Amillennialism

[B-A-C]

Over the years, there have been a lot of debates over when the rapture will happen (for some even if there is a rapture). Will it happen pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib?
Everyone has an opinion, but only one of these can be correct.

Another less popular subject, that rarely comes up here on TalkJesus is amillennialism. (vs pre-millennialism). So what does this mean?
There are Christians who believe the millennial reign has already happened. This may shock some of you, it's not widely taught, some churches even say it is a doctrine of demons.

The most direct verses about the millennial reign are in Revelation 20.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Has this already happened? Some say yes (even a few here on TalkJesus). A lot of this has to do with how you interpret Revelation. Revelation is partly metaphorical, partly spiritual only, and and partly literal.
Some believe it is spiritual only. Most do not. But I would like to keep this discussion centered around the millennial reign.

 

[B-A-C]

During the millennial reign, Satan will be cast into a pit for 1,000 years.

Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

This imprisonment of Satan coincides with the millennial reign. This means it happens at the same time as the millennial reign. Many believe the millennial reign to be 1,000 years. They take the Bible literally here.
Other's say the 1,000 years is just a metaphor for "a long time". They say it could mean anything from hundreds of years, to tens of thousands of years.
These people believe Satan is imprisoned right now. A few seems to believe the imprisonment of Satan already happened, and he has been set free again. The Bible does say he will be let loose for a while
after the millennial reign.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

 

[B-A-C]

Another problem with Revelation, is it is hard to tell the chronological order of events. But seemingly sometime before the millennial reign, Jesus will return.
Some call this the second coming (others say it is the 3rd coming, if you count the resurrection as the 2nd coming).

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21; And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Amillennialists believe this has already happened, they believe this is only spiritual. They believe the kingdom of God/Heaven is all around us, and Jesus is reigning here right now.

Most would say something similar to "Don't you believe Jesus is reigning in your heart right now?", "Don't you believe Satan has no power over you right now?"
I would answer yes to both those questions, but I would say Satan still has power over the earth and all un-believers. I would say Satan is still running around causing havoc.

So what do you say? Let the study begin. As always, let us remain respectful of one another.

 

[B-A-C]

If you continue reading past Revelation 20, on into chapters 21 and 22. You see a few more things happen. A "new heaven and new Earth" seemingly take the place of the old heaven and old earth.
Some believe this has already happened, they say it's only spiritual.
A city called the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven. Some believe this has already happened, they say it's only Spiritual and you are already in it (if you are a Christian).
Finally there is the resurrection and the great white throne judgment. None of the amillennialists I have spoken to believe this has happened yet, but maybe there are others that do.

 

[B-A-C]

One of the (many) problems I have with amillennialism, is that when Jesus returns, it says He will rule with a rod of Iron. ( see Rev 2:27; Rev 12:5; and Rev 19:15; )

Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

I take this to mean, when Jesus returns, He won't take any nonsense from anyone. Other religions will be done away with. It says here He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God.
If there is still rampant sin, abortion, homosexuality, witch-craft, pornography, slave-trafficking, and false-gods all over the world, how can this have already happened?

A second problem I have is where the spiritual and the physical world's meet. For example...

Rev 7:16; "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
Rev 7:17; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Does hunger still exist in the world? Does thirst? Are there still tears in the world today? If so... then how can we say this has already happened?

Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

Is there no longer mourning? No longer death? No longer crying or pain? If these things have been done away with, why are they still happening?

 

[B-A-C]

Another problem I have with this is when did Jesus give up the kingdom?

1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

It says here..at "the end", Jesus hands the kingdom back over to the Father. It says he will abolish all earthly rule and authority before this happens.
It says even death will be conquered before this happens.

Again, some say this has happened "spiritually".

Col 2:15; When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
But if it only means spiritually and this has already happened, that means Jesus is no longer ruling, and has given the kingdom back to the Father.

 

[B-A-C]

Some believe this to be a prophecy of the Millennial reign.

Zech 14:5; You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
Zech 14:6; In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
Zech 14:7; For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
Zech 14:8; And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
Zech 14:9; And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

Another possible prophecy about Israel during the Millennial reign.

Ezek 37:21; "Say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
Ezek 37:22; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.
Ezek 37:23; "They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.

Many will say verse 21 already happened in 1948. I agree, but I don't believe verse 23 has happened yet.

Zeph 3:19; "Behold, I am going to deal at that time With all your oppressors, I will save the lame And gather the outcast, And I will turn their shame into praise and renown In all the earth.
Zeph 3:20; "At that time I will bring you in, Even at the time when I gather you together; Indeed, I will give you renown and praise Among all the peoples of the earth, When I restore your fortunes before your eyes," Says the LORD.

Psa 72:3; Let the mountains bring peace to the people, And the hills, in righteousness.
Psa 72:4; May he vindicate the afflicted of the people, Save the children of the needy And crush the oppressor.
Psa 72:5; Let them fear You while the sun endures, And as long as the moon, throughout all generations.
Psa 72:6; May he come down like rain upon the mown grass, Like showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7; In his days may the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace till the moon is no more. ( Rev 21:23; )
Psa 72:8; May he also rule from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of the earth.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

thinking about this thread over the last few days....

one thought was that perhaps due to ignorance, many new doctrines have emerged over the millenniums that are there specifically to try to prove a different take on what and when the reign is or will be, etc.

wondering....
when will every eye see Him? and every knee bow? and every tongue confess Him as Lord?

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

when will every eye see Him? and every knee bow? and every tongue confess Him as Lord?

Good point. I'm not sure, I've usually heard sometime after the resurrection. But this brings up another point.
If the millennial reign is only Spiritual, and we are in it right now, does that mean when Satan is released
he will have power over Christians?

I asked a friend.. "so Satan is imprisoned in the pit right now?"
Their reply.. "Does Satan have power over you right now?"

But Satan is going to be released from the pit at the end of the 1,000 years. ( Rev 20:7; )
Does that mean Satan will have power over me then?
Their reply... "no response".

Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

To me, this verse is talking about the beast during the tribulation, not about Satan after the millennial reign.
What does this have to do with every knee bowing, and every tongue confessing? ( Isa 45:23; Rom 14:11; )
Because when Satan is released from the pit (after the millennial reign) he will raise up a great army ( Rev 20:8; ) numbered like the sand of the sea.
It would be difficult to count the grains of sand around the ocean.
If all these people are under the authority of Satan and obeying him, then obviously they aren't bending the knee to Jesus yet.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again B-A-C,

which ever way i look at it, i can't say that the 1000 year reign (of Christ) has been (and gone?) or started, if i look briefly around the world or through history.

Perhaps i am missing something?


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

which ever way i look at it, i can't say that the 1000 year reign (of Christ) has been (and gone?) or started, if i look briefly around the world or through history.

Agreed.

Rev 1:7; Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

When did "every eye" see Him return?

Acts 1:9; And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10; And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Acts 1:11; They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Jesus physically ascended to heaven in a flesh body. He will return the same way. When did this happen?

Luke 24:39; See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
Luke 24:40; And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

When did Jesus rule the world with a rod of iron? Are there still unbelievers and other religions in the world? If Jesus is here ruling, why are they still here?

Matt 24:26; So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

When Jesus returns it won't be some secret clandestine thing that only a select few know about. Every eye will see Him.