and the word after means after!

[kevinlb63]

and the word after means after! and with all the proof below
1 thessalonians chapter 3:1 to 8
1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear!!, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God,
and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ!, to establish! you, and to comfort you concerning your faith!!:
3 That {{no man should be moved by these {{afflictions}}: for {{yourselves}} know that we! are!{appointed there unto!}.
4 For {{verily}}, when we were with you, we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};<<<<< even as it
{{came! to pass!!}}, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your {{faith}},
lest! by some means the {{tempter have tempted}} you, and our labour be in {{vain}}!!!.
6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity,
and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
7 Therefore, brethren, {{we were comforted}} over you in all our {{{affliction and distress}}} by your faith:
8 For now we live!, {{if ye stand fast in the Lord}}.

AS WE ARE NOT OPPOINTED TO WRATH !!!!! WHAT! PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE WRATH IT! IS TALKING ABOUT
IS THE WRATH OF GOD!!!! JESUS SAID WE WOULD SUFFER TRIBULATIONS JUST LIKE THE MESSAGE ABOVE!!AND BELOW!!!
wich is the wrath of the Devil !!!!!
EVEN WE WHO LOVE CHRIST WILL BE PERSICUTED AFFLICTED AND SUFFER TRIBULATIONS.
matthew 24
21 For then shall be {great tribulation}, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be {shortened, there should no flesh be saved: {but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened}.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the {very elect}.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately {after} the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And {then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven}: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

MARK 13:24 But in those days, {after} the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory}}.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together{ his elect }from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

I THESSALONIANS 3:4 For {{verily}}, when we were {{with you}},
we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are {asleep}.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}: the trump of god is the 7th and last!!
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

II THESSALONIANS 2:[3] Let no{{ man}} deceive you by any means:
for that day shall {{{not come}},
except there come a falling away first,
and that {{{man of sin be revealed}},
the {{{son of perdition}}};
[4] Who {opposeth} and {exalteth} himself above all that is called {God},
or that is worshipped; so that he {as God}
{sitteth in the temple of God}
{shewing himself that he is{ God}.
MY FREINDS SITTING IN THE TEMPLE AND SHOWING HIMSELF
THAT HE IS GOD.. MEANS HE IS IN POWER!!!! AND THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! IT IS NOT MY WORDS!!!
AND AFTER MEANS AFTER / AFTER AFERT AFTER
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?

II THESSALONIANS 2:9] Even{ him,} {jesus}
whose coming is{ after } a.f. t. e. r. the working of {Satan}
luke 21 1 thru 36
1 And he looked up, and saw the {{{rich men casting their gifts into the treasury}}}.
2 And he saw also a certain {{poor widow casting in thither two mites}}.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, {{that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all }}:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God:
but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come,
in which there shall not be left one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?
and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name,
saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, {{be not terrified: for these things must {{first come to pass}};
{{but the end is not by and by}}.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall {{ lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues},and into prisons}},
{{ being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake}}}.
13 {{{And it shall turn to you for a testimony}}}.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts,{{{ not to meditate before what ye shall answer}}:
15 {{{ For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist }}}.
16 {{{ And ye shall be betrayed both by {parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends }}};
{and some of you shall they cause to be put to{{ death}}.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your {souls}.
20 {And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies},
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh!!!.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are{ written may be fulfilled}}.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck,
in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people
24 {{And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations}}:
{{and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled}}.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's {hearts failing them for fear}}, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:
for the powers of {{heaven shall be shaken}}.
27 And {then} shall they see the {{Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory}}}.
28 And when these things begin to {{{come to pass}}}, {{then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh}}}.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the {{fig tree, and {{{all the trees}}};
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand}}}.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, {{till all be fulfilled}}.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting,
and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man
there goes your pre rapture ! are you afraid to die for christ ! he died for you ! and so it will be for a lot of us! I love christ and i will die for him. and he told us we would for his names sake!

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

Suffering tribulation

Kevin,
I agree that those who follow Christ will suffer in this life. Scripture is very clear on this subject. You also stated in your post that you are willing to die for Christ. When you said this, I took it to mean that you are willing to physically die for Christ if need be. That is commendable but remember the lesson from Peter when he said that he would never deny Christ. Christ told him that before the **** crows that very morning, he would not only deny Him but would do so three times. Remember the scripture Jer 10:23 & James 4:14-16. The way of man is not is own nor is it within man to direct his own steps. To state that we control our own path (like Peter did) is boasting and all such boasting is evil. Peter thought he could direct his own steps but Christ proved him wrong. It is God who calls and leads us. Every step we take, we take in accordance with the will of God. Fully understanding this concept is a necessary component of becoming a humble servant of God. I hope you take my comments with the love that is intended.

