Another Jesus?

[Coconut]

Another Jesus?

Is the Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church the biblical Jesus? Knowing and believing the real Jesus is critical because Jesus said, "If you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins" (John 8:24). A different Jesus is preached by many deceivers (2 Corinthians 11:3-4) who deny His finished work of redemption.

The Mormons preach Jesus is the brother of Lucifer and was a man who became God.

The Jehovah Witnesses preach Jesus was not God but claim he was Michael the arch angel.

Roman Catholicism preaches a Jesus that was unable to purge all sin or pay the complete penalty for sin.

The Biblical Jesus assures Christians they have been saved from condemnation. "Now that we have been justified by His blood, it is all the more certain that we shall be saved by Him from God's wrath" (Roman 5:9). The one time, perfect and all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus completely satisfied the wrath of God (1 John 2:2).

Roman Catholicism denies this fundamental teaching and deceives its people into believing that the sacrifice of the Mass satisfied God's wrath not only for the sins of the living but also for the sins of the dead (Canon 3, Council of Trent). Catholics are cursed with anathema by their church if they claim they are saved from God's wrath, (Canon 30, Council of Trent). Catholics know Jesus only as a "gate opener" to heaven. For Catholics to go through the gates of heaven they must save themselves through the Mass and sacraments.

The Jesus of the Bible expiates sin. "Through His blood, God made Him the means of the expiation for all who believe" (Roman 3:25). Yet the Catholic Church teaches Catholics must expiate their own sins. "This may be done through the sorrows, miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments of purifying punishments" (Vatican Council II).

The Jesus of the Bible is the only mediator between God and man (I Timothy 2:15), yet the Roman Catholic Church offers Mary as the mediator. Pope Pius IX proclaimed that "God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary."

The Jesus of the Bible claimed He was the only way to the heavenly Father (John 14:6). Vatican II denies this by stating, "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst who are the Moslems."

So why does the Roman Catholic Church hide the real Jesus from its followers? Because the real Jesus sets people free! In contrast, the Roman Catholic Church maintains control of its people through legalistic rituals, sacraments and threats of anathema's. The biblical Jesus saves believers from the bondage of sin, deception and religion.

http://www.pro-gospel.org/topics.php

 

[Faithful Son]

It's just very sad to hear the opinion of these different religions, and it's even more sad to know what a grip these religions have on the world today.

All we can do is pray. God knows what's going on in the world today. The roman catholic church has been around longer than I have. God has to have a purpose with these people or He would have removed them from their position of authority. You said in shoutbox you come from a catholic background Coconut.

What do the catholics teach regarding salvation? Is Jesus the only way to go to heaven? What is their teaching regarding being born again?

 

[Chad]

It's just very sad to hear the opinion of these different religions, and it's even more sad to know what a grip these religions have on the world today.

All we can do is pray. God knows what's going on in the world today. The roman catholic church has been around longer than I have. God has to have a purpose with these people or He would have removed them from their position of authority. You said in shoutbox you come from a catholic background Coconut.

What do the catholics teach regarding salvation? Is Jesus the only way to go to heaven? What is their teaching regarding being born again?

As for "authority", they are not authority and never were. Jesus Christ is Authority and that is it, period. Just because man calls himself authority or a group/cult, it does not make them authority at all. Same for what is "popular" or "majority", means nothing but jibberish thrash that will pass. If GOD wanted to remove anyone for their deceit, I believe the majority of mankind would have been wiped out by now. Basically put, justice will be served on GOD's timing not ours

Psalm 1:5-6
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6 for the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish.

Psalm 37:27-29
27 Turn away from evil and do good;
so shall you dwell forever.
28 For the LORD loves justice;
he will not forsake his saints.
They are preserved forever,
but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land
and dwell upon it forever.

 

[Irishmaestro]

Despite what anyone may say, salvation comes only from faith in Christ, and not from works of any kind. Consider the following passage, which is used by the RCC to justify the notion of salvation by faith and works:

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)​

The meaning of this passage is very simple. If any faith does not produce good works, then it is dead (i.e. not true faith), for true faith produces good works. Good works do not procure salvation, but salvation produces good works. Nowhere does this passage imply that works are necessary for salvation. =)

 

[jiggyfly]

Despite what anyone may say, salvation comes only from faith in Christ, and not from works of any kind. Consider the following passage, which is used by the RCC to justify the notion of salvation by faith and works:

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)​

The meaning of this passage is very simple. If any faith does not produce good works, then it is dead (i.e. not true faith), for true faith produces good works. Good works do not procure salvation, but salvation produces good works. Nowhere does this passage imply that works are necessary for salvation. =)

Good post Irishmaestro, well said.

 

[stephen]

In John ch 14 Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life"

Without the Way, there is no Going
Without the Truth,there is no Knowing
Without the Life,there is no Living.

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, thats what Jesus said. On this web site........we believe it.......Amen

 

[Irishmaestro]

In John ch 14 Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life"
Without the Way, there is no Going
Without the Truth,there is no Knowing
Without the Life,there is no Living.
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, thats what Jesus said. On this web site........we believe it.......Amen

Well said! Lord bless you! =)

 

[stephen]

Well said! Lord bless you! =)

God Bless You too brother. We need His blessing, amen, which He gives to us daily As we live for Him....

