A Pentecostal Phenomenon?

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings brothers and sisters

What is your understanding of being 'Slain in the Spirit'

Are there any scriptures that support it at all ?
I don't know of any

Or is it just a false charismatic pentecostal phenomenon?

Just adding in here....I am not criticising in any way but just seeking others viewpoints and a better understanding.

Thank you


I thought I would be cheeky and tag some of you Bible Study regulars as I would really value a few thoughts on this
@B-A-C @RJ @Chopper @amadeus2 @waggles @Christ4Ever
@Br. Bear @Thiscrosshurts @NetChaplain

 

[amadeus2]

@Fragrant Grace I have spoken [and still do daily] in unknown tongues! I have danced [and still do as the Lord moves me] onto the Lord! I have run for the Lord [and still do]. All of these things have over many years been, I believe, of God and in accord with His Spirit in me.

I have been healed of physical illnesses by the Lord!

In my dreams I have danced on the ceiling for the Lord in the Spirit.

In my dreams I have been lifted up and flown before God as an eagle flies in the Spirit!

However, I have never, that I recall, been 'slain in the spirit'! But...?

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?" I Cor 12:29-30

The answers to Paul's questions are "No", not all!

Because I haven't been slain in the Spirit of God, doesn't mean that no one else has!

Whatever we need to do, if we follow the lead of the God's Spirit, will we not do it?

Whatever we do not know, if we have a need to know, will we come to know it by following the Spirit of God?

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5:38-39

There are, indeed, spirits ready to lead us along pathways away from God, but, if we are trusting the Lord fully, there is no danger. How can there be danger for anyone who is on the Lord’s side?

“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” Rom 8:31

On the contrary, if we are too cautious, we will quench the Spirit of God that desires to work in us to make us what He wants us to be. We, alone, cannot make ourselves into anything good, but God working in us can. However, each man does have the power given to him by God to limit God, Himself!

“Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.” Psalm 78:41

Any one, who arbitrarily condemns or even criticizes others for their ways of worshipping and surrendering to God, needs to re-think their own position. God made each and every one of us. Each and every part of us can and should be used to glorify God as He directs, rather than as any man directs, no matter what seminary he attended, or what letters appear in front of of after his name.

There are false tongues and there are false manifestations of God's Spirit, and when we recognize them as such they should be rejected, but we should not reject them simply because they are outside of our experience or are not in strict accord with certain doctrines we may consider essential. If they are wrong according to God, will they not indeed come to nought?

Give God all of the glory always!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Thank you for your answer @amadeus2

It made a lot of sense. Thank you for taking time to explain your understanding.

I am prompted by your post to add a note to my original post....to emphasise my wish for people's thoughts and understanding of the concept...my words are not intended as a criticism.

Thank you again brother

 

[Waggles]

Or is it just a false charismatic pentecostal phenomenon?

Yes, that is my understanding of it.
Sorry to be blunt, but it is charismatic hoo-haa.

I have seen that simple obedience to the word of God is the hardest act of compliance that any person or church can fulfill.
Recently, our Pastor Jock (Spirit-filled since the early 1950s) gave a powerpoint presentation on the history of Pentecostalism over the
last 100+ years (1880s > 1901 the Holiness/Temperance Movement & Divine Healing: 1901 > 1920s first "Pentecost" churches & great Revivals: and
going on decade by decade through to present day).

The history of Pentecost is not constant nor stable. Most churches and ministries start of with great enthusiasm with believing Mark 16: 15-20 and the Book of
Acts. But invariably personalities and the desire for personal "spiritual" experiences corrupt the discipline of simply doing it by the word of God.
Submitting to the doctrinal teachings of the epistles by the apostles [setting out the rules and doctrines for the proper conduct of the Spirit-filled Church]
gets replaced by charismatic teachings and doctrines inspired by pastors who believe in their own thoughts and egos.

I have seen YouTube videos showing congregations dancing and cavorting in the aisles. I have seen the word of God replaced by praise and worship music,
and by emotional outbursts. People fainting. People bursting out in song, or rolling on the floor. This is not in line with the Scriptures.

