And when You Die Your 1st Stop Ain't Heaven I don't care what you Believe, or What they told You. you are going to the grave

[Hekuran]

You are simply mistaken, and overlooked 1 Thessalonians 4:16, "heaven", which I cited (please go back and look). Jesus, when He returns from the 3rd Heaven (to which He ascended to; Ephesians 4:10; Psalms 24, etc), is actually seen coming far above the earth (a dark cloud that gets bigger and brighter as it approaches the earth), and thus it (1 Thess. 4:16) does not refer to the first heaven, which splits and passes away at His second coming or return (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:14).

Paul mentions the 3rd heaven, 2 Corinthians 12:2, which is where God (the Father) actually dwells (Our Father which art in Heaven ...). He does so, based upon the numeration of Genesis 1, which mentions the 1st (where the fowl fly) and 2nd heavens (where the sun, moon and local stars are (local Sol system)).

Jesus returning from heaven in glory, yes. That's a familiar Bible teaching. In the New Testament, future hope is always directed to resurrection, never in to 'going to heaven'.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

I see, scripture (KJB) is, and thus I also, am unwelcome here. Thank you for your time. May the LORD Jesus Christ forgive you, and find mercy of the LORD in the time to come. Please delete my account.

 

[Butch5]

A typological event is literal/natural. See Sodom and Gomorrah. It is witnessed with the eyes.

Is that your argument, that we have to understand it literally because the word means to see with eyes?

 

[complete]

Is that your argument, that we have to understand it literally because the word means to see with eyes?

Hello @Butch5,

Let me break-in here, for I am trying to follow the reasoning taking place here.

In regard to the subject in hand, in which the writer of the OP states that the destination of all that die, both believer and unbeliever alike, is the grave. The only difference being, that the believer has the promise of God concerning resurrection to life in Christ Jesus their Lord, on that day of God's choosing: and until that day, they are reckoned by God to be 'asleep in Christ'. I believe this to be true.

a) Do you believe that the Old Testament contains 'types' of Christ that are fulfilled in His person and His work?
b) What O.T.'type' is being referred to here, to substantiate the belief that the soul lives on after death?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[PloughBoy]

Some people will insists to you to follow them in a path, that leads to errors no matter what the Bible says, they will not back down, even after they have recognize the Truth. Leave them along, who insists of such wickedness. It is nothing but "force Poison" that is trying to be force down your throats. For these people "Fear Not GOD"! for if they Knew HIM, they would Fear HIM.

 

[Butch5]

Hello @Butch5,

Let me break-in here, for I am trying to follow the reasoning taking place here.

In regard to the subject in hand, in which the writer of the OP states that the destination of all that die, both believer and unbeliever alike, is the grave. The only difference being, that the believer has the promise of God concerning resurrection to life in Christ Jesus their Lord, on that day of God's choosing: and until that day, they are reckoned by God to be 'asleep in Christ'. I believe this to be true.

a) Do you believe that the Old Testament contains 'types' of Christ that are fulfilled in His person and His work?
b) What O.T.'type' is being referred to here, to substantiate the belief that the soul lives on after death?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,

Yeah I believe there are types in the OT.
I'm not sure what type Matthew is referring to here.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Hello @Butch5,

Let me break-in here, for I am trying to follow the reasoning taking place here.

In regard to the subject in hand, in which the writer of the OP states that the destination of all that die, both believer and unbeliever alike, is the grave. The only difference being, that the believer has the promise of God concerning resurrection to life in Christ Jesus their Lord, on that day of God's choosing: and until that day, they are reckoned by God to be 'asleep in Christ'. I believe this to be true.

a) Do you believe that the Old Testament contains 'types' of Christ that are fulfilled in His person and His work?
b) What O.T.'type' is being referred to here, to substantiate the belief that the soul lives on after death?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

To be cautious, one must look at life after death more closely.

We all will be in the Spirit World.

As a Believer, God tells us we will have a body just like Jesus. Also, I think the Bible tells us many things about life after death.

For sure what ever happens, it will be unlike anything we understand. In the Spirit World, the is no up and down as we understand it, no time constraints that we understand.

If you believe, God says He is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. The truth is,, He also says that we will inherit all of Jesus's inheritance but that is in God's world.

I believe what ever we think we know, we must ultimately associate it with God's World, the Spirit World!

 

[complete]

To be cautious, one must look at life after death more closely.

We all will be in the Spirit World.

As a Believer, God tells us we will have a body just like Jesus. Also, I think the Bible tells us many things about life after death.

