Anihilationism

[Dave M]

That is definitely the fervent HOPE of those who have no FAITH in Jesus for their salvation.

thanks for the link, I found this below to be very informative for this thread

5. Eternal Is Not Age Long

Though the Greek word aion, translated eternal can mean age-long, there is nothing in the context of the passages that speak of the destruction of the wicked that suggests age-long. To the contrary, the natural way of understand the term would be everlasting. This is the usual sense of the term. The Bible says the believer will have everlasting life.

This is the bread which came down from heaven - not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever (John 6:58).

So that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 5:21).

This same word, eternal, that describes the state of the righteous also describes the state of the wicked. This speaks of the time of their punishment, not the quality of punishment.

 

[PloughBoy]

I tell you what, I am pass that. debating whether not what is dead and what not is dead. Keep playing with it. I got my eyes on eternal life! It seems to me, someone is debating if I keep on sinning, I will just be annihilated and end of story. It will be just like i never was created! You must not forget, in the english vocabulary there is a word called: "Oops"! And it will not help you, at the gate! and ignorance will not be a excuse! Especially if you have a Ph.D or Miss Know it all! " That Dog ain't going to Hunt" you dealing with "The Father" now! He is not a Human HE is "GOD"! He does not even think like us! I don't think HE even have a "mind" for HE is, way beyond a mind, He creates minds! you see the word "Lake of Fire" maybe is the best way He can describe in human words the Tormented place by using "Anthropormorphic" words!

A lot of People no not understand; Our GOD is "A Consuming FIRE" it is "Torment" just to stand before HIM! Now Imagine if He just place you within HIM and Not consume you Like "The Burning Bush" before Moses for eternity and you feel The Heat!
Now use that finite mind to Look at a "Incomprehensible GOD" and His ways are pass finding out! And there is nothing Impossible for Him to do and He is nothing Like you! we are just a piece of clay in his hands. He is not a human being. Think.

 

[Sue D.]

It sounds like you're saying that 'Our God is a consuming fire' and that it would be 'torment' to just stand before Him. And that apparently you believe that He will be putting non-believers Within Himself -- they will not be consumed -- but they will feel the Heat of God. for eternity. And you're comparing That with the burning bush that He was in before Moses.

Am I understanding you correctly? Or are you suggesting that life in the lake of fire and brimstone will be Like the burning bush -- that a non believer will be like the burning bush -- in fire continually, forever. In total darkness because their existence will be totally away from God. That there will never be any relief From the fire and brimstone all around in total darkness. And brimstone smells like rotten eggs.

And THAT environment is not meant for people -- Only for satan, the beast and the false prophet. Now Maybe the last two Are people. But that's the environment God will have ready For those three. God has provided the one and only way for the rest of us to Not end up there. We CAN be with God in the New Jerusalem when it is ready. And in the meantime -- absent from the body equals presence with Jesus Christ.

 

[PloughBoy]

It sounds like you're saying that 'Our God is a consuming fire' and that it would be 'torment' to just stand before Him. And that apparently you believe that He will be putting non-believers Within Himself -- they will not be consumed -- but they will feel the Heat of God. for eternity. And you're comparing That with the burning bush that He was in before Moses.

Am I understanding you correctly? Or are you suggesting that life in the lake of fire and brimstone will be Like the burning bush -- that a non believer will be like the burning bush -- in fire continually, forever. In total darkness because their existence will be totally away from God. That there will never be any relief From the fire and brimstone all around in total darkness. And brimstone smells like rotten eggs.

And THAT environment is not meant for people -- Only for satan, the beast and the false prophet. Now Maybe the last two Are people. But that's the environment God will have ready For those three. God has provided the one and only way for the rest of us to Not end up there. We CAN be with God in the New Jerusalem when it is ready. And in the meantime -- absent from the body equals presence with Jesus Christ.

