Butch5
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No problem brother. I know how busy we can be. There are times when I'm going for weeks on end.
Anihilationism
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Admon Mikha'el,
re: "Ahh? Is that what you really think?"
Yes, that is what I really think.
re: "All of those who wind up in the lake of fire will have heard the salvation message several times over. They will have had the choice presented to them many times over."
But again, they would have to believe - be convinced - that one of the choices would result in them being tortured day and night for eternity.
re: "Only a person who has no knowledge of the Word, no knowledge of God would say such a thing as you just said here."
Having the knowledge doesn't mean that they believe it.
re: "Ahh? Is that what you really think?"
Yes, that is what I really think.
re: "All of those who wind up in the lake of fire will have heard the salvation message several times over. They will have had the choice presented to them many times over."
But again, they would have to believe - be convinced - that one of the choices would result in them being tortured day and night for eternity.
re: "Only a person who has no knowledge of the Word, no knowledge of God would say such a thing as you just said here."
Having the knowledge doesn't mean that they believe it.
Admon Mikha'el
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Well that's ok...Annialationism is not in the bible anyway.
Butch5
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Actually, that the wicked will be destroyed is all through the Binle
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Hello @Admon Mikha'el,
You are right that annihilationism is not in the Bible, for it is a word and concept of man's devising. What is in the Bible is what @Butch5 has referred to, that God will judge mankind justly, and will administer the appropriate punishment, where the gift of life is not an option. Final destruction will be the ultimate end for the wicked and unbelieving. For just as God, in Christ Jesus, will save to the uttermost those who come to Him for salvation through faith in His Beloved Son, So He will utterly destroy the wicked.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Butch5
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He makes quite a few unsubstantiated claims there. That's not to mention the things that simply aren't Biblical.
Admon Mikha'el
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Show me
Admon Mikha'el
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Show where it is not biblical.
Admon Mikha'el
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You too Chris...show me.
Butch5
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Several passages have already been posted. However, Psalm 37 says it several times.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. (Ps. 37:10 KJV)
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. (Ps. 37:20 KJV)
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found. (Ps. 37:35-36 KJV)
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off. (Ps. 37:38 KJV)
Jesus:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn. 3:16 KJV)
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Matt. 7:13 KJV)
Paul:
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Phil. 3:18-19 KJV)
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thess. 1:9 KJV)
Butch5
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Well, if you watch the video, at 1:43 he says, talking about the lake of Fire, 'where the beast and the false prophet', and then he pauses before saying they are still there. My guess is that he knows that the Greek text ends there. It says where the beast and the false prophet. It doesn't say are. It could be understood different ways. It could be where they are or where they were cast. If they were cast there that doesn't necessitate that they are still there. He's simply saying that based on what he already believes. He even says, 'where they were cast'. Then he says 'they are still there'. However, there is nothing in the text that says they are still there. That's just what he already believes.
He said that salvation was all about pinning his sin to Christ. Well, if he believes that the punishment for sin is eternal torment, how did Christ pay for his sin? Jesus didn't suffer eternal torment. God and Paul tell us that death is the result of sin, not eternal torment. If man's sin was pinned to Jesus, why do Christians die? The wages of sin is death and Christians die. It would seems they suffer the penalty for their sin. Also, if Jesus paid for his sin, why would he need forgiveness? If a debt is paid, it's not forgiven, it's paid. One either pays a debt or the debt is forgiven, that's how a debt is resolved. All through the Bible we're told that God forgives sins. Where in Scripture are we told that God requires a payment for sins?
Admon Mikha'el
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Even the bodies of Christians die...They are made of the Earth...That's can't go to heaven anyway....Look at it this way...Within a short time, my body will die. I will not die though. I will go to be with Jesus and live on forever....So when it comes down to it...I don't care that this body will die. I look forward to a new body that will never get sick, never hurt, never anything bad. So why do you have a problem with it? When you die, it will be only your body that dies.
Listen! The Word is Spirit...You will NEVER understand the Word with the intellect...You MUST study the Word in spirit. Can you do that? Or Will you? You are not studying by spirit now....Your posts are evidence of that No offense meant.
Butch5
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Those passages didn't say the body will be destroyed. They said the wicked will be destroyed. You should care about your body as it's the only one you'll have. When Jesus was resurrected, it was in the same body that went into the grave. The Greek word translated resurrect means to stand again. If one gets a different body that's not resurrection, its reincarnation. The Bible teaches resurrection, not reincarnation.
Admon Mikha'el
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This body is the first of three that I will have....Flesh, then, when I die I'll have a spirit body, lastly, at the rapture, when the bride is caught up, it will be the type of body that the angels have..What Jesus called 'a glorified ' body.... Its all in the Word.. The flesh body that we all wear will return to the Earth when we leave it. We call that dying. ok. But the real death is being permanently separated from God who IS life....If you take away life what do you have? Death....The spirit is still active, but separated from life....Hence the second death. Destroyed, separated from life. You seem to be looking at the right verses, but through the wrong eyes.
Butch5
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There's nothing in the Bible that states people will have three bodies. The Scriptures state plainly that the Father alone has immortality and that man is mortal. And, nowhere in Scripture is separation from God called death
Admon Mikha'el
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Study the Word in spirit!!! Out of the spirit, simple logic say that if you don't have life you must have death. God is life, the unsaved are permanently separated from life...What do they have? Butch....I KNOW that you are not stupid, you're very smart, but you seem to be locked into the wrong thinking pattern. You are a spirit....think like one.
Butch5
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I have studied the word spirit. I had to to understand what a man is. The Greek and Hebrews words literally means wind and by extension breath. When you see the English word spirit it is a figure of speech. This word is one of the reasons there is so much confusion among Christians about this subject. So, if I am a wind, what does that mean? The Bible says I am dust, not wind. The Bible says God is wind.
One problem that we have is that our translators have used this word spirit to translate, neshamah, ruach, and pneuma. These words all mean wind. They are sometimes used as a figure of speech to describe angels and demons. What happens is that people assume that because the English word spirit usually denotes a disembodied consciousness, these Greek and Hebrew words must mean a disembodied consciousness. What they've done is take a figure of speech and imported that idea as the literal definition of these words. However, these words have no such meaning. In the Bible angels and demons are called winds, which is translated spirits. However, this is a figure of speech. They are called winds because they have similar traits. In John Jesus said the wind blows where it will, you don't know where it comes from nor where it goes. but, you can see the effects of it. Well, it's the same with angels and demons. They come and go as they will and you don't know where they come from or where they are going. However, when they interact with the physical world you can see their effects.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (Jn. 3:8 KJV)
In this passage the words wind and Spirit are both the same Greek word, pneuma. Why do you suppose the translators used two different words for the same Greek word in this sentence? Could it be translator bias? Did they translate it based on what they already believe? Why not translate it wind in both cases and let the reader decide if it's a figure of speech or not?
Dave M
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now why would the dead need to be judged for what they did if they were going to be no more?
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