For sure what ever happens, it will be unlike anything we understand. In the Spirit World, the is no up and down as we understand it, no time constraints that we understand.

If you believe, God says He is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. The truth is,, He also says that we will inherit all of Jesus's inheritance but that is in God's world.

I believe what ever we think we know, we must ultimately associate it with God's World, the Spirit World!

Hello @Born Again 2004,

Thank you for your response.

Yes, Praise God! We will have a 'spiritual' body like that of our Lord's risen body. Our mortal bodies will be exchanged for that which is immortal (1 Corinthians 15:53-54). We need also be in no doubt as to when this will take place. It will take place at the resurrection from the dead. Our spiritual bodies, like His own, will consist of flesh and bone. The Lord told His disciples that He was NOT a spirit. He asked them to touch Him and see that He was indeed flesh and bone, and could eat and drink as they did in the flesh, yet it was a spiritual body, capable of appearing and disappearing at will. (Luke 24:39-43)

There can be no life after death until the resurrection power of God is applied, and we are told very clearly when that will be. Not at death, but on the day of Resurrection. Those who have died in Christ will be raised to life everlasting as God has promised.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Br. Bear]

@Matthew ten Verseight

Greetings,

I see, scripture (KJB) is, and thus I also, am unwelcome here. Thank you for your time. May the LORD Jesus Christ forgive you, and find mercy of the LORD in the time to come. Please delete my account.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by KJB?

As far as being welcome here, you are, as is everyone.... but there are a few Do's and Don'ts regarding material posted that in any way promotes denominations of the member, or of any kind. however, having said that, the Moderating Team does not always catch them, so to speak, so feel free to help us if there are others you see who push their agenda too much.

Basically, in a nutshell, no proselytizing for denominations. Quite simple.
We have had members come and go over the years some who have been members of any number of different denominations but they have not used TalkJesus to push their denominational barrow, nor to prove their point. Some have, though and have had their posts deleted.

It may be helpful to read this:

Seventh Day Adventism

What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach? Affirmations The Bible is inspired and the word of God. Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons. Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father. The Holy Spirit is a person. Jesus' sacrifice was...

www.talkjesus.com

Bless you ....><>

 

[Born Again 2004]

Hello @Born Again 2004,

Thank you for your response.

Yes, Praise God! We will have a 'spiritual' body like that of our Lord's risen body. Our mortal bodies will be exchanged for that which is immortal (1 Corinthians 15:53-54). We need also be in no doubt as to when this will take place. It will take place at the resurrection from the dead. Our spiritual bodies, like His own, will consist of flesh and bone. The Lord told His disciples that He was NOT a spirit. He asked them to touch Him and see that He was indeed flesh and bone, and could eat and drink as they did in the flesh, yet it was a spiritual body, capable of appearing and disappearing at will. (Luke 24:39-43)

There can be no life after death until the resurrection power of God is applied, and we are told very clearly when that will be. Not at death, but on the day of Resurrection. Those who have died in Christ will be raised to life everlasting as God has promised.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

You are a real " Bible Thumper ", as well as we all should be!

I don't disagree with your reasoning .
Yes, we will have a body just like Jesus.
we too will walk through closed doors, maybe even fly around the rings of Saturn.

So your point, I think, is well taken!

My point is that ALL of this will happen in a "Blink Of An Eye ".
Not exactly directly Biblical but I believe it is in there nevertheless.

When we die, as Believers, all in the Bible will come true but, we are in God's world now; time is not as we know it now, all will happen instantly!

The "Alpha and the Omega" !

 

[complete]

You are a real " Bible Thumper ", as well as we all should be!

I don't disagree with your reasoning .
Yes, we will have a body just like Jesus.
we too will walk through closed doors, maybe even fly around the rings of Saturn.

So your point, I think, is well taken!

My point is that ALL of this will happen in a "Blink Of An Eye ".
Not exactly directly Biblical but I believe it is in there nevertheless.

When we die, as Believers, all in the Bible will come true but, we are in God's world now; time is not as we know it now, all will happen instantly!

The "Alpha and the Omega" !

Hello @Born Again 2004,

Yes, I am rather like a terrier after a rabbit where the Word of God is concerned, I can't give up the chase.

Yes, the resurrection will happen in the twinkling of an eye, as it says in (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). There will those who will be changed, who have been reckoned until that moment to have been 'asleep' (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and some who will never see death, but will be changed from mortality to immortality. Yes?

I am glad we understand each other.

- Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is both Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 1:8)
- Also both the Author and Finisher of our faith. (Hebrews 12:2) (Which I find a great comfort).

