"and the Word was God"

[saginon]

False, He was not "made" at all. He always existed.

What do you think, "the firstborn of all creation" means?

 

[B-A-C]

As believers we are filled with the fulness of God. That doesn't make us God.

Can you show me a verse that says we are filled with "the fulness" of God?

 

[B-A-C]

What do you think, "the firstborn of all creation" means?

Exactly what it says. Creation didn't always exist. But God did. He wasn't created. Heaven is a spiritual place. You can't see it.
But the physical universe, the earth and stars, were all created at some point. Jesus was manifested in the flesh at some point.
But that doesn't mean he didn't exist before creation.

 

[newname]

False, He was not "made" at all. He always existed.

His body was prepared for Him.

 

[saginon]

Can you show me a verse that says we are filled with "the fulness" of God?

You must have missed it.

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

...and the fulness of Christ,
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[saginon]

Exactly what it says. Creation didn't always exist. But God did. He wasn't created. Heaven is a spiritual place. You can't see it.
But the physical universe, the earth and stars, were all created at some point. Jesus was manifested in the flesh at some point.
But that doesn't mean he didn't exist before creation.

I never said God was created, we are talking about Jesus. You do know the definition of firstborn, right?

 

[newname]

Hi All,

Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

34 Bible verses about No Other is God
34 Bible verses about No Other Is God

Me: Does Elohim really mean a “plural oneness” or a “plurality of persons”?

The best explanation, I believe, is from the below link.



Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural?

Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural? - Outreach Judaism

Question: Dear Rabbi Singer, First, let me say that what you are doing is a great service to Jews and the religious community at large. You are setting the record straight – one that has needed correction for almost 2,000 years! Thank you. Yesterday, a Christian business associate made a point...

outreachjudaism.org

The noun, Yahweh is always singular. So, Elohim has to be likewise the singular form (plural intensive) to describe the true God. Elohim is used in plural form to describe the many false pagan Gods but only in singular form (plural intensive) to show majesty.

'elohiym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version
Does Elohim really mean a "plural oneness" or a "plurality of persons"?

Comment: Plural of excellence and not of number refers to the Almighty. Plural in number refers to beings that are not the Almighty as in man and the angels. Although the article above is a JW article, it smacks of the truth.

“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us (singular, plural intensive) make man in our image, after our (singular, plural intensive) likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he (God) them (Adam and Eve).

Interlinear Bible:

Genesis 1:26 God (singular) utter, make man an image likeness

Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Verse 27: God create mankind an image an image God create male a female God create

Me: Go to comment on vs 27, is God both a male and female? No, he is neither. For God is invisible spirit. On the other hand, his visible image, who is the lamb of God is a male. To match “us” and “our” in verse 26 would be to match it with “male and female” in verse 27. That would make God both a male and female. So “us” is a wrong word used in a wrong place. In fact God is singular plural intensive (H430) noun. What does this mean? It means that when the greatest majesty of a thing or person is emphasized, it is used in this form. That is exactly what is happening here. For verse 27 uses the pronoun “he” to describe God. Here, the singular “he” in verse 27 agrees with the singular plural intensive God in verse 26, both describing as a singular being. It is not referring to the pagan trinity as explained in my opening posts. Can you find anywhere in biblical history where a monotheistic God is considered pagan? On the hand, there is an plethora of historic evidence of the pagan origins of the trinity.

To continue with the phrase, “make man in our image”, I feel it should be to “make man in my image” to provide cohesiveness. There is no “us” or “our” in the first part of Genesis 1:26 presented in the interlinear bible. It could have very well been stated as “God said I will make man in my image and likeness”. So, whether the pronouns should be translated as the plurals “us” and “our” or “I” and “my” are predicated on “God” being singular or plural. And all reputable biblical scholars, even those that are Trinitarian admit that “God” here is singular, plural intensive.
Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
That's not one man, but ppl and Adam was made in the image of Jesus.
Stephen saw Jesus on His right hand.

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

 

[newname]

I read that page before and still have as one of my favorites.

Just like my dad who was banned here over a trinitarian debate, I get tired of people calling non-trinitarians false Christ and false prophets, even condemning them.