The Word of God is straightforward and describes unambiguously the process for being born again by water and the Spirit.
Repentance - coming back to God, understanding the need for salvation in Jesus...
Water baptism by full immersion [at an age of understanding, not infants] this is a Biblical commandment.
The New Testament from the gospels to Jude clearly command water baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Confessing one's faith in the gospel.
Seeking to receive the Comforter, seeking to be infilled by the Holy Ghost - to be baptized in the Holy Ghost with the ONLY Bible evidence given:
speaking in other tongues [as Jesus himself declared].
The epistles bring teaching and sensible guidelines to the Churches of the 1st century. Given that Pentecostalism was a totally new experience and quite
different from the rigorous legalistic constraints of 1st century Judaism. Christians became FREE from legalistic religion and the burden of hundreds of
laws governing everything in their lives. Unfortunately, this liberty given by the New Testament Covenant has proved to be a source of doctrinal confusion
and hoo-haa in "Pentecostalism." Strict obedience to the word versus the freedom to experiment with the spiritual.

When the church at Corinthians got out of order and began to descend into a circus of competing charismatic experiences and sinful excessives, Paul
wrote to them twice and brought about correction and proper conduct. All the epistles are written to give instructions unto right behaviour and understanding
as to what being made free and set at liberty by the Spirit is all about. Temperance, being sober, overcoming the flesh...

In the Revival Fellowship we have a practice at our meetings of inviting up members to give their testimonies in how they came to receive the gospel and to
be born again. Everybody gives testimony to their water baptism and to receiving the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in other tongues.
Then usually immediate healings from whatever troubled them at the time (some have longer lists than others).
But it is always about learning to grow in obedience to the word of God [the Scriptures] and in growing in the righteousness of the the Lord through the work of the
Holy Spirit. We talk in our testimonies of "walking in the Spirit" and in "walking with the Lord."

As for being slain, that only applies to the old previous person who was buried in the waters of baptism.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Waggles]

This is the public testimony of being born again by water and the Holy Spirit as given by a young Australian Aboriginal man, named Elmore.

I basically grew up out bush in Central Australia and thought I had a belief in God. So I grew up culturally, traditionally, knowing the bush, but I always felt that there was something missing in my life.
My aunty and cousin came to the Revival Fellowship in Alice Springs. I did go to a meeting a few times, and I remember I got baptised in year 2000 and I prayed to receive the Holy Spirit.

A year later, I got very sick. I thought somebody cursed me through witchcraft of the Aboriginal culture. The doctor at the Alice Springs Hospital said I had a psychotic episode. I went to a lot of witch doctors but they couldn’t do anything.
I was invited to a meeting where they told me that the Lord would heal me. I began to understand who God was and what He wanted to do in my life. I didn’t understand English fully so I prayed for understanding and I realized I was speaking in God given tongues just like the Bible says.

The next morning everything was completely different. The Lord healed me completely from whatever it was - psychotic episode or witchcraft.
The Lord gave me confidence and faith to believe that He can actually do what He says in the Bible and there’s proof to back it up. He gave me an apprenticeship and I was awarded ‘Apprentice of the year S.A’ in the NAIDOC week awards for Aboriginal people.

Without the Lord God working every day in my life I would still be living a miserable life out bush. I thank the Lord God for giving me His Holy Spirit because through the spirit of God everything became possible, and that is the most important part of my life now.

ELMORE, Adelaide, South Australia

 

[Coconut]

I have seen that simple obedience to the word of God is the hardest act of compliance that any person or church can fulfill.

That is a profound statement. It stands as TRUTH among a multitude of words.

I was born and raised on a United Pentecostal Church pew...(long ago and far behind me) ...I have seen a lifetime of "hoo-haa"...and all I have to say is, tho certainly I can worship my God in song and dance ( even with delight and laughter) if I so choose, for I am FREE to do so, it is certainly no evidence of His attendance to my performance or of His pleasure as many would declare. Disobedient children often ignore the work for the play...maybe the hills are alive with the sound of Heavenly music...or maybe what Heaven hears is the noise of children trying to drown out His voice...


