Are you a child of Light or of Darkness?

[my_little_pony]

So you're saying it's soon right? You do realize people have been saying "soon" for around 2000 years right?

So what? Whether he said "soon" or "a long time" or "nearly" or "at hand" or "just give me a minute" or whatever, eccl is right. He told us to watch. That is the point of faithfulness.

I don't mean to crash the second coming party here, but it could happen 50,000 years from now for all we know.

If the point is to watch, then how does this statement relate to that? So what if it's 50,000 years away?

Not one single time does the bible say that being baptized in water and speaking in tongues is required for salvation. Every single time you post no evidence at all, or you post scripture of situations where it talks about either being baptized in Jesus Christ or someone being baptized after being saved by faith.

lol Fraction you have spoken my mind! I share your frustration. I am not familiar as you are with the person you are addressing here, but I've seen it many times before on forums and in real life.

All will be like those in Noahs time , eating, drinking, making merry in spite of warnings. So it will be so when Christ does return. There will be no sign per say to show or to know his hour or time of return. So he will come when all are unaware.

Not all of us. I think that is the point eccl keeps trying to get people to think about. Watch. In other words, don't be unaware. Don't be like the people of sodom and Noah's day, who were too busy with the cares of life like eating, drinking, buying/selling, marrying, giving in marriage, planting/harvesting etc to think about the things of God.

I see no mention of any signs to let anyone know the time of his return. All we are told is that certain things will happen like wars and natural disasters prior to his arrival.

Eccl listed some "signs" in his/her opening post. One of the more relevant signs that caught my attention was the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem (or some other way to resume animal sacrifices).

In Daniel 9 an angel gives Daniel a prophecy saying that the "prince" will cause the sacrfices to cease in the middle of the "week" (7 years). Since the Jews can only sacrifice in the one place, this prophecy MUST be referring to somehow rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem.

There is a fair bit of background to this particular prophecy but the jist of it is that from the time the temple is rebuilt, God's people will have 7 years of visible reign left before Jesus returns.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Not all of us. I think that is the point eccl keeps trying to get people to think about. Watch. In other words, don't be unaware. Don't be like the people of sodom and Noah's day, who were too busy with the cares of life like eating, drinking, buying/selling, marrying, giving in marriage, planting/harvesting etc to think about the things of God.

Thank you! This is ALL that I have been trying to convey. There is no reason that Jesus return should catch those that read and understand God's word by surprise. Do not be 'unaware', by watching for those things thats Jesus spoke of. There is no need for God's people to be as those in the days of Noah.

The building of the temple, or some sort of way to sacrifices animals, is one of the signs Jesus gave us to be on the watch for.

Again.....I am not claiming to know the day or the hour. God's word tells us no one knows that. But can we know His return is near when we see animal sacrifices resumed again in Jerusalem? Yes!

.

 

[my_little_pony]

Again.....I am not claiming to know the day or the hour. God's word tells us no one knows that

Although I agree it is true, now, that no one knows the day or hour, I don't believe Jesus' statement was an all or nothing statement.

For starters, it wasn't a command, but just a comment about the end times. There is no indication that it cannot change with the passing of time. In fact, the "watch" teaching very strongly suggests that, at some point in the future people may be able to calculate the day.

Before people blast me, please note that I said "suggests" and "may" in that last sentence.

The rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem (or some other way to cause sacrifices to resume) is a major part of end time prophecy. The Daniel 9 prophecy which mentions animal sacrifices gives a period of time, i.e. "middle of the weak", or 3.5 years.

This time period is consistent with references from the Revelation about 3.5 years, 42 months, and 1260 days (using a prophetic calender of 360 days per year).

There are also several time sequences given in Daniel which are relevant to the Revelation.

By putting these time sequences together it could be possible to work out the day of Jesus' return, but the key factor that it all hinges on is the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.

Until that event happens, all the numbers are fairly meaningless when trying to pin down a specific day.

On the other hand if people are curios to see how the numbers fit together into a consistent time line, you can have a look at simba-judah.webs.com . In the right hand bottom of the page there is a link for a study on the Revelation. In the chapter listing there is a chapter for "time line".

 

[Eccl12v13]

By putting these time sequences together it could be possible to work out the day of Jesus' return,......

So how is possible for us to work out the day of Jesus return when the scriptures tells us that even Jesus Himself does not know the day?

Mark 13
[26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
[27] And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

So how is it that we can know MORE than the Son?

Again.....This post is not about knowing or trying to figure the exact date and time of Jesus second coming. This is just to let people know that God does give us signs to watch for to let us know that Jesus second coming is near. One of those signs is the building of the temple. Then there is the starting of the daily sacrifices. Another sign to watch for is the stopping of the daily sacrifices. We are also told the following;

Matt.24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

That a man spoken of by Daniel the prophet will stand in the holy place. So to know about this man Jesus tells us to read in the book of Daniel.

