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A Serious Question!!!!!

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Please think long, and hard about your answer,please use scriptures based upon why you believe you answer is the correct one. Ready?? Hope you are sitting down for this one!! Rom 4:8 and 1 Peter 4:8 please look upon this, and then answer this question! If a believer betrays another believer can they be forgiven?? Please remember Judas here before you answer!!( Matt 26:24!!!) For unbelief, true unbelief betrays! Yes?? or No?
 
Loyal
Matt 18:21; (up to 490 times.. or more)
Matt 18:35; (your forgiveness depends on this )
Luke 17:3; (if he repents).

Mark 3:28; ( all sins forgiven except one) ( Matt 12:31; )
 
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here is the example brother Bac, a person who was a non believer,became one, to which many rejoiced with him,he thought of going to his new found pastor to confess some sins according to James 5:16 he was told by the pastor that it would be private,but 3 days later half the church was coming up to him, asking him the sins he had confessed!! He left the church betrayed! By a so called believer! now i saw your scriptures which are very good,however, if a brother or sister believes themselves to be betrayed,even as Jesus was by Judas,Rom 4:8 and you other scripture hold no effect,did they for Judas?? That is my problem is how i must deal with what this brother is saying.He has a most valid point as you see. But thanks so much for your view!! I understand this,just not sure he will.
 
Loyal
The pastor was in the wrong. He did betray another's trust. This is especially bad as a shepherd of the flock.
The pastor needs to confess and repent and ask for forgiveness.
But he still needs to be forgiven... no matter what. Matt 18:35; is still in effect.
All of mankind betrayed Jesus. Did he forgive them? Luke 23:34;

I personally feel even Judas could have repented. But he never did.
 
Active
Ah brother Bac!!! Luke 23;34,but Judas did know!!!The one who betrayed him did know! As for those who put him on the cross, agree!! They did not know what they were doing, because they did not know or believe that Jesus was, and is, our Savior to start with! hehe Next point you made, If Judas would have repented!!There is a excellent point!! that one helps greatly!

So if one repents of betraying another,they can receive forgiveness! This is an interesting point! Another good point you made is our defination of what being betrayed is and being denied is, as Peter did,they are not the same to me,for all disciples denied him!!( Matt 26:56) Jesus was only betrayed once,he sure was denied plenty of times! It is just brother that scripture seems clear to me saying that person should never had been born,leading to no way of escape from one who betrays! No matter what scripture says about forgiveness of other sins.

BUT!! I sure could be wrong,I am studing greatly upon this! Like in all scripture it is most important for me to have every fact be confirmed by the testimony of at least two other scriptures!!( 2Cor 13:1) So I will continue to dwell upon what you have said so well, and upon the point many others are making! Thanks again brother for taking the time for me!!
 
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RJ

Romans 4:8 God said he would look at your sin no more. If you are a Born Again Christian, God does not hold your sin against you.
Peter 4:8, Love covers a multitude of sins. it does not say all sin; Jesus tool care of that!
Matthew 26: 24, Judas did not believe, this is the unpardonable sin or blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which are not forgiven!
If a believer betrays another believer can they be forgiven??
All sins, except Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven: Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."
 
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hehe RJ sure Judas believed!! ( Acts 1:23-26!!) In fact Judas was an apostle!!! Not just a disciple! So I do not understand your statement bro. sorry. You cannot betray someone who has not trusted in you in the first place.
 
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Staff Member
Greetings,

Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Do we read what we want to follow, according to the speak of men?

4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Matthew 27:4+5

Bless you ....><>
 
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RJ

You cannot betray someone who has not trusted in you in the first place.
hehe, I would rather believe it was easier to betray, if you where never a true believer in the first place. Judas committed the "unpardonable " sin!
 
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Nice RJ!! I agree, hence why it is much more painful when betrayed by someone who placed themselves among believers. Or like minded. Hence just how far Jesus love extents to all of us!! Knowing who he really was, and what he intended to always do, yet love him in spite of that??? WOW Most would just avoid the issue all together!! Good point brother!
 
Member
I hope this helps, God bless:

If a believer betrays another believer can they be forgiven??

Genesis 50:17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

Luke 6: 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 17: 3 ¶ Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Matthew 18: 21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Matthew 18: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11: 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
 
Active
Upon all these fine scriptures, let us look at a second example other then matt 26:24 of a sin which leads or can lead to instant death, Acts 5:1-10 You all know this story of Ananias and Sapphira! Now we have not one, but two example of Betrayal. In effect, and this is just something to consider is all, betrayal is conceived into a number of abominations, lets look and see what those are shall we? Proverbs 6:16-19 Haughty eyes, which means arrogant or disdainful,not clear this fits at all to the two examples,so we will give them both a pass on this one. Well LOL at least I will.

Because this is not clear at all in the two examples.Next a lying tongue. OH OH!!! Both fit in this one,for Judas lied to Jesus,and Ananias and Sapphire lied to Holy Spirit in Peter!! strike one for both!