<< 1 Corinthians 2 >>
The Holy Scriptures (Jubilee Bible 2000)
1And I, brothers, when I came to you, came not with puffed up speech or wisdom to declare unto you the testimony of God. 2For I judged not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. 4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith should not be founded in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6For we speak perfect wisdom of God, and not the wisdom of this age nor of the princes of this age, that come to nought, 7but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages unto our glory, 8which none of the princes of this age knew (for had they known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory). 9But as it is written, That which eye has not seen nor ear heard neither has entered into the heart of man is that which God has prepared for those that love him. 10But God has revealed this unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the things of man, except the spirit of man which is in him? Even so no one has known the things of God, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that God has given us. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but with doctrine of the Holy Spirit, jointly fitting spiritual things by spiritual means. 14But the natural man does not perceive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15But he that is spiritual discerns all things, yet he is discerned by no one. 16For who has known the understanding of the Lord? Who has instructed him? But we have the understanding of Christ.

 

[Hekuran]

By nature I'm a sceptic, and a lot of what I see gives me good grounds for scepticism.

But I would be very cautious about making a universal statement about being slain the spirit being false. First, the existence of a counterfeit does not invalidate the genuine. There are fake banknotes in circulation: that does not mean that there is no such thing as a genuine banknote.

I think the phrase 'slain in the spirit' is a poor one. Maybe the John's description in Revelation 1 of being 'in the Spirit' would today be described as 'slain in the spirit'

The biblical test to apply is that of the fruit of the spirit. Seek wisdom: for example, does being 'slain in the spirit' lead a person to greater love for God and for their neighbour? If so, we can rest content. If not, beware!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Thank you so much @wiggles and @Coconut for sharing your knowledge and experience.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

The biblical test to apply is that of the fruit of the spirit. Seek wisdom: for example, does being 'slain in the spirit' lead a person to greater love for God and for their neighbour? If so, we can rest content. If not, beware!

Yes I agree.

Thank you for your response @Hekuran

 

[B-A-C]

I am always hesitant to say something is of the Spirit, or not of the Spirit. The Pharisee's accused Jesus of casting
out demons because He had a demon in Him Himself. Jesus's answer to this was to tell them the unforgivable sin. ( Matt 12:24-32; )

Still, having said that.

Why were the gifts of the Spirit given? 1 Cor 14:12; 1 Cor 14:26; say it was for the edification of the church "body".
I can see how healing would help people in the church.
I can see how discernment of Spirits could help people in the church.
I can see how a word of knowledge could help people.
I can see how a word of wisdom could help people in the church.
I can see how prophesy could help people. (1 Cor 12:8-10; )
I can even see how tongues can be a sign for unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22; )
I can see how teaching could help people in the church.
I can see how helping and serving one another can help the church. (1 Cor 12:28-30; )

I myself don't exactly see how being "slain" in the Spirit edifies the church in any way.
But I suppose it's possible.

I've heard this verse connected with it.
Eph 5:18; And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

I have heard some churches even have things like uncontrollable (very loud) episodes
of "laughter on the Spirit", and even some people "barking like dogs in the Spirit".
I am less convinced this is from the Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

Another thought just came to me.

A phenomenon that happens with many Roman Catholics is seeing apparitions of "The Virgin Mother" (Mary).
I've seen dozens of pictures on the internet, where the image of Mary was in the shape of a cloud, or in a piece
of toast, or even in a potato. I've seen some of the images, and I suppose some of them could look somewhat
like a woman. But why are these people looking for the image of Mary rather than the image of Christ?

It's much the same way with the manifestations of the Spirit. I myself am Pentecostal. But I think what
happens in some Charismatic churches, is that people begin to worship the manifestation of the gifts of the
Spirit. I've been in church services, where it'll be OK if Jesus/God shows up... but all that really matters is that
we talk in tongues, give some word's of wisdom... and maybe all "get slain" in the Spirit. Is this all really for
God's glory? Are we worshiping God, or are we worshiping the power He gives us?

In Acts 8; Simon wanted this power so bad he was willing to offer money to get it. (Acts 8:18; )
In Luke 10:17-20; the 70 were happy they could do miracles and cast out demons... but Jesus told
them, this isn't the thing that should cause you to rejoice.

 

[Curtis]

You might want to ask the Apostle Paul about his experience on the road to Damascus when he encountered Jesus.

There are many instances in the Bible of people falling down in the presence of God. Notice, they don't fall down in the presence of the Devil.