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And sometime after this man is in the holy place there will be a time of tribulation that was not since the beginning of the world up until the time of the man sitting in the holy place. And there will NEVER be a time such as this again. This can only happen ONCE!

And what happens AFTER this time of tribulation?

[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

God's word tells us it is AFTER the time of tribulation that Jesus returns. And who knows when this all will take place?

[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Only God the Father! And what are some of the events that happens when He returns?

[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Some will be gathered and some will be left behind. And God's word tells us this will happen AFTER the tribulation that can only happen ONCE!

[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Jesus was very clear as to what events would take place BEFORE His second return.

[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Jesus tells us to watch and be ready! Watch for what?

1. The man of sin placed in the holy place!
2. The starting of animal sacrifices. Spoken of in Dan.
3. The stopping of animal sacrifices. Also spoken of in Dan.
4. A time of trouble that has never been since the beginning of time nor will there ever be a time like it again.

Jesus tells us to watch for all of these things and know that His coming is near.

Do we know the day or the hour? No! But we will know, after seeing all of the above, that His return is soon.

.

 

[my_little_pony]

So how is possible for us to work out the day of Jesus return when the scriptures tells us that even Jesus Himself does not know the day?

At the time he said it, he didn't know. But how sure are you that he doesn't know, now? I am suggesting that we be open to the spirit on this and that we be flexible in our understanding. The Bible is a fantastic guide for how we should live, but it is only that; a guide.

Even Jesus himself said that his words are spirit and in a different place he said the spirit is like the wind which blows where it wants. If we try to put the wind in a box, it ceases to be wind.

So how is it that we can know MORE than the Son?

Not suggesting that we know more than Jesus. I'm just suggesting that the command to "watch" could include NEW information that was not present at the time Jesus made the comment that know one knows the day or hour.

Again.....This post is not about knowing or trying to figure the exact date and time of Jesus second coming

Well, it is your topic so it's not really my place to tell you what it should be about. But, it does look a bit like you may be suggesting that just wanting to know the day and hour is somehow wrong, because of what Jesus said about no man knowing. Is that right?

 

[therealreason]

read danial 10. were in the time of the antichrist. there is a new reform coming. about bringing everything together, and its true.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Well, it is your topic so it's not really my place to tell you what it should be about. But, it does look a bit like you may be suggesting that just wanting to know the day and hour is somehow wrong, because of what Jesus said about no man knowing. Is that right?

That's not right at all! At no time did I ever say it was wrong to try to know the day or the hour.

As I said in post #22; "There is no reason that Jesus return should catch those that read and understand God's word by surprise. Do not be 'unaware', by watching for those things thats Jesus spoke of. There is no need for God's people to be as those in the days of Noah."

This is ALL I have been trying to convey. Why? Because some, if not most, are taught that there is NO WAY can know when Jesus will return, but God's word tells His return should not catch us by surprise.

.

 

[therealreason]

enoch is the only one who knows.

 

[my_little_pony]

That's not right at all! At no time did I ever say it was wrong to try to know the day or the hour.

Ok Eccl. Thanks for clarifying. It's just that you seemed a bit agitated when I suggested that there may come a time when we WILL be able to know the day, when new information (i.e. these events) take place, despite Jesus not knowing the day, when he made the comment, or that we can't really know right now.

You said:

So how is possible for us to work out the day of Jesus return when the scriptures tells us that even Jesus Himself does not know the day?

and

So how is it that we can know MORE than the Son?

Anyway, it's good to see that you are open to working it out and to keep watching.

 

[therealreason]

stop worrying. if you believe in jesus there is no condemnation. we cant live by works but by faith which will change our works. if we concern our mind to act like jesus. inside out, not outside in. doesnt work that way.

 

[therealreason]

i believe enoch will tell you before he dies.

 

[my_little_pony]

stop worrying.

Worrying about what?

we cant live by works but by faith which will change our works

Who's talking about "living by works" and what does "living by works" mean, anyway?

You say we can't live by works, like works is a bad thing, but then you talk about how faith can change our works, like works is a good thing. It's confusing.

if we concern our mind to act like jesus.

Wait, an "if" statement usually includes the condition required to fulfill the if. "If we concern our mind to act like Jesus...what? What's the rest of the sentence? lol

i believe enoch will tell you before he dies.

This isn't star wars and no cute little enochs are gonna jump out of the bushes to tell me anything.

 

[therealreason]

read the two witnesses in revalations 11. and its not the church becuase its in danial 7 to the end of the book. read enoch how he was translated to heaven without seeing death, plus when you mind thinks it your going to do it, the other way doesnt work.