Next, hands which shed innocent blood! Judas action did lead to the shedding of innocent blood in Jesus,strike 2 for him,For Ananias and Sapphira no innocent blood was shed,so they get a pass.2-1 the score so far.

Next A heart which devises wicked plans!! Oh OH!! Both get a strike on this one! Judas looked to force Jesus hand,and Ananias and Sapphira looked to withhold a portion of the land in wages!!( acts 5:3) and in verse 3 satans name is even used! Judas still leads by 1, 3-2

Next Feet that run rapidly towards evil.Well Judas ran to the priest for 30 pieces of silver,so a strike to him,Ananias and Sapphira it is not spoken as if they ran towards it,so I will give them another pass. 4-2 now. Some could give judas a pass on this also, but I won't lol

Next verse 19 A false witness who utters lies! A no brainer here for both!! 5-3

Finally, And one who spreads strife among brothers! Judas did spread strife,because An Apostles later had to become named for his betrayal!!Talked about in Acts 1:23-26) Matthias. Ananias and Sapphira did spread strife from the result of there lies!( Acts 5:11) score 6-4 So among the many fine scriptures HALLyson talked about,and many we all know ourselves,the point in betraying causes an effect that no forgiveness can take hold of. here are 2 cases! Now the point!! I know like you all do that forgiveness are for those who repent! In these two case neither did,or could!

I say could, because Judas was possessed and hung himself,and you could say Ananias and Sapphira were also, because Satan himself filled both of there hearts with a great lie! Hence why judgement for both was so quick! Something else most interesting,both claimed to be believers!Judas an apostle and Ananias and Sapphira both followed in what the rest did in Acts 4:12-13 Now as they! Ananias and Sapphira were by most concerned to be part of they. There great sin is found in Acts 5:4! Not in keeping part of the proceeds was the sin, but rather about lying in how much of the proceeds they received! SO!!!

IF a believer betrays another,there is little time to become forgiven if at all it seems brothers and sisters! This is not designed to doubt forgiveness at all, it is designed to consider just how bad betrayal truly is! My study upon these two example,has caused me for sure to understand just how terrible betrayal is!! And to encourage all my brothers and sisters to never become caught in this horrible action! For in both cases judgement is swift! And the pain it can cause another can also last for a very long time. I hoped you all have enjoyed this small look at this study! Blessing all!!
 
Member
Betray | Definition of Betray by Merriam-Webster

This is not designed to doubt forgiveness at all, it is designed to consider just how bad betrayal truly is!

Of course betrayal is bad! But doesn't all sin, when it is finished, bring forth death? Are not all sinners deserving of death? Is it not our repentance, and faith in Christ Jesus save us? Is Judas in Hell? (I am not saying I know, your post has just inspired some questions and studies of my own).

James 1:1212 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

For want of money, Judas betrayed our saviour. Jesus said "woe" to him that betrayed the son of man, and it would be better if he had not been born. Jesus didn't say "he will burn in hell for eternity". (And Jesus was quite elaborate, and specific about Hell in his teachings). Also, I find it quite intriguing that Judas' name has not been blotted out of our bibles. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
In studying about the book of life (a very interesting topic), I also noticed that the names in said book have been included from the foundation of the world. This intrigues me, when I think of Jesus' parable about the rich man in Hell and the beggar in Heaven. (Luke 16:19-31) Last year when I studied this particular passage, I wept because in that story, we never learn the name of the rich man in Hell. His name has been blotted out of the book of life. As earnestly as that man called unto Abraham, there was a great gulf that divided Heaven from Hell, and it was impossible for him to cross. Jesus loves all sinners, including Judas, I think. He broke bread with him as he was knowingly being betrayed. Judas' role had to be so that scripture might be fulfilled.


Let us look at this: the greatest betrayal in the bible:

Matthew 17: 22 ¶ And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: 23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Matthew 20: 17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Matthew 26: 1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 26: 20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve. 21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. 22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I? 23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me. 24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. 25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

Matthew 26:47 ¶ And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. 49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him. 51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Matthew 27: 3 ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. 7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. 8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.


IF a believer betrays another,there is little time to become forgiven if at all

I stick by my previous sentiments that we should try to find forgiveness in our hearts for those who sin against us (as hard as that can be in many cases), as we will be forgiven by God accordingly. Thankfully, true and lasting forgiveness comes from "God only."

Mark 2: 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.




Thanks for the post. It really got the gears turning this morning! God bless!
 
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Sister HALLyson,it is rare I am impressed by the Spirit filled thoughts of others,and by the kindness I know you have shown to the household of faith!( Heb 6:10-12) What we can say about Judas is that he cannot be in heaven.For as the word says, it would have been better had he never been born! Not good!! In Acts 1:25 the word says that Judas went to his OWN place,a place where Jesus does not dwell in, for if Jesus did dwell in the place,then Judas would not go to a place by himself.