Rev 4:9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the One sitting on the throne (the One who lives forever and ever),
Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the One sitting on the throne (the One who lives forever and ever). And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,
Rev 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For You created all things, and they exist because You created what You pleased."

Looks like a pretty repetitive action going on here when the living beings give Glory and honor to him who sits on the throne, all the twenty four elders fall down to him who is sitting on the throne.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Interesting post Dear Sister @Fragrant Grace!

I thought first the need to define as least generally what is "Slain in the Spirit". Came across this one which seems plausible having not had the experience myself.

Definition: Slain in the Spirit or slaying in the Spirit are terms used by Pentecostal and charismatic Christians to describe a form of prostration in which an individual falls to the floor while experiencing religious ecstasy. Believers attribute this behavior to the power of the Holy Spirit.

Here are some examples of Biblical instances that one might consider or can be attributed to "Slain in the Spirit" experiences.

And Balaam raised his eyes, and saw Israel encamped according to their tribes; and the Spirit of God came upon him. Then he took up his oracle and said: "The utterance of Balaam the son of Beor, The utterance of the man whose eyes are opened, The utterance of him who hears the words of God, Who sees the vision of the Almighty, Who falls down, with eyes wide open: Numbers 24:2-4

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. Revelation 1:17

Some verses just suggest at this.

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" Act 9:3-4

Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so [was] the appearance of the brightness all around it. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw [it], I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking. Ezekiel 1:28

Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: Genesis 17:3

So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the LORD stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face. Then the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet, and spoke with me and said to me: "Go, shut yourself inside your house. Ezekiel 3:23-24

I'm with Brother Amadeus that any attempt at discrediting this if it is the action of the Holy Spirit would we not be literally fighting against God Himself. Also, if its not of God won't it eventually come to nothing?

"And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; "but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it--lest you even be found to fight against God." Act 5:38-39

The problem is not "Slain in the Spirit", rather how it can be perceived to some as being chaotic in nature. This is not something that Paul who addressed at the end of Chapter 14 in 1 Corinthians that dealt mostly with tongues, but is appropriate for any church to adhere to.

Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Corinthians 14:40

The part that interested me is what is the benefit to be gained by this being "Slain by the Spirit"? We know the gifts of the Holy Spirit and can give account to the good that can come of it to the Glory of God. However, unless the person who is "Slain in the Spirit" awakens with some knowledge outside of just the experience the only gain I can see is an individual one. Which would not necessarily be a bad thing, because I would want to believe that it would make that persons' faith that much stronger. So with such an experience I would also have to believe that it would then be followed by increased works of faith. Who could experience such and not be moved to do even more?

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13

If they now are on fire for the Lord how should we react to them? We might not understand it all, but if you were to ask me it should be to embrace them as Brothers & Sisters in Christ.

But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. "For he who is not against us is on our side. Mark 9:39-40

Once again. Thanks for starting this thread Dear Sister.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@Christ4Ever @Hekuran @Curtis @Waggles @Coconut @B-A-C @amadeus2 @Br. Bear

Greetings again everyone.... I have tagged you because I so value your answers

I would just like to share something I witnessed....the reason for starting this thread.

I attend a pentecostal church on Sundays
It is joyful with freedom of praise prayer and lifting hands in worship

Please forgive my terminology here.....no offence meant to anyone
This church is not a rigid hard line pentecostal church with 'speak in tongues or your not saved type theology'
Neither have I ever seen people 'slain in the Spirit'

However, last Sunday a visiting speaker from Uganda was giving the message.
All seemed relatively mild and calm
Until the end of the service when he called for prayer
His praying was quite loud and powerful and he went round the congregation touching and 'blessing'

The effect was a number of people just fell to the floor and stayed motionless
Not those who I may have judged as being the 'charismatic' type (forgive this comment I am just trying to be honest with my thoughts)

But reserved folks......they just fell, straight to the ground.


This has never happened before......and I am left wondering
What happened?
Was it real?
Why with this visiting speaker?
What power made them fall seemingly unconscious?

 

[Curtis]

@Christ4Ever @Hekuran @Curtis @Waggles @Coconut @B-A-C @amadeus2 @Br. Bear

Greetings again everyone.... I have tagged you because I so value your answers

I would just like to share something I witnessed....the reason for starting this thread.