Not really, it is not what I am saying, but what GOD, has said. "He is A Consuming Fire" and No one or thing can stand before His "Holiness" and HE is The One that determines what is consume in Heat and whether One can feel the Heat. and one not. Shadrach Meshach or Abednego, or The guards that threw them in the Furnace. Or whether not you need a "glorified body" to approach HIM. For we live in our bodies and maybe our souls lives on forever and ever in GOD. and Cannot be consume "Absent from the Body present with The LORD" For i am saying "There is Nothing That GOD cannot do! You can be in HIM in total "LIGHT" and Another Creature could be in HIM at the same Time and The same place and be in "Total DARKNESS". is there anything that is Impossible with GOD? Yes there is, He Cannot lie nor can HE deny Himself. after that there is nothing He cannot do. Now that is The God I serve.



And David said: (Psalms 139).
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
11If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

You cannot escape the presence of The Almighty GOD, for He is everywhere, He dwells even in The Lake Of Fire that burns like The Blue light of Brimstone for He is the one that gives it its color. He is in the darkness of night , for even darkness shines bright. And when we walked down through the "Valley of The Shadows of Death thou art with me!

(Exodus 19).
16On the third day, when morning came, there was thunder and lightning. A thick cloud was upon the mountain, and a very loud blast of the ram’s horn went out, so that all the people in the camp trembled. 17Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.

18Mount Sinai was completely enveloped in smoke, because the LORD had descended on it in fire. And the smoke rose like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently. 19And as the sound of the ram’s horn grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him in the thunder.

20The LORD descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the summit. So Moses went up, 21and the LORD said to him, “Go down and warn the people not to break through to see the LORD, lest many of them perish. 22Even the priests who approach the LORD must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them.”

The Same GOD that was yesterday is The Same GOD today! HE never changes! for He is "Immutable"

I hope that was a better explanation to dissolve the thoughts of annihilation. And strengthens the place of eternal torture damnation.
For we know that many words are spoken in "Anthropormorphic words"' We see lake of fire but it is a place far greater than that, that cannot be seen with the naked EYE, it is a place for souls a terrible place that you cannot imagine. Your brain, your heart, your naked eyes , will not be there but you will. and you will suffer your thoughs, your deeds your words and everything you have done will torture you, burning in you, raging a lake of fire and Brimstone forever and ever your worms will die not [your thoughts swinging like worms] if only you had listen on countless of times, all the warnings, there will be no 'Alzheimer's disease" there, You have no brain, but a "soul" so there is nothing forgotten, design by GOD.

I believe the damnation is real, and I try so hard to not sweet talk the danger that is ahead even at the door! I love the people i know. But there are only afew that sounds the alarm, and it makes my job hard. and makes me look like a FOOL, in WARNING them of That what is to come! And these other makes God sound like a nice person! and there is plenty of time, no rush, nothing to get excited about. He is NOT Nice! For HE IS GOD The Almighty" and He is nothing like us! And He will destroy. and send millions and millions to eternal damnation. And His angry is waxing HOT! yes it is.
And only a Few is sounding the alarm, for they see Not the urgency of The nearness of The Times! And they are walking The Race when they should be running! There are so many that are "LUKE WARM" it is so Hard to find those or run across those who are on FIRE and sounding The ALARM! But there are herds of them That will put Water on your FIRE to Put it OUT in the name OF JESUS! And they are not "Satisfied" until there is not smothering wick.

But they claim they are like Jesus, But the Bible says:
3A bruised reed He will not break
and a smoldering wick He will not extinguish;

Come LORD Jesus and come quickly.
Then maybe, just maybe, Our Love ones will get saved, by The words of Those who are left and who have been set on FIRE for The Truth! There was a Number that no man could number, for they came out of The Great Tribulation"! For I do believe there will be No "Luke Warm" proclaimers there "Carrying The Mail"!

(Isaiah 13)
6Wail, for the day of the LORD is near!
It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

7Therefore all hands will fall limp,
And every man’s heart will melt.