I also wanted to make clear to you that to be a true follower of Christ, we ALL must die - die spiritually that is. Paul died spiritually each day. We too must follow his example and die daily. Our carnal nature (our Old Man) must die and the new man in Christ must grow. Christ said that a corn of wheat will fall to the ground and die, but in turn, it will grow into a fruit producing plant. We too, must and will go through this same process when the Lord calls and chooses us for His Kingdom. We must die spiritually and be born again into a new man in Christ who produces spiritual fruit within us (love, joy, peace, etc.). Christ will live in us and our Old man will die - it is a process. And as you stated in your post, if the Lord calls us to travel this path in this life, we will suffer persecution and tribulation. If we are not suffering in our walk, we are not following - there are no exceptions (Luk 9:23, 1Pet 2:21 & 2Tim 3:12).

May the Lord bless your walk that He has laid out before you to travel, which "in due time" will lead to Him. Perhaps it will include physically dying on His account, perhaps not (as the Lord wills). However, all men will and must die spiritually before our path to Him is complete. That is one path no man can escape.

1Tim 2:4 who will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[kevinlb63]

thanks joe for the post ! and what you say is so! ihave been at death door three times in my life! and i would die!! before i would deny him.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Dear Kevinlb63, there is much benefit to us in suffering with Christ.

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Now all children of God are heirs, but not all are joint heirs; there is a qualifier.

2 Timothy 2:12. "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him . ." What is the alternative? Being denied the right to reign as a joint heir with Christ.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Does this mean that all Christians must go through the tribulation period on earth? We read in Revelation 3:10 of some promised deliverance from the temptation to come upon all the world for patiently keeping the word of God. To me this represents full overcomers having crowns alive at Christ's coming for us in the air.

There were also those of Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. These also are full overcomers having crowns that die prior to Jesus coming for them.

My thoughts.

 

[kevinlb63]

Dear Kevinlb63, there is much benefit to us in suffering with Christ.

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Now all children of God are heirs, but not all are joint heirs; there is a qualifier.

2 Timothy 2:12. "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him . ." What is the alternative? Being denied the right to reign as a joint heir with Christ.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Does this mean that all Christians must go through the tribulation period on earth? We read in Revelation 3:10 of some promised deliverance from the temptation to come upon all the world for patiently keeping the word of God. To me this represents full overcomers having crowns alive at Christ's coming for us in the air.

There were also those of Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. These also are full overcomers having crowns that die prior to Jesus coming for them.

My thoughts.

thank you so much. love in christ!

please read this all the way to the end and then make a judge ment.


{the revelation revealed } please read all the way to the End!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and dont stop!

this is as simpel as i can make it for any one and this is the beginning starting with the #7 and in all
Instances the # 7 has a End result or meaning!! The KJV mentions the #7 391 times!!! lets leave out all the
other numbers!

ok lets start with this!

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days!! and on the 7th day God rested!!!

now for the next!
next
7 seals have a END result
next
7 Vials have a END result
next
7 angels and trumpets have a END result
here is the end result
rev:8:

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
rev:9
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall {begin to sound}, the mystery of God should be

{finished,} as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. {second comeing and final comeing!...........}
rev:11
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound,!!!!!!
{the mystery of God should be finished,} {as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.}
15 And the {seventh angel sounded;} and there were great voices in heaven, {saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;} {and he shall reign for ever and ever.} this is the END!!! second comeing and final comeing!........... there is no one left! on the earth after this time! thay are in the air! the good bad and the ugly you will read about the sheep and goats on down the page!
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned!!!. this is the End the END! now comes christ judgement on the wourld!! on the next line below
matthew 25:31-46 sheep and goats the second comeing and final comeing!........... there are not a 3th or 4th....
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate!! the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the {goats}. The goats are the rest of the world that did not believe in him!! there is no fleash in the presence of christ only spiritual bodys who will be with christ as stated below on his left! .

33 He will put the sheep on his right! and the goats on his left!.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. {the bride}

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,

36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?

38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?

39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,

43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
the {feast} is next! read below
revelation 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the
midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the {supper of the great God};
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of
horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of {all men}, {both free and bond, both small and great}. this is every man and womans body laying on the ground every one!!!!! there is no one left! on the earth thay are in the air! the good bad and the ugly to heaven then after this we will be with christ for a thousand years.
and here is the glory of all after 7000 years again god will rest again untill the thousand years are over.
that is why the #7 means so much!

 

[Romans 8.28]

Kevinlb63, believing I have received the message you are putting forth as pertaining to one coming of Christ, I am not of that opinion though it will not prevent the manner of life I now live for Christ.

If there is a last trump, there will be previous trumps. How can this be? There are seven conditions of the church as judged in Revelation Chapters Two and Three. Starting in Revelation Chapter Four, Jesus takes His own throne in heaven, John is caught up, and there is revealed things to be hereafter from that time of the Lord's Day.