I attend a pentecostal church on Sundays
It is joyful with freedom of praise prayer and lifting hands in worship

Please forgive my terminology here.....no offence meant to anyone
This church is not a rigid hard line pentecostal church with 'speak in tongues or your not saved type theology'
Neither have I ever seen people 'slain in the Spirit'

However, last Sunday a visiting speaker from Uganda was giving the message.
All seemed relatively mild and calm
Until the end of the service when he called for prayer
His praying was quite loud and powerful and he went round the congregation touching and 'blessing'

The effect was a number of people just fell to the floor and stayed motionless
Not those who I may have judged as being the 'charismatic' type (forgive this comment I am just trying to be honest with my thoughts)

But reserved folks......they just fell, straight to the ground.


This has never happened before......and I am left wondering
What happened?
Was it real?
Why with this visiting speaker?
What power made them fall seemingly unconscious?

I have been a Christian for 40+ years, and on several occasions fallen while being prayed for. Not every minister that has prayed for me has caused this to happen only some. I was teaching at a Church one time, and a lady came up for prayer, and when I prayed for her she fell to the ground. The pastor of this Church came up to me after the service and said that I colluded with her before the service for her to do this, and I received the "left" foot of fellowship, to never return again. I was astounded to this man's unbelief, yet I went on my way rejoicing in what the Lord had done there.
I have been, I guess they call "slain in the Spirit" while at work with nobody around me. I was meditating on a couple scriptures on my lunch hour, and while getting up and walking back to the sales floor I saw very bright flash of light, and immediately I fell to the ground, almost flat on my face. My first reaction at first was to start sobbing for the Lord in an instant gave me complete understanding to what I was meditating on. That was the only time this has happened to me in this fashion.

The Apostle Peter had a similar experience in the book of Acts.

Act 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

 

[Hekuran]

This has never happened before......and I am left wondering
What happened?
Was it real?
Why with this visiting speaker?
What power made them fall seemingly unconscious?

Can't give much of a useful judgement without having being there.

But for what it's worth, my inclination would be to trust that it's from God, unless you have reason to think otherwise. Such things might be manipulation of the congregation, strange teachings, or exaggerated claims that the pastor made about himself.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

But for what it's worth, my inclination would be to trust that it's from God, unless you have reason to think otherwise. Such things might be manipulation of the congregation, strange teachings, or exaggerated claims that the pastor made about himself.

Thank you @Hekuran

Your reply makes sense.
There didn't appear to be any strange teachings nor congregation manipulation.

I have seen some quite bizarre videos in the past where everything appears staged and the congregation seem caughto up in the hype.
Thankfully it was nothing like that.

I trust and know the Lord will make all things clear to me and sense He has me on a learning curve whilst looking into this.

Praise the Lord!

Thanks again for your reply Hekuran

 

[HisFollower]

Paul speaks of being constrained [bound] in the Spirit, yet in the end it turns out that it was only he his self alone that had it in mind by his own zeal to go to Jerusalem, and not by the Spirit: for along the may several warns by the actual Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem, but he wouldn't take heed, thinking that it is the spirit telling him to go to Jerusalem.

And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
(Acts 20:22)
And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
(Acts 21:4)
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
(Acts 21:11)
And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
(Acts 21:12)
Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
(Acts 21:13)
And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
(Acts 21:14)

Note: Notice the comma after the word "ceased": if this comma were not inserted then it would read "we ceased saying" or we stopped telling Paul to not go to Jereusalem, because he would not listen to us, therefore "The will of the Lord be done" as in the matter is in the Lord's hands, because again, he would not listen to us.

The point being that we must always take heed what ideas and concepts come in our thoughts, because many false ideas and concepts are gone out into the world: therefore we ought not to believe every idea or concept, but test the idea or concept, whether it be of God.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(1 John 4:1)

 

[amadeus2]

Why is it that two men with apparently opposite ways can both be pleasing to God?

Why is it one man of God who touches people causes them to be "slain in the Spirit" while another man of God with a similar touch does not?

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matt 11:18-19

This is not to say that any way a man teaches or preaches is OK. What God always looks at is the heart of men. The greatest thing is "charity" [Love] as per I Cor 13:13. When read verses 4 through 7 of the same chapter, we find a description of what charity is. When we read verses 1 through 3 of that chapter we read that many other things that even scripture praises [tongues, prophecy, knowledge, faith, etc.], are without charity effectively worthless.