 

[Coconut]

No teraside, you must be mistaken in what you read, I do not have a catholic background, however Fellowservant was gloriously converted to Christ from a catholic upbringing (he has an amazing testimony if you would like to ask him about it)

What do the catholics teach regarding salvation? That you must be catholic first and foremost, and there is no salvation outside the catholic church and adherance to its teachings and partaking of its sacraments.
Is Jesus the only way to go to heaven? Yes. (Does the catholic church say Jesus is the only way to heaven? Well yes, they say He is, along with Mary as co-redeemer of course.)
Note -John Paul II has no problem kissing the Koran, a book that denies Jesus is the Son of God. Does this make you ask what allegiance the Shepherd of the catholic church has for Christ?
What is their teaching regarding being born again? They teach water baptism is the rebirth.


Jesus is the Good Shepherd who gave His life for His sheep.

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine." (John 10:I0-14)

Roman Catholicism would have us believe that the pope is the "good shepherd" here in Christ's stead, thus the title: "Vicar of Christ" and "Shepherd of the Universal Church". If this be so, it begs the question why has the 'Shepherd(s)' of the catholic church allowed the Word of God to be bypassed and/or upsurped by thier very own, to bring the world another gospel besides that which Christ preached?

If you are Catholic and have placed your trust in the catholic church, the Pope, or in Mary for salvation, or anything along with Christ, you will be lost, according to the Word of God. I invite you to come to the true Shepherd who "...did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth...Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." (1 Pet.2:22-25

I came across this website earlier called IT IS FINISHED...amen!
http://itisfinished.vze.com/

 

[Faithful Son]

Sorry Coconut, I apologize my friend, lol. I confused you with Chad. I made a mistake when reading shoutbox.

Chadi: Same here, I abandoned the false doctrine and went directly to TRUTH as told in the Holy Bible, no other "bible" version but the one annointed and breathed by the Holy Spirit, the TRUE author

Thanks for answering my questions about the roman catholic church. I agree with you Chad, Jesus is the only authority there is. I used the wrong words to convey my intention. You made it clear that God will serve justice at His own timing. I fully agree with this.
I believe though that God also has the ability to remove leaders and or people if He is not pleased. The story comes to mind of King Herod, if I'm not mistaken. The angel of God knocked him dead and the worms ate his body.
I guess this is always in my mind, that whatever the world may do. God is supreme, and if He chooses no one can hide from His justice.

Acts 12:21-23

21On an appointed day Herod, having put on his royal apparel, took his seat on the rostrum and began delivering an address to them.

22The people kept crying out, "The voice of a god and not of a man!"

23And immediately an angel of the Lord struck him because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and died.

 

[sieffiej]

Yes, i believe that too. the mormons, chatolics and jehovah whitnesses are wrong. they don't know the truth!

 

[Coconut]

No problem teraside...at least not for me...poor Chad tho...hes been called many things, but dont think anyones ever confused him with me LOL!

You made a good point, we know the powers that be are ordained of God, but what He allows is not necessarily the same as what He approves. Jesus speaks a dire warning to his diciples (that including us) to be especially careful of offences [offend meaning here to entrap, cause to stumble to apostasy; (abandon faith) ]: or we will also go to where 'the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.' (Mark 9)

There are no warnings anywhere in the Bible to not upset a man by warning him to obey God, (This is my beloved Son: hear him - Mark 9:7) ..but the warning is clearly written not to offend him (cause him to stumble) God tells us that He is a jealous God, and His glory He will not share with another, so any religion, dogma, creed, etc; that teaches us that Jesus is just a prophet, or that He is only a co-redeemer, or that His saving power must be added to by the sacrificial offerings or works of man (God calls these filthy rags, wether its the additional salvic teachings of the catholic church, or any other religion) is according to the Word of God, all damnable lies.

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness,to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But ye have not so learned Christ;

 

[Kenny]

Greetings in the name of the YaHVeH of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob;

I found the title to this thread interesting. I cannot recall exactly which verse of scripture and what word it was for each, but there are references in the Bible about the antichrist being A. Another (christ) and B. spurious. These definitions come from the Greek which was translated/transliterated to English.

Certainly, the Popes claim to be the "vicar" of Christ (God). I find all of their councilitory claims to be repulsive. Further more, to carry the ideas you have explored further, the concept of the "trinity" came out of one of those "councils"!

Why do we need to believe that God is three persons. The book of Isaiah clearly reveals that God (YaHVeH (Jehovah), says that he is the only saviour, redeemer, etc.

God being who he is, in my book can certainly be in three places at one time. They always point to Jesus' baptism as proof of the ":trinity". OH YEAH?!

Their reading ability is suspect to me. So many claim that the Holy Spirit was in the form of a dove at Jesus' baptism. But CLOSE reading reveals that it was the manner of the decent of the spirit that "was as of a dove" not visage (the way it looked). So much is lost in translation and further muddied by interpretation, it's a wonder anyone has a clear view of what the Bible says.