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Born Again 2004]

Hello @Born Again 2004,

Yes, I am rather like a terrier after a rabbit where the Word of God is concerned, I can't give up the chase.

Yes, the resurrection will happen in the twinkling of an eye, as it says in (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). There will those who will be changed, who have been reckoned until that moment to have been 'asleep' (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and some who will never see death, but will be changed from mortality to immortality. Yes?

I am glad we understand each other.

- Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is both Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 1:8)
- Also both the Author and Finisher of our faith. (Hebrews 12:2) (Which I find a great comfort).

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

If only many understood.
GOD says everything Jesus has, we will have.
He is the Alpha and the Omega...I don't fully comprehend how but so shall we be!

 

[complete]

If only many understood.
GOD says everything Jesus has, we will have.
He is the Alpha and the Omega...I don't fully comprehend how but so shall we be!

Hi @Born Again 2004,

Forgive me, I don't really understand. The Lord Jesus has many titles ascribed to Him, such as those you have mentioned, and which I added, but they are His and His alone, aren't they? Those titles can never be ours. Yes?

 

[Butch5]

I can tell you why. It is your own doing, and that would take some time to explain, but instead a single question, What "heaven" are these (following) referring to (1, 2 or 3; please choose for each text below) [I am not asking any other question in this reply, just this question]?

In Job 1 & 2, the locational meeting of the "sons of God" (1, 2 or 3).

Psalms 24, the location of the "everlasting doors" (1, 2 or 3).

Psa_11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Psa_89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?

Psa_139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Mat_5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Mat_6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mat_23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Luk_6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Luk_10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Luk_15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk_18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

2Co_5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Php_3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Col_1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Heb_10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Rev_5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Can you explain what you mean by 1st, 2nd, 3rd, heavens? I've notice that in all of these passages you posted, none say that people go to Heaven.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Hi @Born Again 2004,

Forgive me, I don't really understand. The Lord Jesus has many titles ascribed to Him, such as those you have mentioned, and which I added, but they are His and His alone, aren't they? Those titles can never be ours. Yes?

Look..who understands any of it? All we can do is listen to trusted others or make our own conclusions.

There are many that, I'm sure will disagree with me, but..it is how I feel based on what I read in the Bible.

Titles, no!
He is the Great I am!
Yes all those are His alone!

But I am not taking about being His equal, I am referring to what God has said:
1. We will have a resurrected body just like His.
2. We will "SHARE " in All His inheritance.

What all does that mean?
1.Ressurected body like His!!.
What does that mean?
Well, the Bible talks about Jesus, after His resurrection ,visiting 11 Disciples one time and 12 the next. These verses are so rich in information:
A. Each time the Disciples were in the upper room, with the door bolted or locked...I'm sure for fear of the Romans; after all they just witnessed what had happened to Jesus.
Also, you got to imagine that was some kind of massive door.....not like our flimsy kind of today.

Then, what happened?

Jesus just appeared before them ....how?
I haven't clue, He just walked through the door I guess .
What a minute...He was in His ressurected body and God said we have one just like His...oops, how is that true? Well, I guess if God says it, it is true.
Not only that but, Jesus told the Disciples He's was not a Spirit...to touch Him...now, this really getting interesting.

We don't talk enough about what God has in store for Believers!

2. Share in all His inheritance...let your mind expand a bit..just think: There is no impossibilities for Jesus; there will be none for us.

He will be our God and we will worship Him in" Spirit and Truth " !

 

[Born Again 2004]

Jesus returning from heaven in glory, yes. That's a familiar Bible teaching. In the New Testament, future hope is always directed to resurrection, never in to 'going to heaven'.

We're is one Ressurected to?

 

[B-A-C]

We're is one Ressurected to?

The millennial reign is on Earth. After that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven.

 

[Born Again 2004]

The millennial reign is on Earth. After that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven.

O.K....so your saying we may be ressurected to one of those places?

 

[Hekuran]

We're is one Ressurected to?

We rise as creation is released from its bondage to decay. See Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 15.

Its the restoration of God's original intention for humans to reign over the earth in perfect harmony with creation and the creator.

The last section of Isaiah 65 is a poetic imagining of it, and so of course the closing chapters of Revelation

 

[Br. Bear]

We rise as creation is released from its bondage to decay. See Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 15.

Its the restoration of God's original intention for humans to reign over the earth in perfect harmony with creation and the creator.

The last section of Isaiah 65 is a poetic imagining of it, and so of course the closing chapters of Revelation

a bit like a tree shedding it's bark?

or a seed bursting out from it's husk


Bless you ....><>