask a very relevant question here...

This was a response in response to my comments to TCH that I was willing to discuss his/her concerns about sarcasm and demeaning comments which I apparently made.

I suggested that TCH should approach me personally or start a new thread.

This was based on two points:

1) so as not to derail this thread by getting bogged down in arguments over whether I did actually make sarcastic or demeaning comments, and even then, what it means to be sarcastic or demeaing, and even then, whehter I was justified in my comments or not. There is a lot of room for debate on that issue and I didn't want the topic to be derailed by it.

2) Jesus suggested that, if you have a problem with your brother/sister, then go to that person privately, first, and THEN if he/she will not listen, involve other witnesses and then if that person still refuses to listen, take it to the entire church body. Matthew 18:15

I was suggesting that TCH could start with the first step by contacting me privately.

I said you asked a very relevant question, because I feel this is a very good example of a command of Jesus and something which can be applied in practical, everyday life.

when you speak your own words and your words are not Godly you run a risk of offending people.

when you speak the words of God then God's word will be the offender
then you can tell them to see Jesus if they are offended

lets read where the word of God may offend people and christian may become offended in God's word

John 6:60-62

60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 
62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Luke 7:23
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

How do you see it working in your own personal life?

Click to expand...

I try not to offend even speak my own words because most people don't have a spiritual understanding, most people are emotional charged

1 Corinthians 8:12-13

12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

James 3:2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Also, what did you think about my comments to TCH about Jesus' teachings against using special titles for one another like "Mr." and "Sir"?

where is this written?

what I can read is this from Jesus

Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20:11-13&version=KJV

How do you see it, Ozell? Is there any method on this forum for approaching personal disagreements in the way Jesus suggested? And if not, why not?

personal feeling and emotions is what hampers people even Christians in the word of God. Our Emotions has no place in God's word.

lets read where the Lord said lets reason together.

the Lord don't want us to use our thoughts or emotions in dealing with his words
Isaiah 1:17-19

17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 
19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Isaiah 55:7-9

7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 
9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

=

my_little_pony;188272]Hi Ozell,

Lol, I just counted 10 posts from you in a row! Really, you are an eccentric person, but I don't see that as necessarily demeaning or whatever words TCH used to express his/her offense at my comments about your many posts.

the word of God the bible is a big book

comment on the posts.

its not hard to dismiss the OSAS doctrine or questions a person belief that they are saved now.

its many many examples in God's word to disprove the myth.

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

why is the wheat growing with the tares?

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
http://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13:29-31&version=KJV
it seems to me that the wheat will be delivered in the end , but for now they must grow with the tares.

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

surely the saved folks are the saints of the bible

yet I read that the AC will make war with the saints and ovewrcome them

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

it is very very strange that osas did n ot work here on GOD'S SAINTS.

very strange:wink:

my_little_pony · Nov 12, 2011

Hi Ozell,

A point of clarification; I'm not arguing OSAS so I'm not sure if those points are meant for me. Anyway.

When the issue of salvation comes up I think about the teachings of Jesus, in the sense that he was trying to teach us what God is looking for in his servants. What's the point of being saved if we don't want to apply the values of the Kingdom of Heaven, right?

That is why I brought up the two examples of the grievance system and "call no man father".

They are examples of what we can do to apply Jesus' teachings in a practical way, and yet they are very rarely applied, for various reasons.

For example, the issue of special titles. You asked where it is written. It comes from Matthew 23 starting with verse 8, I think.

Jesus says that we should call no man on Earth father or master. I mentioned the reason he gave for WHY people should not do that and also that the words "Sir" and "Mr" are shortened versions of father and master, respectively.

It's a command of Jesus, with a fairly good reason behind it. It's quite rare to find anyone willing to even consider that Jesus actually meant what he said, and that we should not use these special titles for one another.

You mentioned something about honoring father and mother, but this raises two points.
1) What about honoring our heavenly father, if he tells us to do something which contradicts what our Earthly parents want us to do?

2) Is it possible to honor our parents without the use to special titles, and is it necessarily dishonor to refer to our parents by their names?

I understand that children are probably an exception to this because they need to know that they have a special relationship to their biological parents which is different from their relationship to other adults.

However, what happens when the children grow up and are no longer children?

Regarding the grievance system, it comes from Matthew 18.

I try not to offend even speak my own words because most people don't have a spiritual understanding, most people are emotional charged

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. I am not necessarily talking about US not offending people, but rather, when we feel someone else has said or done something offensive that needs to be addressed.

For example if someone is caught in a lie, or is gossiping, or makes personal remarks about another person here on the forum, or is caught stealing or being greedy etc...

How do we approach that situation? I suggested that there are very few people who handle it the way Jesus said to handle it, and yet, it was his opinion on how to handle disagreements.

I'm not saying it's all black and white, but we need to start somewhere.

jari · Nov 13, 2011

Hi Ozell, a repply to your post...

ozell said:
surely the saved folks are the saints of the bible

yet I read that the AC will make war with the saints and ovewrcome them

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

it is very very strange that osas did n ot work here on GOD'S SAINTS.

very strange:wink:

have you not heard of martyr death? it sounds like this was their fate in book of revelation. But it certainly doesnt mean they werent saved.

Also i got the idea that every saint in revelation were lost... but this i think would be unbiblical as God looses none of His. Even we die we are still the Lords.