As I myself had had some experience in the Spirit realm, there are 3 things to consider being in the Spirit realm I have noticed.1. Color is much brighter and bolder in this realm,2. Sound is much more distinct and clearer,and 3 smell, the aromas which dwell here come from different fragrances hence why it is forbidden to go there on your own! Led by Holy Spirit in this realm is the only way I travel!! LOL

I have gone there on my own before Jesus with very different results!! Led by Holy Spirit in this realm I have smelled the wonderful fragrance of what I call victory!( 2 Cor 2:14-16) Even Jesus himself has a aroma about him.I cannot describe the fragrance though. lol It is correct to always forgive others ourselves! I just wanted to point out, that even in forgiveness ,a consequence can also be attached to it!( Col 3:25)

This consequence is somewhat talked about in Rom 12:16-21) Please take note of verse 20! It is not up to me to judge another,my role is as you so well quoted from the Word himself to forgive! The law of the Spirit realm, holds true also for our realm on earth,and it does not matter whether a person is a believer or a doubter! ( Gal 6:7-10)

Notice please verse 8,this is Col 3:25 brought into the light! there is no way around God's truth,even for those who have so much kindness in there hearts,which is pure love such as you have! I did not make the rules sister,i just follow after the rules given hehe I have in my own life tasted consequence in being forgiven myself!

Example! In my first year in the Lord I was working for a man in a hardware store,he was not a pleasant fellow,he also was a thief! Upon watching this man for several months and the others who were stealing from the company,my own life was in need of more money at home.Upon praying to the Lord,I was told the following.It is a sin to steal,however in this case your family has great need,and you are working to provide this need,so in this case, it is all right to take what your family needs!( John 10:10) and 1 John 4:1!!!! So I did!

Family was doing a whole lot better! Temptation entertained long enough bears terrible fruit! And even worse then this,is that it causes the mind to become dull to just how much one will steal! Within 3 months instead of just stealing a 20 now and then, I was stealing 100 dollars a day! 3 months after this the owner of the place came in,he could not understand how his loses became so great!

Upon everyone getting fired for theft,I prayed to the Lord to find a new job, and to repent of my stealing with an explanation of course!! LOL I went to church that night, very sad for what had happened to me,but not sorry for what I had done!! can you imagine?? The pastor full of Holy Spirit took me in his office to explain to me what the Lord told him about me.HE TOLD HIM EVERYTHING!!! Why I thought the Pastor would be happy with me I sure gave a whole lot more to him during this time!! LOL

There was no need to tell him what I had been doing for so long! I thought! Long story short. Not only did I lose all I had stolen, but all I had purchased from stealing I lost! And even more then that!! Family was really upset with me,and I was upset at God because I had believed what I thought he told me!! LOL But Jesus never told me!!! the devil did!

The enemy has two sides to himself as well,first he steals and robs you, then he lies about how he took it!!( John 8:44!!) I repented of course,but suffered a great consequence because of my own lusts and stupidity! I learned a great lesson of just how important it is to stay in the word daily, and to study to show oneself approved!!( 2 Tim 2:15!!) I was corrected!! And the Lord was most wonderful aiding me to receive another job, and I being so thankful to the Lord, paid back the owner all I had stolen in one year's time.For I promised the Lord I would! And it took that long for me to repay him for my stupidity! I am sorry this is a lot longer then I had intended sister,but the Lord wished for me to speak upon this example for others who may also have been tempted the way I was. Forgiveness is wonderful and most real,but sometimes a consequence can also arrive and the consequence has just as much purpose as forgiveness,I never did that again!! Blessing to you sister, and stay in the Word!!! amen!
 
Active
There is an "Obligation to the Brotherhood" clearly laid out in the scriptures;

If self is at "odds" with a brother; (that brother does something that does not line up with the fruits of labor in the Lord), then self goes to the brother in private first, and states his concern.
If thy brother receives thee and repents, you have gained your brother.
If thy brother does not receive thee, you take a couple members of that body with you; so that every word be established.
If thy brother receives thee and repents, you have gained your brother.
If thy brother still does not receive thee, you take it before the congregation.
If thy brother receives thee and repents, you have received thy brother.
If thy brother still will not receive thee, woe unto him; for it is better that a millstone be put upon his neck and cast into the sea.

The weight upon the man, in the wrong, is extreme. It is very sad to watch if he does not repent.
He withers away like a flower that falls from its stem. God will remove him and give the pulpit to another. The Lord comes quickly.

If you love your brother, as Christ loved us, you will not leave your brother in the sins of gossip and backbiting; you will tell him of it and tell him to repent. If he humbles himself and asks your forgiveness, forgive your brother; now pray with your brother to God, that God forgive him.

All praise, glory and honor be unto God. Amen
 
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RJ

IF a believer betrays another,there is little time to become forgiven if at all it seems brothers and sisters!
Well, here I am again and I must disagree:oops:
Brother, we were forgiven some 2000+ years ago on the cross! Actually, before that, before the foundation of the universe!
 
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