8And they will be terrified,
Pains and anguish will take hold of them;
They will writhe like a woman in labor,
They will look at one another in astonishment,
Their faces aflame.

9Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
Cruel, with fury and burning anger,
To make the land a desolation;
And He will exterminate its sinners from it.


This day will surely come to pass, it is a promise form GOD!

Have you warn them! in the spirit of niceness or Urgency?
Have you warn them! in the spirit of gentleness or In The Spirit of POWER?

I say: in The Spirit of gentleness and Power. with a sense of Urgency! for our days are short, it is nearer than we might think.

There are to many warnings. that the day is at hand.

 

[complete]

Actually even the unbelievers will be resurrected. ( John 5:29; Acts 24:15; ) it's where you spend eternity after the resurrection that is the issue.

Hi @B_A_C,

I did stipulate resurrection LIFE. For the unbeliever there is no eternity, only a fearful expectation of judgement and the second death.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

Go back to the Revelation 20 passage talking about Death and Hades -- those people were Also judged according to their works -- and then They were caste into the lake of fire and brimstone.

You're suggesting that the unbeliever is simply going to be teased about judgement and the second death. But that it won't Really happen? Then what about the rich man and Lazarus. He found himself in Hades and wanting to warn his brothers about their coming fate After they die. And Hades people Will be caste into the lake of fire and brimstone. That is going to be as eternal as the New Jerusalem.

 

[Hekuran]

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20.

This passage does not talk of everlasting torment for people whose names are not in the Book of life.

The lake of fire is the second death - raised from the dead, judged, then sent to destruction.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- satan, the beast and the false prophet are Also thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone -- vs 10 "forever and ever". The first death is when a person's physical body dies but the soul lives on forever. The soul of the non-believer is in Hades until the judgement. So doesn't it follow that the 2nd death is the Final placement - the body is taken out of the 'holding tank' and put into the Final destination. Lake of fire and brimstone. Born again believers will be spending 'our' eternity in heaven -- non born again in the lake of fire.

The thing is -- Our experience with fire is that it eventually dies out. A person usually dies of smoke inhalation long before their body is burning. And a fire department usually finds a body after the fire is put out. The physical body is no longer aware of anything.

But there will be No fire department to put out the fire and brimstone.

Our phsyche can't comprehend what that would be like. But God's Word Does tell us and warns us. Do Not put ourselves in that setting forever. And Satan wants all the company he can get. He knows that He will be there Forever. But We want to think it won't be so bad for just a Little while. Satan knows otherwise. If it's really only Temporary for human beings , that people won't be there all that long and then will become null and void , then why all the attempts from satan to lie to us. The Bigger deception would be that it won't last forever but the Truth being that people Will be in torment Forever. Then people really will have something to regret Forever -- all the times that they heard the way to Stay Out and they laughed at it. All their friends probably Will be there with them, but certainly not partying. They will Also be in darkness suffering for ever and ever.

 

[complete]

Go back to the Revelation 20 passage talking about Death and Hades -- those people were Also judged according to their works -- and then They were caste into the lake of fire and brimstone.

You're suggesting that the unbeliever is simply going to be teased about judgement and the second death. But that it won't Really happen? Then what about the rich man and Lazarus. He found himself in Hades and wanting to warn his brothers about their coming fate After they die. And Hades people Will be caste into the lake of fire and brimstone. That is going to be as eternal as the New Jerusalem.

Hello @Sue D.

Are you talking to me? Your post follows mine, but as you have not addressed your response to anyone specifically it is hard to know..