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

jari said:
Hi Ozell, a repply to your post...

have you not heard of martyr death? it sounds like this was their fate in book of revelation. But it certainly doesnt mean they werent saved.

Also i got the idea that every saint in revelation were lost... but this i think would be unbiblical as God looses none of His. Even we die we are still the Lords.

is martyr a word the Lord uses?

the point is if we are osas should the saints be made war against?

the teaching of today is the saint are raptured or osas why is these saints suffering and even killed.?

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

my_little_pony said:
Hi Ozell,

A point of clarification; I'm not arguing OSAS so I'm not sure if those points are meant for me. Anyway.

When the issue of salvation comes up I think about the teachings of Jesus, in the sense that he was trying to teach us what God is looking for in his servants. What's the point of being saved if we don't want to apply the values of the Kingdom of Heaven, right?

That is why I brought up the two examples of the grievance system and "call no man father".

They are examples of what we can do to apply Jesus' teachings in a practical way, and yet they are very rarely applied, for various reasons.

For example, the issue of special titles. You asked where it is written. It comes from Matthew 23 starting with verse 8, I think.

Jesus says that we should call no man on Earth father or master. I mentioned the reason he gave for WHY people should not do that and also that the words "Sir" and "Mr" are shortened versions of father and master, respectively.

It's a command of Jesus, with a fairly good reason behind it. It's quite rare to find anyone willing to even consider that Jesus actually meant what he said, and that we should not use these special titles for one another.

You mentioned something about honoring father and mother, but this raises two points.
1) What about honoring our heavenly father, if he tells us to do something which contradicts what our Earthly parents want us to do?

2) Is it possible to honor our parents without the use to special titles, and is it necessarily dishonor to refer to our parents by their names?

I understand that children are probably an exception to this because they need to know that they have a special relationship to their biological parents which is different from their relationship to other adults.

However, what happens when the children grow up and are no longer children?

Regarding the grievance system, it comes from Matthew 18.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. I am not necessarily talking about US not offending people, but rather, when we feel someone else has said or done something offensive that needs to be addressed.

For example if someone is caught in a lie, or is gossiping, or makes personal remarks about another person here on the forum, or is caught stealing or being greedy etc...

How do we approach that situation? I suggested that there are very few people who handle it the way Jesus said to handle it, and yet, it was his opinion on how to handle disagreements.

I'm not saying it's all black and white, but we need to start somewhere.

Matthew 19:19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Sir and Mr
Maam or Mrs

what wrong with it?

as far as the other part of the post let it suffice.

jari · Nov 13, 2011

ozell said:
is martyr a word the Lord uses?

the point is if we are osas should the saints be made war against?

the teaching of today is the saint are raptured or osas why is these saints suffering and even killed.?

its called persecuation.

which is whole another big topic.

jari · Nov 13, 2011

i must say im surprised that you dont seem to consider people being persecuated because of their faith... and going to Heaven. instead you see persecuation and martyrdom as failure?

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

jari said:
its called persecuation.

which is whole another big topic.

maybe

but the fact of the matter these people went into the Great Tribulation saints

why is the saints in the great tribulation according to the doctrines of today the saints are raptured or OSAS?

jari · Nov 13, 2011

ozell said:
maybe

but the fact of the matter these people went into the Great Tribulation saints

why is the saints in the great tribulation according to the doctrines of today the saints are raptured or OSAS?

rapture and wheater its before or after tribulation is yet another topic.

but if it says saints i supose they are saints who are persecuated by AC.

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

jari said:
i must say im surprised that you dont seem to consider people being persecuated because of their faith... and going to Heaven. instead you see persecuation and martyrdom as failure?

no I did not say or imply that

I know people will be persecuted for the name of the Lord this is written

what I trying to show in this thread are you really saved according to the doctrine that is taught today

if a person die in doing God's business there is a very good chance he will be saved(resurrection)

as for now as we walk the earth in this flesh are we really saved?

how do you know?

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

jari said:
rapture and wheater its before or after tribulation is yet another topic.

but if it says saints i supose they are saints who are persecuated by AC.

we read that the saints had was against them

are we not striving to be the saints of God?

I am and hopefully you are to, and the teaching of today teaches that osas and the saints will be raptured before the GT

but we read that the AC made was against the saints and prevailed

if the saints are in the GT which we read, why where these saints saved before the GT?

jari · Nov 13, 2011

ozell said:
we read that the saints had was against them

are we not striving to be the saints of God?

I am and hopefully you are to, and the teaching of today teaches that osas and the saints will be raptured before the GT

but we read that the AC made was against the saints and prevailed

if the saints are in the GT which we read, why where these saints saved before the GT?

i think ur assuming saints are raptured before GT because its very controversial topic. Your also assuming no one becomes believer during tribulation and a saint.

And all born again Christians are saints...

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

jari said:
i think ur assuming saints are raptured before GT because its very controversial topic. Your also assuming no one becomes believer during tribulation and a saint.

And all born again Christians are saints...

I'm not assuming that, I know that God's chosen won't be in the GT, I can read this to

you read where the AC makes war against the saints?

how do you explain this?

also where is it written that the saints are born again christians?

ozell · Nov 13, 2011

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

why are the saints being warred against and losing if you are saved?

simple question

jari · Nov 13, 2011

i already answered the question. They die because of persecuation. But are still saved.
i believe book of revelation talks lot about the slain saints and how God avenges their death.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

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