The hearts of both John and Jesus pleased God in spite of different lifestyles and/or different callings.

When a man of God is being led by the Spirit, he will follow the lead of the Spirit, but he will also act in accord with the way that he is as well and sometimes even he has some wrong ways that haven't been corrected yet. Consider King David called a man after God's own heart and the apple of His eye... yet David was not corrected in some things that we in our day might consider to be in need of correction. How many wives did David have? I haven't made a full count, but not less than seven and that doesn't count his concubines. His tally was certainly less than that of his son, Solomon, but does that make it right? Jesus did not quote NT verses. He quoted or paraphrased or interpreted from the OT.

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain [two] shall be one flesh?" Matt 19:4-5

That means two people, one male and one female. So what happened with David?

Jesus was telling them the exactness of what God would like to see in desired of men in the things of the flesh, but if our hearts are pure in what we know, are we not pure before God in spite of errors in what we don't know?

David's heart was pure with respect to his wives and concubines... even though Jesus shows us a higher Way in accord with God. David wasn't ready for it, but we are or should be because we as individual have more from God available than David did. Solomon was criticized about his wives, not because they were more than one [even though that was also wrong], but because he allowed himself to be led away from what he already knew was right under the law.

We are not to write down a set of rules to live by similar to the 613 rules given by God through Moses to the natural children of Israel in the OT. We are to listen to and follow the lead of the Holy Spirit in us... David, under the law. could not enter into the Holy of Holies as did the high priest once a year. We under the grace and mercy of have available to us a way that each of can enter the 3rd heaven of God. This Way was NOT open yet during David's natural lifetime.

We need to hear what thus saith the Lord and do that, whether it is to be marry a harlot (Hosea 1:2] or to speak in an "unknown tongue" or to be "slain in the Spirit", etc.

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. " John 10:4

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

To be slain in the Spirit or not:

His sheep know his voice.
His sheep follow him.

Who is that is speaking to our hearts? A man following himself or a man following Jesus?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Uganda

But reserved folks......they just fell, straight to the ground.

This has never happened before......and I am left wondering
What happened?
Was it real?
Why with this visiting speaker?
What power made them fall seemingly unconscious?

What I've come to find out from Missionaries or Pastors from African countries is a strength in and of the Holy Spirit. I attribute this to the front line battles being waged there against the enemy. If you were to have a talk with this Pastor and ask him how the enemy is evidenced in his country and Africa in general. You might find that everything from witchcraft/witch doctors to possession are not so strange an occurrence in the every day lives of many in these countries. Evidence of war, pestilence, famine are the devil's play ground. Where you find misery, you will find the Adversary.

Yet, you will also find evidence of great faith and a more frequent witness of the works of the Holy Spirit as reflected in much of the early church. Which seems almost absent to "Western Civilization" in these days. At least as evidenced in the everY day lives of many individuals in the Western Countries.

I'm curious Dear Sister, if you've attempted to talk to those who experienced this? What are their thoughts and or what did they actually if possible to verbalize it, see, feel, sense? Asking them in seeking to know as one Sister to another without judgment/preconceived thoughts would be the best. Just be ready to be asked "Why do you want to know?" and answered with "I don't have the words to describe what it was like" or "I don't know."

Think on this verse in relations to what happens to some: In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; Romans 8:26

When we discuss the Holy Spirit, we are discussing God. How limited are we in quantifying the awesomeness of God? So too, God the Holy Spirit which is talked of less in churches than the other two parts of the Trinity. Maybe, not as it pertains to the association to gifts, but less as it pertains to getting to know Him.

You more than most would hear of the movement of the Holy Spirit, because of going to a Pentecostal Church. You are leaps and bounds ahead of many existing believers who attend churches who don't address Him at all or only in an impersonal way.

I truly hope you are able to find the answers you are seeking. In some way, you just might have to experience it to know for sure. Scary as the thought might be because of the unknown factor and the surety on its rightness. Ask of God and you will be given an answer. Like my wife says concerning God answering us: "Yes, No, Not Now". Always trust that it will be within His will for you to know, regardless of the answer.

Praying for your peace of spirit.
YBIC
C4E
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