What does John see when he appears there? Jesus on His own throne in Revelation 4:2, Twenty-four elders round about the throne in Revelation 4:4, and Four living ones in the midst of the throne in Revelation 4:6. How did they get there? You do realize there is also a great multitude to be caught up to heaven in Revelation 7:13-14, and a man child is caught up unto God in Revelation 12:5. Dear brother, there seems to be a lot of catching up going on, and at different times.

My thoughts.

 

[kevinlb63]

my pointwas there is not a pre rapture! it is false doctrin! it is not even 200 years old!

the word after means after and jesus said so again and again here is the scripture. please read and see with your eye the word after every one ignores it!


first Thessilonians
4 For {{verily}}, when we were with you, we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}}; even as it {{came! to pass!!}}, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your {{faith}},
lest! by some means the {{tempter have tempted}} you, and our labour be in {{vain}}!!!.
MATTHEW 24:29 Immediately { after} the(( tribulation)) of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And{ then} shall appear the sign of the {Son of man in heaven}:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
<SUP>30</SUP>and then shall appear the sign of the {Son of Man in heaven.} And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and with great glory.

<SUP id=en-KJ21-23963 class=versenum>31</SUP>And He shall send His angels with a great {sound of a trumpet,} and they shall gather together His {elect from the four winds,} from one end of heaven to the other.

MARK 13:24 But in those days, {after} the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory}}.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his{ elect from the four winds,}
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

I THESSALONIANS 3:4 For {{verily}}, when we were {{with you}},
we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are {asleep}.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
rev:11
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound,!!!!!!
{the mystery of God should be finished,} {as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.}
15 And the {seventh angel sounded;} and there were great voices in heaven, {saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;} {and he shall reign for ever and ever.} this is the END!!!

note the trump of god is the 7th and last trump in the book of REv:
II THESSALONIANS 2:[3] Let no{{ man}} deceive you by any means:
for that day shall {{{not come}},
except there come a falling away first,
and that {{{man of sin be revealed}},
the {{{son of perdition}}};
[4] Who {opposeth} and {exalteth} himself above all that is called {God},
or that is worshipped; so that he {as God}
{sitteth in the temple of God}
{shewing himself that he is{ God}.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?

this is a note the 7th trump is! the trump of god.

II THESSALONIANS 2:9] Even{ him,} {jesus}
whose coming is{ after } a.f. t. e. r. the working of {Satan}

 

[jari]

pre-trib is hard to believe because theres so many things pointing to tribulation before the second coming. actually scripture clearly says Jesus comes immidiately After the tribulation. so how to avoid what this the scripture says is beond me.

but it also says to watch so many think we need watch because Lord could come at any moment. but it doesnt say Lord could come at any moment (before tribulation and before sun and moon turn dark and stars fall), its more like we are to watch when the time draws near and the events of tribulation unfold.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,and to stand before the Son of man

and here it says we first need to escape and then stand before Son of man.

so i think we are watching for His return which is date and time always unknown to us but we will still face the tribulation time and also need to watch for the tribulation it self, as well.

 

[kevinlb63]

thank you Jari it just is not biblical i think we as christians should just focus on being better christians and love him until the end and that is all we need to do but when you go to church the preachers jump up and run around saying Quote And thank god! we want be here to go threw it! . if that is the case who is the antichrist going to pursicute the sinners and unbevievers and all the other religions hay thay will have no problem converting thay dont believe in christ there on his side!

 

[Romans 8.28]

My point was there is not a pre rapture! It is false doctrine! It is not even 200 years old!

I had no doubt of your point, and I absolutely do not believe that. Two hundred years or not, much doctrine has been made available through the study of these newer expositors of scripture. The Holy Spirit remains active even today in the line upon line, and precept upon precept of God's truth.

Our thinking will not change one thing in the end times prophesied for us, but I do have a hope you don't seem to of the possibility of being caught up to be with the Lord prior to those of the great multitude who do come out of great tribulation in Revelation 7:13 & Revelation 7:14.

Maybe you can reveal to me who the twenty-four elders present with Jesus when He takes the power given Him at the beginning of the twenty-five hundred and twenty days. How did they get there and when? I would imagine that you do probably know that this point of time is at the beginning of the Lord's Day before judgment falls.

Thanks.

 

[jari]

How did they get there and when? I would imagine that you do probably know that this point of time is at the beginning of the Lord's Day before judgment falls.

maybe they never died in the first place.

(like Enoch, who was caught up)

 

[Romans 8.28]

thank you Jari it just is not biblical i think we as christians should just focus on being better christians and love him until the end and that is all we need to do but when you go to church the preachers jump up and run around saying Quote And thank god! we want be here to go threw it! . if that is the case who is the antichrist going to pursicute the sinners and unbevievers and all the other religions hay thay will have no problem converting thay dont believe in christ there on his side!