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[B-A-C]

Matthew 25:46
(AMPC) Then they will go away into eternal punishment, but those who are just and upright and in right standing with God into eternal life. [Dan_12:2]
(AMPC+) Then they will go away into eternal punishment, but those who are just and upright and in right standing with God into eternal life. [Dan_12:2]
(ASV) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
(CSB) “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(ESV) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(GNB) These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(GW) "These people will go away into eternal punishment, but those with God's approval will go into eternal life."
(HCSB) "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(ISV) These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
(KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(KJVA) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(MKJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
(MSG) "Then those 'goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the 'sheep' to their eternal reward."
(NAS77) "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(NASB) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(NIrV) "Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life."
(NIV) "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(NLT) “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

Everyone of these versions says the punishment will will eternal or everlasting.

There are some verses that simply say the fire is eternal.

Matt 18:8; "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matt 25:41; "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

There are verses that speak of specific ages or time periods.

Luke 18:30; who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

But I notice while we might not receive eternal life until "the age to come".. it is still in fact .. "eternal" life.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

In this passage the "eternal bonds" could be taken a couple of ways, the bonds are eternal, even when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, the bonds remain. The bonds are "eternal" in the sense
they last until the great judgment day, but then it's possible they are taken off before being thrown into the fire. Even if the latter is the case, it will still be thousands of years, they are in bondage.

There is a lot of debate over who/what the harlot is... but no matter who she is...

Rev 19:2; BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
Rev 19:3; And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER."

Does the fact that her smoke rises up forever mean that people in her will burn forever? Hard to say. We can't say yes from this passage, but we can't say no either.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

In this verse, it seems the devil and the false prophet (beast) will be tormented day and night forever and ever. There really is no other way to interpret this.

... to be continued .

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 20:11; Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now here people out of Hades, and the sea, people who have are already dead, some of them have been dead for presumably thousands of years.
So they certainly haven't been "annihilated", at least not yet, they are to be judged, then some will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (which is the "second" death).

Then we have those who receive the mark of the beast and worship him.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

So we have the smoke of their torment going up forever, but it also specifically says, "they have no rest day and night". This presumably mean eternal torment. I see no other
way to interpret this.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man wasn't "annihilated". He was in agony, presumably he would be one of those awaiting the judgment when hades gives up the dead in it.

Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

1 Samuel 28:15
(AMPC) And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me to bring me up? Saul answered, I am bitterly distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do.
(ASV) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(CSB) “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Samuel asked Saul. “I’m in serious trouble,” replied Saul. “The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He doesn’t answer me anymore, either through the prophets or in dreams. So I’ve called on you to tell me what I should do.”
(ESV) Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”
(GNB) Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me? Why did you make me come back?" Saul answered, "I am in great trouble! The Philistines are at war with me, and God has abandoned me. He doesn't answer me any more, either by prophets or by dreams. And so I have called you, for you to tell me what I must do."
(GW) Samuel asked Saul, "Why did you disturb me by conjuring me up?" Saul answered, "I'm in serious trouble. The Philistines are at war with me, and God has turned against me and doesn't answer me anymore-either by the prophets or in dreams. So I've called on you to tell me what to do."
(HCSB) "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Samuel asked Saul. "I'm in serious trouble," replied Saul. "The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He doesn't answer me anymore, either through the prophets or in dreams. So I've called on you to tell me what I should do."
(ISV) Samuel told Saul, "Why did you disturb me by bringing me up?" Saul said, "I'm in great distress. The Philistines are waging war against me. God has departed from me and won't answer me anymore, either by messages written by the hand of the prophets or by dreams. So I've summoned you to tell me what I should do."
(KJV) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(KJVA) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(MKJV) And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do.
(MSG) Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by calling me up?" "Because I'm in deep trouble," said Saul. "The Philistines are making war against me and God has deserted me—he doesn't answer me any more, either by prophet or by dream. And so I'm calling on you to tell me what to do."
(NAS77) Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and answers me no more, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do."
(NASB) Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do.
(NIrV) Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you troubled me by bringing me up from the dead?" "I'm having big problems," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me. God has turned away from me. He doesn't answer me anymore. He doesn't speak to me through prophets or dreams. So I've called on you to tell me what to do."
(NIV) Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" "I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."
(NLT) “Why have you disturbed me by calling me back?” Samuel asked Saul. “Because I am in deep trouble,” Saul replied. “The Philistines are at war with me, and God has left me and won’t reply by prophets or dreams. So I have called for you to tell me what to do.”