Just my two cents worth.

Agape

 

[Chad]

Kenny, this is for you

This has been discussed many times so I will simply copy/paste my responses from the other threads. Although GOD is made of 3 persons as One GOD - it is One Spirit. I have purposely marked them in red (any names pertaining to the 3 person of our One GOD). My information below should show that GOD is 3 persons in One Spirit, One GOD.

Acts 5:30-32

30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Acts 7:55-57
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [ Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals ] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Trinity: Webster’s dictionary gives the following definition of trinity: “The union of three divine persons (or hypostases), the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one divinity, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three Persons (or hypostases as to individuality).” Synonyms sometimes used are triunity, trine, triality. The term “trinity” is formed from “tri,” three, and “nity,” unity. Triunity is a better term than “trinity” because it better expresses the idea of three in one. God is three in one. Hypostases is the plural of hypostasis which means “the substance, the underlying reality, or essence.”

Tri-theism. This is the teaching that there are three Gods who are sometimes related, but only in a loose association. Such an approach, abandons the biblical oneness of God and the unity within the Trinity

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

James 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”

There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).

Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead.

• In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament.
• The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20).
• The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.”
• The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).

(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).

(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”

Ryrie writes: “Matthew 28:19 best states both the oneness and threeness by associating equally the three Persons and uniting them in one singular name. Other passages like Matthew 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 associate equally the three Persons but do not contain the strong emphasis on unity as does Matthew 28:19.”18

2 Cor. 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, tat you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

Dictionary:

Gentiles
(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.

In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1, 3; 18:17; Rom. 1:14), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation.

 

[Kenny]

Another Jesus

Hi Chad;

Well, I wasn't looking for a lesson on the Trinity. I used to hold to it, but have since begun to lean toward modalism, my own, let me assure you, not Sabellianism.

I was seeing what you might say about the "another christ" and "spurious" mentions.

Agape

Kenny

 

[Chad]

Well, I wasn't looking for a lesson on the Trinity. I used to hold to it, but have since begun to lean toward modalism, my own, let me assure you, not Sabellianism.
Kenny

And "my own" is called religion not Truth. The bible speaks clearly of 3 person as one GOD. Do not preach your "my own modalism" on my forums. This is a forum for Truth, not self righteousness nor debates.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Interesting thing about Kenny's profile. He lists Ohio as his location, but his flag is that of AbuDhabi, one of those emirates in the Persian Gulf.

ED

 

[Chad]

Biography:
I am conducting a personal study of the whole church. I have been a Lutheran, a Methodist, a Baptist, a Quaker, and now a Presbyterian. I have attended and read the literature of many Pentecostal ministers and made a huge study of Roman Catholicism.

That speaks volumes. Kenny, humble yourself before Jesus Christ our Savior. Do not go by your own perishable wisdom. It is for your own sake to seek His face and not your own heart nor wisdom of man. For whatever purpose you decide to be all these religions shows you are lost and need to pray for guidance, wisdom and surrender yourself in the meantime.

 

[Fellowservant]

Greetings in the name of the YaHVeH of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob;
I found the title to this thread interesting. I cannot recall exactly which verse of scripture and what word it was for each, but there are references in the Bible about the antichrist being A. Another (christ) and B. spurious. These definitions come from the Greek which was translated/transliterated to English.
Certainly, the Popes claim to be the "vicar" of Christ (God). I find all of their councilitory claims to be repulsive. Further more, to carry the ideas you have explored further, the concept of the "trinity" came out of one of those "councils"!
Why do we need to believe that God is three persons. The book of Isaiah clearly reveals that God (YaHVeH (Jehovah), says that he is the only saviour, redeemer, etc.
God being who he is, in my book can certainly be in three places at one time. They always point to Jesus' baptism as proof of the ":trinity". OH YEAH?!
Their reading ability is suspect to me. So many claim that the Holy Spirit was in the form of a dove at Jesus' baptism. But CLOSE reading reveals that it was the manner of the decent of the spirit that "was as of a dove" not visage (the way it looked). So much is lost in translation and further muddied by interpretation, it's a wonder anyone has a clear view of what the Bible says.
Just my two cents worth.
Agape

A Modalist believes that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one person only.

Modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three persons...


Read these verses then tell me if the Son and the Father are the same person.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all. [/B]

As you can see the Son here is going to be subject to the Father when this is all said and done. So how could the Father be under the Father in authority? Can't be done. So i wouldn't join the Modalist camp so soon. There are three that bear record in heaven, and these three are one 1John 5:7. Hense one God three persons...

 

[winn12]

Dear brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ . I come to you today by the grace of our Father. Just to remind you the battle is allready been fought an won by our savior Jesus Christ. NOW our job is to spread the word. For those that do not belive .When once the master of the house is risen up and hath shut to the door,and ye being to stand without,and to knock at the door,saying Lord,Lord,open unto us;and he shall answer and say,I know you not whence ye are . St.Luke 13-25 God bless and spread the word