I'm not sure that you realize there will be saints that were not taken in the first rapture entering the tribulation but even them are kept. Revelation 9:4. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Those taken are the results of reward of Revelation 3:10, Romans 8:17, and 2 Timothy 2:12. They will reign with Christ as joint heirs, whereas those of Revelation 7:13. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Maybe they never died in the first place.

(like Enoch, who was caught up)

Hi Jari, and I agree. Regardless of how and when they get there it must follow the formula of 1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: and 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The ultimate reward has been realized in these saints. Out of the seven churches judged in Revelation Chapter Two and Three, and notice that only two of them have crowns; Philadelphia representing those alive when Jesus comes for them in Revelation 3:11, Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown., and Smyrna who remain faithful. Revelation 2:10 Ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

The remaining five portions of the church have no such promises.

 

[jari]

Hi Jari, and I agree. Regardless of how and when they get there it must follow the formula of 1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: and 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

actually i meant caught up Before when rest of us are. It says in bible that enoch never died but "was no more".
same thing with Eliah i believe, he was caught up with those charriots.
sorry if i remember the names wrong but you probably remmeber where in referring to?

no i dont think it has to follow any formula except for us maybe.

 

[Romans 8.28]

actually i meant caught up Before when rest of us are. It says in bible that enoch never died but "was no more".
same thing with Eliah i believe, he was caught up with those charriots.
sorry if i remember the names wrong but you probably remmeber where in referring to?

no i dont think it has to follow any formula except for us maybe.

The formula has everything to do with us, the church because that is who it is written to.

Regardless of when John saw the different saints in heaven, they were caught up to get there. I see different groups described in heaven at different times. There are the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:4 with crowns, the four living ones of Revelation 4:6, the great multitude of Revelation 7:14 which came out of great tribulation, the man child of Revelation 12:5 caught up unto God, and we even read of those under the alter in Revelation 6:9.

We even read of those in Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. God is not restricted to what we think is going to happen, and He proves and shows John that in Revelation as he sees different ones arriving at different times, and having different places with Him due to their suffering they had in this present life. The word suffering also means to endure with Christ.

My thoughts.

 

[kevinlb63]

your kind of thinking is already changing all over the us just here in north carolina
this year i know of at least 40+ people that started reading the bible for them selves
and by the holy spirit. i talked to two men and thay looked at me kind of funny
and then thay replayed and said you could not tell us any differant. and then thay said
we had been quoting first thessalonians 4:15-16 and never ones seen where the trump of god had been blown. which signals the end. and the collection of the bride.
all i could say to them is your still going to be with christ in the end and that was all that matters.

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
{asleep}.definition absent from the body present with the loard.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

and by the way there are different groops the dead in christ and then thay who are alive and remain that is a nother blind spot people dot see. thay will say well there is two defferent groops! not realizing thay just read it . the dead in christ and then we who are alive and remain two groops.

 

[jari]

We even read of those in Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Ah good scripture. so we agree that some people go before others. they must have been Holy Lord's people.

 

[kevinlb63]

yes and it says thay were dead the first groop the dead in christ!


see here we go using scriture that dont have any thing to do with the resurrection at the coming of the the loard.
matthew 27:50-53
<SUP>50</SUP>Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

<SUP id=en-KJV-24181 class=versenum>51</SUP>And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
<SUP id=en-KJV-24182 class=versenum>52</SUP>And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, <SUP id=en-KJV-24183 class=versenum>53</SUP>And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
these are the saints that arose with christ at the time of his resurrection! dont use scripture that does not have any thing to do
with the last resurrection!

 

[Romans 8.28]

There are different groops the dead in Christ and then they who are alive and remain that is another blind spot people don't see. They will say well there is two defferent groops! Not realizing thay just read it. The dead in Christ and then we who are alive and remain two groups.

Dear Kevin, there are two resurrections; the first consists of all believers in Christ, and the second are the dead unbelievers. Then there are two groups that exist in the separate raptures (Catching up) of those in the first resurrection. Those with Christ when He takes His own throne will be made up of those that died in Christ, and those that remain until He comes for them in the air. Those of the great multitude rapture during the tribulation will also be made up of those that died as believers in Christ clear back to the beginning of this present Church Age, and those believers that enter the tribulation and are caught up alive to meet them in the air, but it will be at separate times just as John is shown. them.

 

[kevinlb63]

the second resurrection that you speek of is after the thousand years with christ and thay get the old white throne judgment of god and that is the end for them.
ok lets get this stright one thing at a time jesus was the first the second is the dead in christ . and then we who are alive and remain! then the last that are after the thousand years with christ. and thay are not in the book of life the second resurrection is two groops only a few seconds apart.

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
{asleep}.definition absent from the body present with the loard.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. see there is two groops