Then we have in the story of Saul and the witch (seer) of Endor, that they brought Samuel back to life from the grave. Samuel says why have you disturbed me? Why have you awoken me?
Again he wasn't annihilated, he was asleep waiting for the day of judgment.

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Php 4:20; Now to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

1Pet 5:11; To Him be dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:13; And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."

There are dozens of verses about God and His kingdom being forever and ever.
There are over 40 verses in the New Testament that speak of "eternal" life.

John 4:14; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
John 4:36; "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
John 5:24; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:39; "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 6:27; "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 6:54; "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The same word interpreted as eternal tormented, and no rest forever, is the exact same word used for eternal life, and God is forever.
So if the torment is not forever, then neither is God and His kingdom forever. If this is the case, then "eternal life" isn't truly eternal.

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luke 20:36; for they cannot even die anymore, for they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:37; But as for the fact that the dead are raised, even Moses revealed this in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luke 20:38; Now He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to Him.”

In Luke 20, Jesus says those who are worthy of resurrection are like the angels. "they cannot even die anymore" . So the angels are unable to ever die.

Jude 1:6 ;And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, these He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Now we could take Jude 1:7; and simply say well the fire is eternal, but that doesn't mean their punishment will be. Yet in Luke 20:36; Jesus says angels can never die, so if this is the case, the punishment is indeed forever.

Also in Luke 20 above, God tells Moses He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who all died hundreds of years before Moses's time. How could He be their God if they were annihilated and don't exist anymore?
If God is the God of the living, then they must still be alive in some form.

 

[PloughBoy]

The Fire will never go out, for it is eternal, For there is no end, and the sinner and all those who are cast into The Lake of Fire will die a eternal death, they will continue to die a eternal death, dying and dying and dying and dying for all eternity, their death will never end. There is no flesh, no brain, no heart, but your memories and pain will remain, your memories will be your "Torture"! and your "SOUL" will have no rest, but continue to die the eternal death for all eternity. It is a very slow death, no water, no nurse, no drugs, no visitors, no room mates, no voices, only the thoughs of your "Conscious Soul," For this will be the 2nd death! The 1st death you went to sleep and woke up in "HADES" and saw a great GULF and those who had witness to you on the other side. For now they know, that their Final Judgment had not come yet, but they are in a "holding cell" waiting their "Final Destination"! The Lake of The Eternal FIRE, that burns forever. For this thought is place on top of the "Torment" that they are being engage in already and they cannot die. "If only they could die and be no more, for it would be "Paradise" such peace, such joy to feel no pain and to never have existed forever more.

Revelation 20:6,14
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years…

American Standard Version
But for the Cowardly and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part'shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

The Second DEATH is THE "Lake that Burneth with Fire and Brimstone" it is your "Coffin"! It is not a consuming Fire but a Eternal Fire. In it you will not die, but die a Eternal Death. Your Death in dying will never end.

Now think about that! not only do the devil want to take you there as well. A lot of people want to take you there too! Because they know they are going to Hell! And most of those People are your Friends! They want to place you into a position where GOD will blind your eyes and give you a "Reprobate Mind" so that If the Truth would Slap you in the face , you still would not recognize it.

You can believe what i am saying, or you may cast my words into the trash can of your mind.

Your choice, and if you think, you have The "Freedom of The Will". you choose. "Eternal Life or Eternal Death"! and only "A few find it" "Eternal Life" for the "odds" are against you already.