Most trinitarian's simply quote verses and say that they prove a trinity without going any deeper into the Word. They usually don't use the Greek and Hebrew or other resources and are often proud of their condemning accusations.

The Trinity doctrine developed from a power struggle between Arius and Athanasius. Arius was non-trinitarian, and Athanasius developed Trinitarianism. It became more of a political argument and power struggle than a theological or biblical one. Once Christianity became the state religion of the Roman empire, power within the church became political. Arius and Athanasius had significant followings and they both wanted power. The two groups fought savage battles with each other and were rioting against each other over it. Athanasius was more brutal, more powerful, and more emotional about his beliefs and literally destroyed his opponent Arius and his followers, so Constantine sided with him.

The state religion of Rome was in trouble and Constantine realized that Christianity itself had to be united if it were to be the state religion. The issue of how to formulate a creed about the nature of Jesus became a political dispute, not a religious one. One side had to be chosen as right, and the other side must be silenced. He came down on the side of Athanasius for political reasons and adopted the trinitarian creed for the church, and exiled Arius. And so, Jesus ‘became’ God because of that.

"There are numerous accounts of Athanasius’ followers beating and murdering non-trinitarian Christians in the lead-up to the Council of Nicea, torturing their victims and parading their dead bodies around." (See Richard Hanson, The Search For The Christian Doctrine Of God: The Arian Controversy 318-381 (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1988) p. 386.)

The trinitarian Athanasius was by far the more brutal. "Bishop Athanasius, a future saint… had his opponents excommunicated and anathematized, beaten and intimidated, kidnapped, imprisoned, and exiled to distant provinces." (Richard Rubenstein, When Jesus Became God (London: Harcourt, 2000) p. 6.)

I should flag the reply above with the false Christ - false prophet accusations.

This is my favorite whenever I see a Trinity debate. That grumpy irritated face he gets in the end is so funny.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi New Name,


You: Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
That's not one man, but ppl and Adam was made in the image of Jesus.
Stephen saw Jesus on His right hand.

Me: Adam was made in the image of God. Jesus was not born yet. The Word had not become one with flesh yet (John 1:14). You seem to disregard what “plural majesty” means.

Isa 45:5 I am the YHWH and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else.


You: But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”


Me: Just wondering how Stephen knew that Christ was standing on the right hand of God when God is invisible and doesn’t have hands like we do?

Here is just one of many articles:
What Does The Right Hand Symbolize or Mean In The Bible?

Quote: "Clearly we see that the right hand is symbolic of ruler-ship, authority, sovereignty, blessing, and strength and is significant in Scripture."

 

[Yib2me]

The seven spirits of God IS the holy spirit.

You went from plural to singular for this you have said to be correct you would have had to have stated it this way:

The seven spirit of God IS the holy Spirit.

This is correct:
The seven Spirits of God are seven Holy Spirits that are one in Spirit and truth.

 

[Yib2me]

False. God is a Spirit, but that isn't all He is. Ice is water. But water isn't only ice. It can be liquid, or it can be steam.

If the Spirit of God is not the Father of Jesus the Christ as you have stated then what form of God is the Father of Jesus the Christ?

 

[Yib2me]

False, He was not "made" at all. He always existed.

In what form did he exist?

 

[Yib2me]

I never said God was created, we are talking about Jesus. You do know the definition of firstborn, right?

That would mean that he is not the only one born of God.

True false?

 

[newname]

That would mean that he is not the only one born of God.

True false?

True. The first born with many brethren.

 

[Yib2me]

True. The first born with many brethren.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Yib2me

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Me: That is correct if we follow the spirit of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[newname]

What is born from God can't sin. Our reborn spirit can't sin. But even Paul hadn't achieved perfection yet.

 

[Yib2me]

Hi Yib2me

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Me: That is correct if we follow the spirit of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever follows the Spirit of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


I made it
so you now can believe it.

 

[Truthcomber]

I believed it a long time ago, not just now.

 

[Yib2me]

I believed it a long time ago, not just now.

I think that is wonderful.