(Luke 14)NASB.
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25“Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ 28“There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out. 29“And they will come from east and west, and from north and south, and will recline at the tablein the kingdom of God. 30“And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.” [it does not make any difference if you are "Last or First"} and long as you make it in the GATE] Because when He shuts that Door , game over! Don't wait around until you get 80 and then straignteh up and try to get "Holy"! Your steps are too short When that door starts to close, you cannot run fast enough! 'i am aiming for the front seat and a window view' and my ticket in my hand, ""STAMP", by The Porter' Destination "GLORYLAND" Sealed"! and patting my feet.

For many think they have made it in, and have stop running the race. by not "Making sure of Their own Salvation" And "worldy Love" directed to worldly people is not a sign of your salvation. YOU have to prove to your ownself that you are "SAVED" and Not to me! "Work out your own Salvation" Because when you take your last breath you are not going to be thinking about me! No Second Chances.

It will be a terrible thing for the "sinners" to die and wake up.

(Luke 16) NASB.
22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

Note: "agony in this flame" and not burning up in this flame.

 

[Hekuran]

Looks like everybody is talking past each other, so this is the point I duck out of this thread.

 

[Sue D.]

@complete -- yes, way back at post #49 , I was talking to you. Sorry about the confusion. But Post #50 explains it very well, also.

Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow.

 

[Butch5]

thanks for the link, I found this below to be very informative for this thread

5. Eternal Is Not Age Long

Though the Greek word aion, translated eternal can mean age-long, there is nothing in the context of the passages that speak of the destruction of the wicked that suggests age-long. To the contrary, the natural way of understand the term would be everlasting. This is the usual sense of the term. The Bible says the believer will have everlasting life.





This same word, eternal, that describes the state of the righteous also describes the state of the wicked. This speaks of the time of their punishment, not the quality of punishment.

His argument is arbitrary. There nothing in the context that suggests it's eternal. One must come to the text assuming that. He's uses his theology to define the word. That's backwards

 

[PloughBoy]

Well I know one thing, There is nothing earthly about it or worldly, or a "finite mind" can perceive! On your best day! those words are "Anthropormorphic" words. Everybody's description cannot describe eternity! Like we know what we are talking about. if you haven't been there, in the unseen place! i am quite sure we would not know what to call it if we saw it! LOL! Now tell me this is not the truth. We don't know what eternity is, or what GOD even look like!

now if you know, tell us what eternity looks like and GOD the FATHER, what color is His Hair and does HE has teeth, and if He do, what does HE use them for?

 

[Butch5]

Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luke 20:36; for they cannot even die anymore, for they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:37; But as for the fact that the dead are raised, even Moses revealed this in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luke 20:38; Now He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to Him.”

In Luke 20, Jesus says those who are worthy of resurrection are like the angels. "they cannot even die anymore" . So the angels are unable to ever die.

Jude 1:6 ;And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, these He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Now we could take Jude 1:7; and simply say well the fire is eternal, but that doesn't mean their punishment will be. Yet in Luke 20:36; Jesus says angels can never die, so if this is the case, the punishment is indeed forever.

Also in Luke 20 above, God tells Moses He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who all died hundreds of years before Moses's time. How could He be their God if they were annihilated and don't exist anymore?
If God is the God of the living, then they must still be alive in some form.

The resurrection. Jesus states that. He's talking about the resurrection. Notice in verse 36 that you posted above, Jesus says, they can't die anymore, being sons of the resurrection. He's not saying they are alive right now, He's talking about the Resurrection. The Greek text doesn't indicate that they are alive right now. "The Living" is a class of people. Jesus uses similar language of the dead.

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matt. 8:21-22 KJV)

Surely Jesus isn't talking about dead people burying other dead people.

Also, notice that Jesus said those who are worthy to attain "that" age. It's a different one. Lets translate it the other way, those worthy to attain that eternity. Is He referring to that eternity as opposed to this one?

 

[Butch5]

People, why do you let your beliefs drive your translation? Jesus said the aion will end. That means it can't be eternal. Why do so many not believe what He said?